Slave labour in America

[BigDaddyWatch]

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Prisoners working for 23 cent an hour and without benefits.

Factory owners: Federal prisoners stealing our business

American Apparel Inc., which manufactures Army uniforms in Alabama, has laid off 150 workers as a result of going head-to-head with Unicor for government contracts.

Just hearing the word Unicor is enough to make Kurt Wilson see red.

Unicor is a government-run enterprise that employs over 13,000 inmates -- at wages as low as 23 cents an hour -- to make goods for the Pentagon and other federal agencies.

With some exceptions, Unicor gets first dibs on federal contracts over private companies as long as its bid is comparable in price, quantity and delivery. In other words: If Unicor wants a contract, it gets it.

And that makes Wilson and other small business owners angry.

Wilson has been competing with Unicor for 20 years. He's an executive at American Apparel Inc., an Alabama company that makes military uniforms. (It is not affiliated with the international retailer of the same name.) He has gone head-to-head with Unicor on just about every product his company makes -- and said he has laid off 150 people over the years as a result.

"We pay employees $9 on average," Wilson said. "They get full medical insurance, 401(k) plans and paid vacation. Yet we're competing against a federal program that doesn't pay any of that."

Unicor, also known as Federal Prison Industries, is part of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons. It has been preparing inmates for jobs after they get out since 1934.

The program has 83 factories and makes goods in seven industries -- apparel being the biggest ticket. Unicor made over $900 million in revenue last year and faces more heat from businesses and lawmakers as the economy takes a toll on small manufacturers.

In Olive Hill, Ky., apparel factory Ashland Sales and Service, Co. has been making windbreakers for the Air Force for 14 years, says Michael Mansh, who runs the factory. Last February, when he learned that Unicor was eyeing the contract, he reached out to Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell.

McConnell, one of the top Republicans on Capitol Hill, issued a public statement urging Unicor to back off. The next day, it did.

With 100 employees, Mansh said Ashland is Olive Hill's largest employer. And he said losing the Air Force contract would have shut the factory down.

"That's 100 people buying groceries. We use trucking companies in the town, buy parts and light bulbs there every day," he said. "That's all lost when prisons take away contracts."

Unicor is not required to pay its workers minimum wage and instead pays inmates 23 cents to $1.15 an hour. It doesn't have health insurance costs. It also doesn't shell out federal, state or local taxes.

Advocates for private sector companies are loudly campaigning for reform of Unicor's preferential status.

Unemployment has been over 8% for nearly four years "and there's a federal program tanking our industry," said Kurt Courtney, director of government relations at the American Apparel and Footwear Association. "The only way for workers to get jobs back is to go to prison. There's got to be a better way to do this."

In 2008, Congress amended the law to limit Unicor's advantage for certain kinds of Pentagon contracts. Now a bill in the House supported by 28 lawmakers from both parties would go further and require Unicor to compete across the board. The bill also provides alternative ways for training inmates, who would instead work for charities, religious organizations, local governments or school districts.

"We know that in the recovery, many new jobs are coming out of small businesses," said Rep. Bill Huizenga, a Michigan Republican who introduced the bill. "It makes no sense to strangle them in the cradle."

Huizenga expects a similar bill to be introduced in the Senate in the coming months.

Unicor doesn't agree with the criticism. According to spokeswoman Julie Rozier, inmates working for Unicor are 24% less likely to reoffend and 14% more likely to be employed long-term upon release. She also noted that over 40% of Unicor's supplies were purchased from small businesses in 2011.

She cited the unique costs associated with operating within a prison. For example, Unicor employs more supervisors than a private sector firm would, and security lockdowns disrupt production.

Businesses aren't buying it. John Palatiello, president of the Business Coalition for Fair Competition, said his organization of businesses and taxpayer groups is sympathetic to Unicor's goals. But they shouldn't be accomplished at the expense of small businesses.

"Who is being punished here?" he said. "The inmates who have committed a crime against society, or the employees of private companies who play by the rules?"

Factory owners: Federal prisoners stealing our business - Aug. 14, 2012

[longyi]

I'm all for it if Unicor sells it's product at market competitive price and the profits go back to the prison system to lower the cost of operations in the prison systems and thus saving tax payers' subsidies. It's about time prisoners too earn their keeps instead of leeching on the society, in which has been paying heavily to house them.

As long as Unicor follows the market mechanism the private industries shouldn't complain because America's is based on capitalistic principles and they knew it before they started their operations. If they want handouts from the government they are in the wrong system and the wrong trade.

