China & Russia need to take action against America.

[r3alist]

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Yes, I was thinking that might be Pakistan's 'samson option'. If we make it crystal clear that, in the event of a NATO attack on Pakistan, we will guarantee a nuclear hit on Tel Aviv, it might give pause to the attackers. It will deepen the alliance between India and Israel, but they are already thick as thieves anyway.

This my friend has been LONG understood, it no doubt forms the basis for much of India and Israels co operation.

In effect we are describing huntingtons clash of civilisations.

Funny how it's come true.

[lem34]

People here are overestimating Russian response to Missile Shield and they are under estimating Russian hate for China and Pakistan...

de Gaulle once said that "Nations do not have friends - they have interests." Russia China and Pakistan will do what is in their interests and if they coincide they will assist each other

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

Russia might leverage this issue for its benefit not for Pakistan sake. America for its part might even make some kind of truce with Russia. Pakistanis behaving as if Russia is confronting against America for their interests. Nope. As long as most free world support America, the chance of usurping America's power would be negligent. These days wars are diplomatic not literal. And America would win them hands down.

I have already stated all nations will do what is in their interests and if interests coincide so be it. We pakistanis and indians need to realise the whole world is more than pakistan and india

[illusion8]

[QUOTE=Aryan_B;2351067]de Gaulle once said that "Nations do not have friends - they have interests." Russia China and Pakistan will do what is in their interests and if they coincide they will assist each other[COLOR="Silver"]

China's interest is hegemony, south china sea, minerals and oil, superpower status and finally to be regarded as USA's equal.

Russia wants to assert itself more with muslim nations and gaining control of the gulf nations, Pakistan is just a small part in its designs not the end game.

For the US, Afghanistan is more important than Pakistan, their interests will be served by a stable AF, same with China, India and Russia they dont want an extremist AF.

India's growth in the region is a concern for China and vise versa, China will try to encircle India and Pakistan can help in tying down India to some extent. India's peace overtures to Pakistan is to negate this.

Believe it or not India wants to be left alone peacefully to continue its growth and develop its citizens.

[gambit]

Big talk, but Pakistan is no Vietnam or Afghanistan.

Pakistan is a nuclear-armed nation, with the 6th largest population in the world. It's on an entirely different level.

Both the Soviets and China could have stationed nuclear weapons in Viet Nam. But why not? Then can we say both countries pretty much had no choice but sit back and let the US run freely in Viet Nam?

Remind me, when was the last time America fought directly with a nuclear-armed nation? The answer is never, even one loose nuke in the hands of anti-US militant hands is too much to bear.

Now this is a laugh. Remind me, when was the last time China fought directly against a nuclear power? None?

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

I have no idea what Israel has to do with this, but it is a fact that America has never started a direct military conflict with any nuclear armed nation.

Neither has the Soviet Union nor China. Do you see how stupid this line of argument can be?

Even North Korea, despite repeated lethal provocations, as well as only possessing a handful of fission devices, was able to scare America off and keep their nukes, while attacking South Korea at their leisure.

No need for US to get involved. The South Koreans can take of their own.

In this scenario, America always works through proxies.

So had China. In fact, when the North Vietnamese petitioned China to send combat troops to Viet Nam the same way the US did, China refused.

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

China & Russia need to take action against America to protect their own interests.

Not going to happen.

[NiceGuy]

So had China. In fact, when the North Vietnamese petitioned China to send combat troops to Viet Nam the same way the US did, China refused

So when ??your habit is lying about North Vietnam??

I think Russia will Not colaborate with China to go against USA , if CHINA get stronger, she will demand to take back Manchus land from Russia again .

[illusion8]

So when ??your habit is lying about North Vietnam??

I think Russia will Not colaborate with China to go against USA , if CHINA get stronger, she will demand to take back Manchus land from Russia again .

Russia will be too hot to handle for China, I doubt Beijing has the nerves to take on Moscow.

[FairAndUnbiased]

Yes, I accept your point but China and Russia have their own issues with each other and third parties. It's not a simple matter of standing up to America. These countries will challenge America only when their core national interests are impacted, as will anybody else. Nobody's going to be a hero and stare down the reigning hyperpower for someone else's benefit.

