RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[Storm Force]

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Rafale is the last & latest most advanced 4 generation fighter in the world. BEATS the block 52 in every aspect you care to mention.

2 engines v one
superior much lower RCS
Pesa RBE2 radar versis MSA APG63
NEW MORE modern weapons arsenal including scalp ASM meteore & mica BVR


This is why in LIBYA its the rafale leading the strike missions over both the F16 & F18 & MIRAGE /TORNADO from NATO

WILL BE A FANTASTIC ADDITION TO THE IAF FROM 2013 onwards

[Pak1Samurai]

rafaele is better then 16 blk52 but blk52 is also gud so also dipend on pilots expirience.

[MastanKhan]

Rafale will prove to be the most superior aircraft of the 4th gen in the existing fleet of aircraft available----. Thois indecision will come back to haunt the paf one more time---dejavu----bitten at the same spot twice---.

Once the details of the capabilities shown by rafale over libya come out----it would be a remorseful day at the paf bases---

[Mo12]

Rafale will prove to be the most superior aircraft of the 4th gen in the existing fleet of aircraft available----. Thois indecision will come back to haunt the paf one more time---dejavu----bitten at the same spot twice---.

Once the details of the capabilities shown by rafale over libya come out----it would be a remorseful day at the paf bases---

Lets not get to ahead of ourselfs here.

Who knows India may pick EF ahead of Rafale.

[notorious_eagle]

Rafale will prove to be the most superior aircraft of the 4th gen in the existing fleet of aircraft available----. Thois indecision will come back to haunt the paf one more time---dejavu----bitten at the same spot twice---.

Once the details of the capabilities shown by rafale over libya come out----it would be a remorseful day at the paf bases---

You are being to optimistic Khan Sahab. So far the Rafale and the Eurofighter have been failures, they are a decade late to the party. Whatever capabilities they offer, American Legacy Fighters provide those capabilities at a lower cost. Rafale and the Eurofighter, even after all the 'Ho Ha' are yet to be fully operational with all their capabilities, most of their electronics are being developed and will be fully operational in a couple of years.

You are also quick to discount China; China might not be as good as the Europeans when it comes to electronic systems in military aviation at the present, but are you willing to bet the situation will remain a status quo in the next 5 years. The rate at which China is catching up in the military field is astonishing, and it makes sense as the Chinese are pouring in billions of dollars and their top tier engineering schools are churning out thousands of aeronautical engineers every year. The latest avionics and weaponry the Chinese develop to arm their 5th Generation Fighters, will be trickled down to their 4th Generation Fighters making them eventually superior to Eurofighter and Rafale. The Eurofighter and the Rafale are probably the last fighter jet aircraft you will see developed by Europe, after that they will likely rely on American Aircraft Manufacturers to fulfil their needs.

[araz]

You are being to optimistic Khan Sahab. So far the Rafale and the Eurofighter have been failures, they are a decade late to the party. Whatever capabilities they offer, American Legacy Fighters provide those capabilities at a lower cost. Rafale and the Eurofighter, even after all the 'Ho Ha' are yet to be fully operational with all their capabilities, most of their electronics are being developed and will be fully operational in a couple of years.

You are also quick to discount China; China might not be as good as the Europeans when it comes to electronic systems in military aviation at the present, but are you willing to bet the situation will remain a status quo in the next 5 years. The rate at which China is catching up in the military field is astonishing, and it makes sense as the Chinese are pouring in billions of dollars and their top tier engineering schools are churning out thousands of aeronautical engineers every year. The latest avionics and weaponry the Chinese develop to arm their 5th Generation Fighters, will be trickled down to their 4th Generation Fighters making them eventually superior to Eurofighter and Rafale. The Eurofighter and the Rafale are probably the last fighter jet aircraft you will see developed by Europe, after that they will likely rely on American Aircraft Manufacturers to fulfil their needs.