Let Darwinism does its work here and eliminates the weak operations. These losers can always go into another industry or work for stronger operators.

[bouncing betty]

A CHINESE guy is talking about SLAVE LABOR ? HAHAHAHAHA !!! That's a GOOD ONE !!! China INVENTED SLAVE LABOR !! You JUST KNOW I'll be dredging up tons of stuff on china's great rights record now,don't you ? Prisoners in the U.S. AREN'T FORCED to work. OH, and nice FAKE inflammatory title.

Red Chinese Slave Labor Floods NAFTA Marketplace With Cheap Goods
By: Jerome Corsi
8/21/2011 12:00 AM



The NAFTA marketplace unrestrained in the pursuit of cheap labor has driven an increasing volume of manufacturing off-shore to Communist China, where slave prison camps offer a cost of labor that is hard to beat.

Chinese made goods ranging from electronics to toys and clothes are daily sold in mass marketing retailers such as Wal-Mart, Home Depot, K-Mart, Target, Lowes, and dozens of other U.S. corporations. Cheap goods from Communist China increasingly line the shelves of the NAFTA marketplace under marquee product trade names that bear no relationship to the Chinese slave labor that manufactured, produced, or otherwise assembled the goods.

Key to this thriving under-market is a flagrant disregard for human rights, on the part of the Communist Chinese, who still permit the exploitation of slave labor. U.S. capitalists and consumers as well turn a blind eye to the human suffering and abuse involved in producing the under-market cheap goods flooding the American retail market from China.

The Chinese slave labor camps set up first under Mao in the 1950s are known as Laogai. Writing for the Human Rights Brief at American University’s Washington College of Law, Ramin Pejan explains that the Laogai system consists of three distinct types of reform: convict labor (Laogai), re-education through labor (Laojiao), and forced job placement (Jiuye). The political nature of these Chinese prison labor camps is clear.

The PRC (People’s Republic of China) uses Laojiao to detain individuals it feels are a threat to national security or it considers unproductive. Individuals in Laojiao may be detained for up to three years. Because those in Laojiao have not committed crimes under PRC law, they are referred to as “personnel” rather than prisoners and they are not entitled to judicial procedure. Instead, individuals are sent to the Laojiao following administrative sentences dispensed by local public security forces. This vague detainment policy allows the PRC to avoid allegations that the individual’s arrest was politically motivated and to assert that they were arrested for reasons such as “not engaging in honest pursuits” or “being able-bodied but refusing to work.”

Pejan notes that even though they have completed their sentence some 70 percent of the prisoners are forced to live in specifically assigned locations where they continue to work in the prison camp. In a cruel slogan that brings to mind the “Arbeit Mach Frei” entrance to the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz, Penan notes that Laogai is an abbreviation for Laodong Gaizao which translates from Mandarin as “reform through labor.”

Despite U.S. government efforts to keep Chinese slave labor goods from entering the U.S. market, the Laogai Research Foundation maintains that China represses open investigation of forced labor camps and the practice continues:

Due to strong resistance from Western nations against forced labor products, in 1991 China’s State Council re-emphasized the ban on the export of “forced labor products” and stipulated that no prison is allowed to cooperate or establish joint ventures with foreign investors. However, the State Council’s move was merely a superficial one, and prisoners today still produce forced labor products in great numbers. The Chinese government grants special privileges to enterprises using labor camps and prisons, to encourage and attract foreign investment and export. Prisoners are forced to manufacture products without any payment, and are often forced to work more than 10 hours a day and sometimes even overnight. Those who cannot fulfill their tasks are beaten and tortured. The forced labor products these prisoners produce are exported throughout China and the world.

The Laogai Research Center “believes that as long as the Chinese Communist Party’s dictatorship exists, the Lagoai will continue to serve as its essential mechanism for suppression and prosecution.” The Laogai Research Foundation documents more than 1,000 Chinese slave-labor prison camps still operating today, with a prison population estimated at several millions.

A U.S.-China Security Review Commission Policy Paper on Prison Labor and Forced Labor in China concluded that the U.S. Customs Service “cannot conduct independent investigations in China” to determine if goods imported into the U.S. were made in Chinese forced labor camps. Despite numerous treaties, memoranda of understanding, and laws, the Commission concluded that China simply refuses to supply the information needed to make factual determinations:

… we understand that since 1996 the Customs Service has sent thirty letters to the Chinese Ministry of Justice regarding either visits or investigations of prison facilities in China that were suspected of producing goods for export to the United States. In most cases, the Chinese Ministry of Justice failed to respond to such letters.