The last thing China or Russia wants is to ratchet up the tension with the US. Despite fanboi analyses, the US is still immeasurably strong and wields enormous influence around the world. Not to mention that there will be all sorts of opportunists who will ride America's coat-tails just to settle scores with China or Russia.



Yes, I was thinking that might be Pakistan's 'samson option'. If we make it crystal clear that, in the event of a NATO attack on Pakistan, we will guarantee a nuclear hit on Tel Aviv, it might give pause to the attackers. It will deepen the alliance between India and Israel, but they are already thick as thieves anyway.

Looking at the markets right now and recent economic data, the US g-ov-ern-ment is heading for col-lapse within the decade.

Let me just tell you this: US bonds are selling at all time highs. There are no overseas buyers. Americans are unwilling to buy bonds, because they prefer holding on to cash. Yet interest rates are at an all time low, which implies numerous buyers.

Does this picture of: highest prices ever, no buyers, yet extremely low interest rates, look wrong to you? The only possibility is the US g-ov-ern-ment printing money.

Does the price of gold skyrocketing, coinciding with the India-Iran oil for gold trade and China's new precious metals commodities market, look like something to you?

Does China playing both the long and short silver markets, essentially trading worthless USD for physical silver, along with China's currency swaps with 20+ countries, look like something to you?

Does the US's long recession, structural unemployment, structural deficeit and outright fraud in the bond markets look like something to you?

Does a 45% of GDP as wages, but 70% of GDP as consumption look wrong to you?

Does an extremely inefficient urban layout with 160 million Americans driving an average of 1 hour per day, 200 days a year, just to get to and from work, seem wrong to you?

What happens in this situation? Hyperinflation. When the grocery store shelves are empty, you know it is the end.

[SinoChallenger]

We live in interesting times I would like to invite forums members to add their comments. Do you think Russia & China have the foresight to prevent American and Nato from stealing and controlling the world resources? Maybe I am being paranoid? Maybe these Nato wars are about introducing democracy and their way of life?

It's simple, actually.

First China needs to send Pakistan China's most advanced SAMs HQ-16 and HQ-9 (send operators too if required) to protect Pakistan from US airstrikes. China already has troops in Pakistan guarding Karakorum highway. This supply route needs to be extended all the way to Gwadar port.

Then China needs to also beef up Iran's air defenses to protect it from US airstrikes. SAMs + C-803 antiship missiles + Karakorum eagle AWACS + JF-17 should be the "introductory package" for all of China's military allies (including also Burma and Syria). In exchange, China values the geopolitical presence afforded by an alliance system.

Once Pakistan and Iran are fitted with strong air defenses, then China needs to move in assets by land to make Gwadar a functional naval base and possibly deploy a carrier there (post 2012). This naval base will protect the Arabian Sea, and both Pakistan and Iran coastlines. Oil / gas can move from the Persian Gulf to Gwadar and then by land routes or pipeline to Western China. Iran's domination of the Persian Gulf also brings it under the control of our alliance.

Meanwhile, China will turn a blind eye when North Korea, Iran and Syria make nuclear weapons and missiles to threaten US and its allies. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization must be militarized with Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Burma and North Korea joining the SCO. Once the military alliance is settled, the SCO can target and destroy any hostile foe in the region -- Israel, india, arab countries and US forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and UAE.

[T-Rex]

It's simple, actually.

First China needs to send Pakistan China's most advanced SAMs HQ-16 and HQ-9 (send operators too if required) to protect Pakistan from US airstrikes. China already has troops in Pakistan guarding Karakorum highway. This supply route needs to be extended all the way to Gwadar port.

Then China needs to also beef up Iran's air defenses to protect it from US airstrikes. SAMs + C-803 antiship missiles + Karakorum eagle AWACS + JF-17 should be the "introductory package" for all of China's military allies (including also Burma and Syria). In exchange, China values the geopolitical presence afforded by an alliance system.

Once Pakistan and Iran are fitted with strong air defenses, then China needs to move in assets by land to make Gwadar a functional naval base and possibly deploy a carrier there (post 2012). This naval base will protect the Arabian Sea, and both Pakistan and Iran coastlines. Oil / gas can move from the Persian Gulf to Gwadar and then by land routes or pipeline to Western China. Iran's domination of the Persian Gulf also brings it under the control of our alliance.