My brother Mastan Khan has always fancied the French and their Hardware!!! He does not understand that inspite of being a clear favourite of our current ACM , we cannot afford and will not be able to buy the rafale and maintain it. We just dont have the resources. There is a paper which I posted many a yrs ago form one of the Australian defence analysts which suggested that the UK should abandon the EF and buy F16s, due to cost considerations and clear lack of advantage with regards to capabilities.
You have tried to drop in the chinese option which is not the remit of the argument so i will not comment.
As to the Rafale/vs F16 debate, how many rafales have been bought vs how many F16s? Do you mean to tell me that the Air forces of the world are stupid that they repeatedly compromise their natuional security and go for an inferior fighter under US pressure? Surely that may be the case once or twice but on so many occasions???? makes one think!!!
Personally if in a defensive roleF16s will give the rafale a run for its money any day. Try availing the advantage of a twin engined aircraft in the Indo Pak theatre where 10 minutes and you are sitting in each others laps!! how long does one need toloiter in the environment when both sides have Awacs and good radar cover.
he main weapons of an ACare its Amraams, WVraam, and guns, It does not matter whether you can see eqch other from 400 miles away or not, however stealthy versions might be more helpful. You will only launch Amraams within its effective killing range, which is roughly similar for most Amraams. When you are within range of Wvraam, it is the agility of thew missile on the one hand and the agility of the missile on the orther. therefore it boils down to effective CM which will confuse the missiles.We dont have any evidece to say with any authority that in this role F16s are worse than rafale. When it comes to gunfights, it will be an advantage to a twin engined AC as it can still disengage and limp back to base with one engine. But all in all thisadvantage is minimal .
thgis is the reason I dislike this DICK measuring contest!!! Please feel free to add your views.
Araz

[MastanKhan]

thgis is the reason I dislike this DICK measuring contest!!! Please feel free to add your views.
Araz

This comment doesnot suit the writer.

[Storm Force]

Indians must be pretty stupid

THEY spend 6 months field testing Euro fighter RaFael (F16 & F18 Laest variants with aesa radars)

YET THEY ditch both the American legacy fighters.

how stupid

[khurasaan1]

Surely the answer is simple- Rafale. IAF tested the Rafale and the F16 Blk60 IN SUPER VIPER (the most advanced F16 EVER built so MORE advanced than blk52 with AESA and other tech off the JSF) and picked the Rafale on a technical basis as stated by the MoD so it beat the most advanced F16 the Blk52 surely has no chance right?

Oh and ^^^ it could rise to $15 BILLION+ if IAF exercises option for more than original 126 (a strong possibility given AF/MoD posturing) either way it's more than Pakistan's ENTIRE defence budget for 2-4 years!!

Yes! ure absolutely right about that....

[Storm Force]

Keep singing F16/52 praises.

I CAN GURANTEE NOW 100% The day the IAF sign for either RAFALE OR TYPHOON probably by this year end 2011 pakistanis ON THIS VERY THREAD will screaming blue murder.

ie HOW PAF cannot sit back and let IAF gain such advantage over PAF.

and the funny part nobody WILL SAY get more F16s

THE PAFS fanboy wish list will read

FC20 OR JXX OR J20 OR F35 etc etc.

everybody will just panic and start demanding F22s etc.

it will be hillarious and so damn precictable

[PWFI]

Keep singing F16/52 praises.

I CAN GURANTEE NOW 100% The day the IAF sign for either RAFALE OR TYPHOON probably by this year end 2011 pakistanis ON THIS VERY THREAD will screaming blue murder.

ie HOW PAF cannot sit back and let IAF gain such advantage over PAF.

and the funny part nobody WILL SAY get more F16s

THE PAFS fanboy wish list will read

FC20 OR JXX OR J20 OR F35 etc etc.

everybody will just panic and start demanding F22s etc.

it will be hillarious and so damn precictable

LOOOOOLz
I don't think we need to counter them with aircrafts, they are falling like bullshit, just see how your FUTURISTIC Mig-29 fall down today!! thanks to indian pilots
Some time i really think u r 9-10 year fanboy! i am right?
We are getting FC-20,JF-17BlockII in higher numbers....for what?!!
First sign the deal them came to talk,stop acting like kids,"o i am getting this, i am getting that, mine is best then ur"
Do u now what happen during anatolian eagle exercice, F-16 vs EF2000 ? don't tell me it's ISI "sasich"

[Jungibaaz]

I CAN GURANTEE NOW 100% The day the IAF sign for either RAFALE OR TYPHOON probably by this year end 2011 pakistanis ON THIS VERY THREAD will screaming blue murder.