The Customs Service has told the Commission that the difficulty in enforcing Section 307 to block the importation of goods made by prison labor in China does not arise from the U.S. statues. The difficulty arises because the PRC is not abiding by the 1992 and 1994 agreements it negotiated with the U.S. government.

The Congressional-Executive Commission on China published in its 2005 annual report a conclusion that: “Forced labor is an integral part of the Chinese administrative detention system, and child labor remains a significant problem in China, despite being prohibited by law.”

Just above the slave labor camps is a vast Chinese under-market where millions of Chinese work for meager wages under constantly abusive work conditions. Today China makes approximately 75 percent of the world’s toys. As noted by the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC), U.S. companies such as Disney, Mattel (maker of the Barbie doll), Hasbro, McDonald’s (Happy Meal toys), and Warner Brothers utilize factories in China to produce toys for virtually all major U.S. retailers, including Toys-R-Us, Wal-Mart, and Target, as well as for direct marketing. Still, the AHRC documents that working conditions in the Chinese toy manufacturing industry are abysmal, just one notch above 21st century slave trade standards. Consider this AHRC description of a Chinese toy worker’s story:

Average age of a worker in a typical Chinese toy factory: between 12- and 15-years-old.
Typical wage of workers in Asian toy factories: from as little as 6 cents an hour up to 40 cents an hour (in U.S. dollar terms).
Typical number of hours worked in a day during busy periods: up to 19.
Typical number of days worked per week: 6.
Young workers work all day in 104-degree temperature, handling toxic glues, paints, and solvents.
Workers weakened by illness and pregnant workers, who are supposed to have legal protection, are forced to quit.
The typical profile of workers in these factories involves single young women migrants from rural areas to the cities in search of jobs.

With more than 1 billion Chinese vying for an economic existence, the Chinese under-market thrives in a competitive environment of labor over-supply. One mistake, even in an abusive labor environment, can exclude a Chinese uneducated and unskilled worker from future employment, especially when thousands wait in line for the job.

Increasingly well documented is the continuing Communist Chinese persecution of Falun Gong cult practitioners. A July 2006 report released by Canadian human rights lawyer David Matas and former Canadian MP member David Kilgour has alleged continuing Communist Chinese organ harvesting achieved by murdering imprisoned Fulong Gong practitioners. The report’s conclusions were clear:

We believe that there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners.

We have concluded that the government of China and its agencies in numerous parts of the country, in particular hospitals but also detention centres and “people’s courts,” since 1999 have put to death a large but unknown number of Falun Gong prisoners of conscience. Their vital organs, including hearts, kidneys, livers and corneas, were virtually simultaneously seized involuntarily for sale at high prices, sometimes to foreigners, who normally face long waits for voluntary donations of such organs in their home countries.

We have previously argued that the projections of increased containers with cheap Chinese under-market goods headed for U.S. mass marketing retailers is the demand driving the construction of NAFTA super-highways and the opening up of Mexican ports as an alternative to west coast ports including Los Angeles and Long Beach. Reform the labor market in China or enforce traditional “anti-dumping” international trade restrictions against the entry of under-market goods and the need for NAFTA super-highways four football-fields wide open to Mexican ports operated by the Communist Chinese is largely gone.

As of yet, the black market in organ purchases has remained largely underground, hidden from public view. Today the American people remain largely unknowledgeable and/or uncaring over the massive human rights abuses in the Chinese labor under-market including slave forced prison labor, all for lower priced toys, sneakers, T-shirts, and electronics. Do we really think there will remain a bright moral line between using Chinese slave labor—a form of slow death for the under-market workers so abused—and outright murder of political prisoners that is required to promote an international market in human organs for the international elite with ample ready cash in hand?

Unbridled capitalism can be counted on to press for erasing national boundaries that are perceived by free trade enthusiasts as speed bumps on their way to unlimited profits. How different today are the photographs Michael Wolf has taken of under-market labor in China from the photographs of Lewis W. Hine and Jacob Riis, who documented the human exploitation we tolerated in this country prior to the rise of the U.S. labor movement?