Meanwhile, China will turn a blind eye when North Korea, Iran and Syria make nuclear weapons and missiles to threaten US and its allies. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization must be militarized with Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Burma and North Korea joining the SCO. Once the military alliance is settled, the SCO can target and destroy any hostile foe in the region -- Israel, india, arab countries and US forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and UAE.

A sound policy to counter the anglo-saxon and the hindi-zionist hegemony!

[Oldman1]

It's simple, actually.

First China needs to send Pakistan China's most advanced SAMs HQ-16 and HQ-9 (send operators too if required) to protect Pakistan from US airstrikes. China already has troops in Pakistan guarding Karakorum highway. This supply route needs to be extended all the way to Gwadar port.

Then China needs to also beef up Iran's air defenses to protect it from US airstrikes. SAMs + C-803 antiship missiles + Karakorum eagle AWACS + JF-17 should be the "introductory package" for all of China's military allies (including also Burma and Syria). In exchange, China values the geopolitical presence afforded by an alliance system.

Once Pakistan and Iran are fitted with strong air defenses, then China needs to move in assets by land to make Gwadar a functional naval base and possibly deploy a carrier there (post 2012). This naval base will protect the Arabian Sea, and both Pakistan and Iran coastlines. Oil / gas can move from the Persian Gulf to Gwadar and then by land routes or pipeline to Western China. Iran's domination of the Persian Gulf also brings it under the control of our alliance.

Meanwhile, China will turn a blind eye when North Korea, Iran and Syria make nuclear weapons and missiles to threaten US and its allies. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization must be militarized with Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Burma and North Korea joining the SCO. Once the military alliance is settled, the SCO can target and destroy any hostile foe in the region -- Israel, india, arab countries and US forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and UAE.

Well in that case give nukes to South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan which can strike China and North Korea within a few minutes. Give nukes to UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. which would destroy Iran.

[Obambam]

Well in that case give nukes to South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan which can strike China and North Korea within a few minutes. Give nukes to UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. which would destroy Iran.

and the result would be both Russia and China doing the same

[FairAndUnbiased]

Well in that case give nukes to South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan which can strike China and North Korea within a few minutes. Give nukes to UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. which would destroy Iran.

I heard that Cuba, Venezuela and Brazil would all love some ICBMs too. Same with Nigeria and Algeria.

I bet if you gave nukes to UAE, Saudi and Kuwait, they'd nuke each other long before they dared nuke Iran. South Korea and Japan would probably nuke each other before they wanted to risk nuking China. And Taiwan? We know what appears on Governor Ma's deck before he knows it.

[Chinese-Dragon]

Neither has the Soviet Union nor China. Do you see how stupid this line of argument can be?

You fail at history.

In 1950, China attacked US forces that were trying (and succeeding) in overruning all of North Korea.

China, a non-nuclear country... attacked America, a nuclear-armed nation. And we ended up pushing the USA + 16 of her allies completely out of North Korea.

No need for US to get involved. The South Koreans can take of their own.

That's a good excuse to not protect your ally.

But the South Koreans have not responded either.

[Srinivas]

Are you suggesting that Pakistan--Terror--China--Russia can take on NATO and other US allies.
Know this buddy the US and its allies are prepared to fight fire with fire. USSR got kicked out because US spent the money on Taliban and Pakistan. If the US and its allies do the same to fight, China and Pakistan sponsored terror by supporting its own terror then pakistan will be at the mercy of the US leave alone diminishing the influence of US in Afganistan. Afgans are against pakistan unlike the cold war era.

Do not spoil your country by putting its interests against US thinking that China will come to rescue.

[T-Rex]

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Are you suggesting that Pakistan--Terror--China--Russia can take on NATO and other US allies.
Know this buddy the US and its allies are prepared to fight fire with fire. USSR got kicked out because US spent the money on Taliban and Pakistan. If the US and its allies do the same to fight, China and Pakistan sponsored terror by supporting its own terror then pakistan will be at the mercy of the US leave alone diminishing the influence of US in Afganistan. Afgans are against pakistan unlike the cold war era.

Do not spoil your country by putting its interests against US thinking that China will come to rescue.

Listen boy, watching too many of those Rambo type movies has seriously retarded your ability to think as a normal human being. You have become a CIA drone.