Why would we do that? IMHO Rafale is superior to F-16 block 52+

ie HOW PAF cannot sit back and let IAF gain such advantage over PAF.

don't worry, F-16 block 52s aren't there to handle MMRCA, FC-20 will be our most potent platform.

and the funny part nobody WILL SAY get more F-16s

THE PAFS fanboy wish list will read

FC20 OR JXX OR J20 OR F35 etc etc.

Wishlist??? we have no wishlist matey, if anything, IAF have a wishlist, forecasting orders as late as 2020, LOL!!
Our latest order is FC-20, it aint no wishlist!!
J-20 or J-XX will be ordered when the time comes.

everybody will just panic and start demanding F22s etc.

it will be hillarious and so damn precictable

[Luftwaffe]

This story has grown old that we can't afford, maintain and buy Rafale. Look around you fools thailand is operating gripens, vietnam is operating SU-27/SU-30 and we are fooling ourself and others telling tales that we are nothing but losers we've ready made excuses for Mirages for Tornadoes for Gripens for Rafale and God knows what will be our next excuses post 2020.

Excuses and excuses is all we have. Days of defensive strategy has changed, You have to look for and hunt down before you become a prey.
Being a small airforce PAF must be both offensive and already a defence air force in nature.

So the excuse of F-16 will give rafale a run for its money any day is nullified it will not and never will, Rafale is two steps ahead of F-16. UK has still has a large order for EF-2000 and never abandoned it that shows the promising future.

Please don't point finger are French and their Hardware, PAF is still flying their old horses in great condition that shows French Hardware out performs even after 35+ Years. Here the word is grapes are sour not becuase you rejected it but because one day someone else will have their hands full of them and your mouths will be wide open once again in grief and sorrow.

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Araz'z post really disappointed me----. Over the years what I have talked about the procurement of major weapons system is to look at what you want to get---in comparison to what the opponent has---. Because at the end of the day---you ain't going to be playing your tricks on yourself----you will have to either go out and hunt down the opponent or defend your space from the enemy's incursion----so at the end of the day---you will be measuring your's against their's.

So, while you are making your purchase, you also have to be concerned that the opponent also wants to get the best for the buck---. Out of the multiple option which two are at the top of your list---if you go for the top best---the opponent will go for the second best---but if the opponent cannot get the top best under any circumstance---then is the top best really the best deal----when the second best is so close to the # 1 choice----. obviously not.

What I mean is that competeing between the F 16 and mirage 2000---on the paper the F 16 was a great deal----but strategically---the mirage 2000 would have been a true coupe de grace on the opponent---because the opponent never had a chance of getting the F 16 27 years ago---and giving the opponent a shot a the second best just killed the advantage that paf had.

Second reason why the mirage----everybody wanted the F 16's---it was a status symbol---a show piece---something to walk with a swagger---but for a practical airforce like the paf----it was the mirage 2000 which was the natural choice---switching over from the mirage 3's and 5's-----.

The F 16 was like a beautiful girl with a thousand and one suiters---she was arrogant---she was ignorant---she was too much immeresd in her beauty---mirage 2000 was like the ugly sister----the nobody wanted but the one which could do it all as good or better than the pretty one----you can fu-ck the face for so long---after a while there are other things that come out---she has other suiters---she is not loyal---she wants to play around---she wants to take your money and do the american thing---run away.

That is exactly what happened with paf----the pretty girl that they got betrothed to----took them right to the cleaners----shoved it right up so hard that the screams of the paf have been heard world wide---.

The french were looking upto the pakistani for taking on the mirage 2000 and they were let down---.

It is extremely ignorant to say that this aircraft the rafale has not sold to anyone----it is not the first time that has happened that a great product has not sold----it is the lack of salesmanship that hindered its sale---french are poor sales people----they can't sell a bottle of water to a beduoin stranded on a hot day in the middle of sahara desert----.

Well---it says a lot about the rafale to be in the top two aircraft in the mrca deal----by beating everything else. So---here is a chance for the paf to re---deem itself---one more time----. It will be one of the two that the iaf choses----the eurofighter or the rafale----they could wish that they could get both of them-----.