[BigDaddyWatch]

A CHINESE guy is talking about SLAVE LABOR ? HAHAHAHAHA !!! That's a GOOD ONE !!! China INVENTED SLAVE LABOR !! You JUST KNOW I'll be dredging up tons of stuff on china's great rights record now,don't you ? Prisoners in the U.S. AREN'T FORCED to work. OH, and nice FAKE inflammatory title.

Red Chinese Slave Labor Floods NAFTA Marketplace With Cheap Goods
By: Jerome Corsi
8/21/2011 12:00 AM



The NAFTA marketplace unrestrained in the pursuit of cheap labor has driven an increasing volume of manufacturing off-shore to Communist China, where slave prison camps offer a cost of labor that is hard to beat.

Chinese made goods ranging from electronics to toys and clothes are daily sold in mass marketing retailers such as Wal-Mart, Home Depot, K-Mart, Target, Lowes, and dozens of other U.S. corporations. Cheap goods from Communist China increasingly line the shelves of the NAFTA marketplace under marquee product trade names that bear no relationship to the Chinese slave labor that manufactured, produced, or otherwise assembled the goods.

Key to this thriving under-market is a flagrant disregard for human rights, on the part of the Communist Chinese, who still permit the exploitation of slave labor. U.S. capitalists and consumers as well turn a blind eye to the human suffering and abuse involved in producing the under-market cheap goods flooding the American retail market from China.

The Chinese slave labor camps set up first under Mao in the 1950s are known as Laogai. Writing for the Human Rights Brief at American University’s Washington College of Law, Ramin Pejan explains that the Laogai system consists of three distinct types of reform: convict labor (Laogai), re-education through labor (Laojiao), and forced job placement (Jiuye). The political nature of these Chinese prison labor camps is clear.

The PRC (People’s Republic of China) uses Laojiao to detain individuals it feels are a threat to national security or it considers unproductive. Individuals in Laojiao may be detained for up to three years. Because those in Laojiao have not committed crimes under PRC law, they are referred to as “personnel” rather than prisoners and they are not entitled to judicial procedure. Instead, individuals are sent to the Laojiao following administrative sentences dispensed by local public security forces. This vague detainment policy allows the PRC to avoid allegations that the individual’s arrest was politically motivated and to assert that they were arrested for reasons such as “not engaging in honest pursuits” or “being able-bodied but refusing to work.”

Pejan notes that even though they have completed their sentence some 70 percent of the prisoners are forced to live in specifically assigned locations where they continue to work in the prison camp. In a cruel slogan that brings to mind the “Arbeit Mach Frei” entrance to the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz, Penan notes that Laogai is an abbreviation for Laodong Gaizao which translates from Mandarin as “reform through labor.”

Despite U.S. government efforts to keep Chinese slave labor goods from entering the U.S. market, the Laogai Research Foundation maintains that China represses open investigation of forced labor camps and the practice continues:

Due to strong resistance from Western nations against forced labor products, in 1991 China’s State Council re-emphasized the ban on the export of “forced labor products” and stipulated that no prison is allowed to cooperate or establish joint ventures with foreign investors. However, the State Council’s move was merely a superficial one, and prisoners today still produce forced labor products in great numbers. The Chinese government grants special privileges to enterprises using labor camps and prisons, to encourage and attract foreign investment and export. Prisoners are forced to manufacture products without any payment, and are often forced to work more than 10 hours a day and sometimes even overnight. Those who cannot fulfill their tasks are beaten and tortured. The forced labor products these prisoners produce are exported throughout China and the world.

The Laogai Research Center “believes that as long as the Chinese Communist Party’s dictatorship exists, the Lagoai will continue to serve as its essential mechanism for suppression and prosecution.” The Laogai Research Foundation documents more than 1,000 Chinese slave-labor prison camps still operating today, with a prison population estimated at several millions.

A U.S.-China Security Review Commission Policy Paper on Prison Labor and Forced Labor in China concluded that the U.S. Customs Service “cannot conduct independent investigations in China” to determine if goods imported into the U.S. were made in Chinese forced labor camps. Despite numerous treaties, memoranda of understanding, and laws, the Commission concluded that China simply refuses to supply the information needed to make factual determinations:

… we understand that since 1996 the Customs Service has sent thirty letters to the Chinese Ministry of Justice regarding either visits or investigations of prison facilities in China that were suspected of producing goods for export to the United States. In most cases, the Chinese Ministry of Justice failed to respond to such letters.

