Ajmal Kasab's Indian trial

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by saadahmed

The only surviving suspected gunman in the Mumbai terror attacks has retracted his confession after claiming it was extracted by torture, his defence lawyer says.
Mumbai Terror Attacks: Mohammed Ajmal Kasab Retracts Confession And Alleges Torture | World News | Sky News

Well, what do we now about the confession?

[godsavetheworld]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

On the issue of his confession - why on earth would the PA use someone of the rank of a Colonel to set up 'internet telephony', when any techie of the street could have done so?

News makers make use words that that make it easy for average Joe to understand what is being said. Mere setting up of internet telephony is a simple way of saying that the army colonel was involved in providing technical logistics. The charge has been clearly layed out in the 11,000 page chargesheet, which is now a public document. If you want to an idea about how he was involved read it.

And since it is admissible in court, it is not bollywood stuff. Moreover this was itself said by the public prosecutor for the Mumbai Police. Court is not a place for alleging. If it is being said it has to be backed by proof or else it is BS!. Which not in this case.

I am not suggesting that a rape or terrorist attack are the same crime, what I am pointing out if you argue that one crime allegedly committed by a serving Army officer can be used to justify institutional involvement (this alleged colonel setting up internet telephony), then so can another (Army personnel raping women) - its a fallacious argument

The only fallacious agument is that you care to compare rape with a terrorist attack.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by Screaming Skull

Ah so now you are getting into the technicalities of things. Let me ask you wont the same argument hold if 10 IA soldiers cross over to ur side and kill people and the IA says that the the 10 soldiers acted upon their own discretion and IA as an institution wasn't involved?

I suppose if the IA declares it had nothing to do with that incident and strongly condemns it, and there is no evidence indicating anything to the contrary, then we'd have to believe the IA's version, and string up those IA soldiers by their ball$ in Pakistan so no one else tried the same stunt again.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by godsavetheworld

If you want to an idea about how he was involved read it.

I am not interested in reading 11000 pages thank you.

Pleas post the relevant excerpts establishing your point.

The only fallacious agument is that you care to compare rape with a terrorist attack.

No - the fallacious argument is suggesting that the involvement of one individual from an institution in a crime proves that the institution itself is complicit.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Jeypore:

26/11 probe: Pakistan smiles, India squirms

17 Apr 2009, 0945 hrs IST, TNN

NEW DELHI: Three major faux pas in quick succession by the authorities have embarrassed India, especially when it is engaged in a diplomatic
face-off with Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks.

You would have imagined government babus would shed their habitual sloth in the collective effort to bring the 26/11 accused to justice, but the past week has showed that all the criticism heaped on bureaucrats for their inefficiency and sloth is justified.

Apart from the embarrassment, it has opened India to finger-wagging strictures by Pakistan, which naturally smiled while India squirmed.

Three days ago, Pakistani interior minister Rehman Malik was demonised in India for claiming that the DNA profiles of lone terrorist survivor Ajmal Amir Kasab and his slain companion Mohammed Ismail were same. A day later, it turned out that a "clerical error" on the part of the Mumbai cops was responsible for what is now being used by Islamabad to buttress its claim that it is actually India which is delaying the investigations into the attacks. Rubbing it in, Pakistani foreign office on Thursday, in fact, "advised" India to avoid lapses in the Mumbai probe.

The police are learnt to have admitted before their political bosses that one of the profile reports sent was a photocopy of the other one. Nobody had an inkling of the goof-up for over a month and it came to light only after Malik's press conference earlier this week. Apart from handing a stick to Pakistan to beat India with, this is likely to make a dent, if not a deep hole, in India's credibility before the international community.

The foreign ministry fared no better. Foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee, campaigning in rural Bengal on Tuesday, caused a minor flutter by saying that Kasab's mother was likely to visit him in jail. In his statement to TV journalists, he seemed to draw a direct link between his announcement and his "conversation" with the foreign secretary.

Mukherjee has been at the forefront of the verbal battle unleashed on Pakistan for the past couple of months. But someone should have told him that discretion was the better part of valour when campaigning for a Lok Sabha seat. Particularly since no such feedback went to him from the MEA.

Mukherjee retracted within a couple of hours saying his comments were based on newspaper reports. "There is no official information about the so-called visit of Kasab's mother as reported in a section of the media."