Money was not an issue when this aircraft was being assessed in the early 2000's----it was just that paf was mentally not prepared to spend that kind of money on an aircraft----they could not comprehend the need for it----they could not create a scenario where this war on terror would be leading them into----they could not comprehend that there would be no peace deal signed with india by 2011----. 50---75 rafale aircraft in paf standards would have been a great reason for iaf to look at pakistan differently---with some kind of parity---india would have considered to be leaning towards peace overtures a tad bit more than not----a 5 billion dollar + package would have eased some of our current day fears---.

We have so fart lost 65 billion dollars on wot----what is 5 billion more-----but I guarantee it if we had those aircraft in service----our political situation with our opponent would not have deteriorated so much----. So we would have come out ahead-----it is all about understanding the projection of profit and loss under duress and unfavourable conditions.

[drunken-monke]

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Hi,

Araz'z post really disappointed me----. Over the years what I have talked about the procurement of major weapons system is to look at what you want to get---in comparison to what the opponent has---. Because at the end of the day---you ain't going to be playing your tricks on yourself----you will have to either go out and hunt down the opponent or defend your space from the enemy's incursion----so at the end of the day---you will be measuring your's against their's.

So, while you are making your purchase, you also have to be concerned that the opponent also wants to get the best for the buck---. Out of the multiple option which two are at the top of your list---if you go for the top best---the opponent will go for the second best---but if the opponent cannot get the top best under any circumstance---then is the top best really the best deal----when the second best is so close to the # 1 choice----. obviously not.

What I mean is that competeing between the F 16 and mirage 2000---on the paper the F 16 was a great deal----but strategically---the mirage 2000 would have been a true coupe de grace on the opponent---because the opponent never had a chance of getting the F 16 27 years ago---and giving the opponent a shot a the second best just killed the advantage that paf had.

Second reason why the mirage----everybody wanted the F 16's---it was a status symbol---a show piece---something to walk with a swagger---but for a practical airforce like the paf----it was the mirage 2000 which was the natural choice---switching over from the mirage 3's and 5's-----.

The F 16 was like a beautiful girl with a thousand and one suiters---she was arrogant---she was ignorant---she was too much immeresd in her beauty---mirage 2000 was like the ugly sister----the nobody wanted but the one which could do it all as good or better than the pretty one----you can fu-ck the face for so long---after a while there are other things that come out---she has other suiters---she is not loyal---she wants to play around---she wants to take your money and do the american thing---run away.

That is exactly what happened with paf----the pretty girl that they got betrothed to----took them right to the cleaners----shoved it right up so hard that the screams of the paf have been heard world wide---.

The french were looking upto the pakistani for taking on the mirage 2000 and they were let down---.

It is extremely ignorant to say that this aircraft the rafale has not sold to anyone----it is not the first time that has happened that a great product has not sold----it is the lack of salesmanship that hindered its sale---french are poor sales people----they can't sell a bottle of water to a beduoin stranded on a hot day in the middle of sahara desert----.

Well---it says a lot about the rafale to be in the top two aircraft in the mrca deal----by beating everything else. So---here is a chance for the paf to re---deem itself---one more time----. It will be one of the two that the iaf choses----the eurofighter or the rafale----they could wish that they could get both of them-----.

Money was not an issue when this aircraft was being assessed in the early 2000's----it was just that paf was mentally not prepared to spend that kind of money on an aircraft----they could not comprehend the need for it----they could not create a scenario where this war on terror would be leading them into----they could not comprehend that there would be no peace deal signed with india by 2011----. 50---75 rafale aircraft in paf standards would have been a great reason for iaf to look at pakistan differently---with some kind of parity---india would have considered to be leaning towards peace overtures a tad bit more than not----a 5 billion dollar + package would have eased some of our current day fears---.

We have so fart lost 65 billion dollars on wot----what is 5 billion more-----but I guarantee it if we had those aircraft in service----our political situation with our opponent would not have deteriorated so much----. So we would have come out ahead-----it is all about understanding the projection of profit and loss under duress and unfavourable conditions.

One of the most artistically phrased post on this forum..

Thanks and regards