The Customs Service has told the Commission that the difficulty in enforcing Section 307 to block the importation of goods made by prison labor in China does not arise from the U.S. statues. The difficulty arises because the PRC is not abiding by the 1992 and 1994 agreements it negotiated with the U.S. government.

The Congressional-Executive Commission on China published in its 2005 annual report a conclusion that: “Forced labor is an integral part of the Chinese administrative detention system, and child labor remains a significant problem in China, despite being prohibited by law.”

Just above the slave labor camps is a vast Chinese under-market where millions of Chinese work for meager wages under constantly abusive work conditions. Today China makes approximately 75 percent of the world’s toys. As noted by the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC), U.S. companies such as Disney, Mattel (maker of the Barbie doll), Hasbro, McDonald’s (Happy Meal toys), and Warner Brothers utilize factories in China to produce toys for virtually all major U.S. retailers, including Toys-R-Us, Wal-Mart, and Target, as well as for direct marketing. Still, the AHRC documents that working conditions in the Chinese toy manufacturing industry are abysmal, just one notch above 21st century slave trade standards. Consider this AHRC description of a Chinese toy worker’s story:

Average age of a worker in a typical Chinese toy factory: between 12- and 15-years-old.
Typical wage of workers in Asian toy factories: from as little as 6 cents an hour up to 40 cents an hour (in U.S. dollar terms).
Typical number of hours worked in a day during busy periods: up to 19.
Typical number of days worked per week: 6.
Young workers work all day in 104-degree temperature, handling toxic glues, paints, and solvents.
Workers weakened by illness and pregnant workers, who are supposed to have legal protection, are forced to quit.
The typical profile of workers in these factories involves single young women migrants from rural areas to the cities in search of jobs.

With more than 1 billion Chinese vying for an economic existence, the Chinese under-market thrives in a competitive environment of labor over-supply. One mistake, even in an abusive labor environment, can exclude a Chinese uneducated and unskilled worker from future employment, especially when thousands wait in line for the job.

Increasingly well documented is the continuing Communist Chinese persecution of Falun Gong cult practitioners. A July 2006 report released by Canadian human rights lawyer David Matas and former Canadian MP member David Kilgour has alleged continuing Communist Chinese organ harvesting achieved by murdering imprisoned Fulong Gong practitioners. The report’s conclusions were clear:

We believe that there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners.

We have concluded that the government of China and its agencies in numerous parts of the country, in particular hospitals but also detention centres and “people’s courts,” since 1999 have put to death a large but unknown number of Falun Gong prisoners of conscience. Their vital organs, including hearts, kidneys, livers and corneas, were virtually simultaneously seized involuntarily for sale at high prices, sometimes to foreigners, who normally face long waits for voluntary donations of such organs in their home countries.

We have previously argued that the projections of increased containers with cheap Chinese under-market goods headed for U.S. mass marketing retailers is the demand driving the construction of NAFTA super-highways and the opening up of Mexican ports as an alternative to west coast ports including Los Angeles and Long Beach. Reform the labor market in China or enforce traditional “anti-dumping” international trade restrictions against the entry of under-market goods and the need for NAFTA super-highways four football-fields wide open to Mexican ports operated by the Communist Chinese is largely gone.

As of yet, the black market in organ purchases has remained largely underground, hidden from public view. Today the American people remain largely unknowledgeable and/or uncaring over the massive human rights abuses in the Chinese labor under-market including slave forced prison labor, all for lower priced toys, sneakers, T-shirts, and electronics. Do we really think there will remain a bright moral line between using Chinese slave labor—a form of slow death for the under-market workers so abused—and outright murder of political prisoners that is required to promote an international market in human organs for the international elite with ample ready cash in hand?

Unbridled capitalism can be counted on to press for erasing national boundaries that are perceived by free trade enthusiasts as speed bumps on their way to unlimited profits. How different today are the photographs Michael Wolf has taken of under-market labor in China from the photographs of Lewis W. Hine and Jacob Riis, who documented the human exploitation we tolerated in this country prior to the rise of the U.S. labor movement?

Americans cannot take any criticism what so ever. Keep telling them selfs the Shangri La story. Americans cannot face the fact that America IS a poor country. The income inequality in the US are as bad as those in China but poverty and inequality in America has been masked by the availability of credits. When people cannot afford something they just borrow to spendt. A large swat of the American population are living well beyond their means. And if you take away the government support and let the interest rate raise to it's true levels that's reflective of the economic state of the US today rather than the artificially low interest rate set by the Federal Reserves. You will then see the real living standard of the average American and there is nothing to cheer about. And for a nation that stoll all its land by genocide and build on the backs of black slaves should not talk about slavery in other countries. America invented slavery on mass.