Sources said Mukherjee had received this "input" from his officials who, in turn, were influenced by reports that a woman claiming to be Kasab's mother had apparently turned up at the Mumbai police station asking to meet him.

This woman, who lives in Ghaziabad, turned out to be mentally unstable. The government could have been spared the blushes had the officials concerned double-checked the information before going public.

Lastly, the manner in which the entire Anjali Waghmare case has been handled actually suggests that India is not serious about ensuring punishment for the only terrorist security agencies managed to nab in the attacks. Waghmare was initially appointed Kasab's defence lawyer but she started to have second thoughts after some political parties protested violently saying that Kasab did not deserve a defence lawyer.

It took Waghmare several days to decide. Meanwhile, authorities paid no heed to reports that the lawyer, before she got the Kasab brief, had represented one of the 26/11 victims in a compensation claim -- the reason why she was eventually taken off the case. The almost bizarre delay in verifying the credentials of Waghmare has further delayed the trial.

26/11 probe: Pakistan smiles, India squirms - India - The Times of India

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So does this mean that India is using delaying tactics in prosecuting Kasab?

[Screaming Skull]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

I suppose if the IA declares it had nothing to do with that incident and strongly condemns it, and there is no evidence indicating anything to the contrary, then we'd have to believe the IA's version, and string up those IA soldiers by their ball$ in Pakistan so no one else tried the same stunt again.

Unfortunately that is possible only in a Utopian world. We have seen several ceasefire violations from either side of the border, for which only a few soldiers are responsible (at least from the Indian side). But the blame is put on the state as a whole.

[Screaming Skull]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

I am not interested in reading 11000 pages thank you.

Pleas post the relevant excerpts establishing your point.


No - the fallacious argument is suggesting that the involvement of one individual from an institution in a crime proves that the institution itself is complicit.

....involvement in a crime "on another sovereign country", of the nature of Mumbai where hundreds of individuals of many nationalities lost their lives.

Pls don't trivialize the incident by calling it just another crime.

[godsavetheworld]

Indian Court Rejects Plea That Kasab Is a Juvenile (Update1)
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By Sumit Sharma

April 17 (Bloomberg) -- An Indian court trying Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the surviving gunman from last year’s attacks in Mumbai, rejected a plea by his counsel that the defendant was a juvenile to prevent proceedings from being stalled.

“The plea seems to be to delay the trial,” Judge M.L. Tahaliyani said in the Mumbai court today. “I’m not inclined to initiate such an inquiry. If found necessary, further orders will be passed.”

India says Kasab was one of 10 members of Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba who raided sites across Mumbai last November, launching gun and grenade attacks over three days and killing 166 people. The attack raised tensions with Pakistan and derailed a peace process between the nuclear-armed neighbors.

Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam reiterated the charges against Kasab at the court inside a heavily fortified city jail.

“This criminal conspiracy was hatched in Pakistan to attack India with the positive intention to wage a war to annexe Kashmir,” the prosecutor told the court. “They had conspired to topple the administration, the whole of India was targeted, not just Mumbai.”

Kasab’s lawyer Abbas Kazmi told the judge that his client had been underage when the attack took place. Nikam countered that Kasab said in his confession that his date of birth was Sept. 13, 1987, making him 21 years of age.

Kasab, charged with waging war against India and committing terrorist acts, could face the death penalty if found guilty, Nikam had said earlier.

Kasab Counsel

Judge M.L. Tahaliyani yesterday named Kazmi to represent Kasab, a day after his previous lawyer was removed over a conflict of interest.

The attackers were trained in Pakistan by the Lashkar-e- Taiba and an associated group known as the Jamaat ud-Dawa in sailing boats, the use of satellite phones, GPS devices, and AK- 47s, Nikam said. Those present at the training included Zia-ur- Rehman Lakhvi, an unidentified major general of the Pakistani army and one Colonel Sadaatullah, the prosecutor said.

Sadaatullah, whose e-mail ID was used to subscribe to satellite phone connections, belonged to a “special communications organization” of the Pakistani army that was based in Rawalpindi and operated mainly in the part of Kashmir controlled by the neighboring nation, Nikam told the court.

India has demanded the extradition of those behind the attacks. Pakistan acknowledged on Feb. 12 the operation was planned from its territory and said arrests had been made. It has asked India for more information to aid its probe.