[A1Kaid]

Good, we need more slave labor in America. There are many groups of people I can think of in America should be in slave labor, and they should not be paid anything in fact it is these leeches who owe the productive American public money.

[jayron]

1. US doesn't force the prisoner to work.
2.China uses political prisoners and dissidents in their labor camps to work.
3. It is the US media criticizing these acts of their own nation.

[PlaySteady]

Can we Pakistanis adopt the same frame work as the Americans and Chinese? make the prisoners work for the prison bills? even better, make them work for the economy of the country. Maybe it would greatly strengthen our law and order institution of police The police would actually gain revenue from prisons.

[BigDaddyWatch]

1. US doesn't force the prisoner to work.
2.China uses political prisoners and dissidents in their labor camps to work.
3. It is the US media criticizing these acts of their own nation.

Always making excuses. Why would they work for 23 cents an hour without benefits ? And how do you know that every one are doing it out of their free will ?

BTW the article doesn't criticize the fact that this prisoners are working for 23 cents an hour but its criticising the fact that jobs are "stolen" from private company workers.

[gambit]

Always making excuses. Why would they work for 23 cents an hour without benefits ?

They are prisoners. As state wards they have benefits such as shelter, food and health care. They work because they want to earn extra money to buy things that are beyond what the basic necessities prison life provides.

And how do you know that every one are doing it out of their free will ?

Because this is not run by China.

[BigDaddyWatch]

They are prisoners. As state wards they have benefits such as shelter, food and health care. They work because they want to earn extra money to buy things that are beyond what the basic necessities prison life provides.


Because this is not run by China.

America is the capital of exploitation, you just look at what is happening on Wallstreet and in Washington DC. You look at what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan nothing surprises me any more about America. As i said you Americans are living in denial about the true state of you're country.

Just a few examples of reality vs high ideals in America.

Americans don't torture... Ooops Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib
American banks are sound... Ooops Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns
Americans make top quality goods... Ooops tainted beef and bankrupt automakers
American politics are about checks and balances... Ooops Iraq War
America has freedom of speech but peaceful occupy wallstreet protesters are being maced and arrested.

[gambit]

America is the capital of exploitation, you just look at what is happening on Wallstreet and in Washington DC. You look at what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan nothing surprises me any more about America. As i said you Americans are living in denial about the true state of you're country.

Just a few examples of reality vs high ideals in America.

Americans don't torture... Ooops Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib
American banks are sound... Ooops Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns
Americans make top quality goods... Ooops tainted beef and bankrupt automakers
American politics are about checks and balances... Ooops Iraq War
America has freedom of speech but peaceful occupy wallstreet protesters are being maced and arrested.

Times 10 for China on ALL of the above.

[BigDaddyWatch]

Times 10 for China on ALL of the above.

First of all this tread is not about China but America. So you are going off topic.
But if you think that America is sooooo much better than other countries it's not.

If you want to talk about violating international law, corruption, indebtedness, hypocrisy and simply living in denial there is no one else but America that is at number one.

[gambit]

First of all this tread is not about China but America. So you are going off topic.

Yeah...And post 10 is right on topic.

But if you think that America is sooooo much better than other countries it's not.

Why not? I do not see long lines at embassies trying to get Chinese citizenship.

If you want to talk about violating international law, corruption, indebtedness, hypocrisy and simply living in denial there is no one else but America that is at number one.

Your script is stale. Please contact your superiors for a new one.

[A1Kaid]

Can we Pakistanis adopt the same frame work as the Americans and Chinese? make the prisoners work for the prison bills? even better, make them work for the economy of the country. Maybe it would greatly strengthen our law and order institution of police The police would actually gain revenue from prisons.

Pakistan already makes prisoners do work, clean up public areas, etc. Prisoners even have to grown and cook their own food. This is something US should adopt from Pakistan.

[BigDaddyWatch]

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Yeah...And post 10 is right on topic.


Why not? I do not see long lines at embassies trying to get Chinese citizenship.


Your script is stale. Please contact your superiors for a new one.

You are trying to justify the unjustifiable and thats why you are going off topic and getting into personal attacks.

People still wants to go to America because those people don't knows the true state of the country. How do you think the financial crisis happend ? How do you think it will all end ? I'm afraid its going to end down the barrel for America.