Two Accomplices

Two alleged Indian accomplices, Sabauddin Ahmed and Fahim Ansari, are also on trial at the court.

India has charged 47 people, including 45 Pakistani nationals, with planning and carrying out the raids on two luxury hotels, a café, the railway station and a Jewish center between Nov. 26 and 29.

The neighbors have fought two of three wars since independence in 1947 over control of the Himalayan territory of Kashmir, divided between them and claimed in full by both.

India accuses Pakistan of backing separatists fighting its rule in Jammu and Kashmir, where more than a dozen separatist groups have been opposing rule from New Delhi. About 50,000 people have died since an anti-India rebellion began in 1989.

[ajpirzada]

Kasab alleges torture, retracts confession
17 Apr 2009, 1627 hrs IST, AFP

MUMBAI: Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the terrorist on trial for last year's Mumbai attacks, wants to retract his confession, claiming it was extracted by
torture, his defence lawyer, Abbas Kazmi, told reporters on Friday. ( Watch )

On his instruction, a retraction application has been filed, retracting the so-called alleged confession," said the lawyer, who is defending Pakistani national Kasab.

"He's going to plead not guilty," he added.

Kazmi told reporters that Kasab claimed the confession, made to a local magistrate while he was in police custody, was "extracted out of coercion and force and it was not a voluntary confession."

He quoted Kasab as claiming he had been "physically tortured."

Earlier in court, Kasab’s lawyer said his client had told him that he "had not even reached the age of 17" when the attacks took place last November. "He is still under 18. In such circumstances he is deemed to be a juvenile and this court has no jurisdiction to try this case," Abbas Kazmi told the trial court.

The court, however, dismissed the accused application that claimed he was a ‘juvenile’.

Public prosecutor Ujwal Nikam rejected the Pakistani national’s submission, saying that in both Kasab's "confession statement" to the police and on transfer to jail, he had said he was 21".

"On the day of the incident, November 26, 2008, he had completed 21 years, two months and some 13 days," Nikam said.

Judge M L Tahiliyani asked Kasab to stand in the dock and then commented: "As one looks at accused No 1, it does not appear that he is below 17 years."

Rejecting the application, the judge added, "In my considered opinion, the plea is frivolous and intended to delay the trial."

Kasab faces a string of charges including "waging war" on India, murder, attempted murder and kidnapping.

He faces the death penalty if convicted of taking part in the attacks, which left more than 160 dead and hundreds more wounded.

Kasab alleges torture, retracts confession - India - The Times of India

[Gabbar]

26/11 accussed Ajmal Kasab wants to retract confession

During the trial in the November 26 Mumbai terror attacks case began on Friday at the special sessions court, Kasab's lawyer claimed moved application to retract his confession.

In his application, Kasab said that he was tortured to make a confession and it was not his voluntary confession.

Kasab's lawyer, also told reporters that he was physically tortured in the jail and reiterated that he did not make the confessions voluntarily.

Earlier, the special court dismissed Kasab's application claiming that he is a "juvenile".

According to media reports, the prosecution opened the case against the Mumbai attack terrorist Mohammad Ajmal Kasab, Faheem Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed with Special Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam declaring the charges against Kasab. A confession statement by Kasab running in over 21 pages were also opened.

Although he was not directly involved in killing all 166 persons, Kasab was an active member of conspiracy hatched in Pakistan to commit terror attacks in India, Nikam said in his brief preliminary address to open the case on Thursday.

Several charges have been slapped against Kasab, including criminal conspiracy, waging war against nation, committing robbery and also under various other sections of the IPC, reports said.

Kasab has also been charged with the murder of Mumbai police officials Hemant Karkare, Tukaram Ombale, Vijay Salaskar, and Ashok Kamte. The prosecution said that the handlers of the Mumbai attackers had asked them to target American and Israeli nationals. (With PTI inputs)

[Captain03]

Geo TV Pakistan - Breaking News, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment, & Video News
MUMBAI: Ajmal Kasab on trial in India for last year's Mumbai attacks wants to retract his confession, claiming it was extracted by torture, his defence lawyer told reporters Friday.

"On his instruction, a retraction application has been filed, retracting the so-called alleged confession," said Abbas Kazmi, who is defending Mohammed Ajmal Kasab.

"He's going to plead not guilty," he added.

The lawyer told reporters that Kasab claimed the confession, made to a local magistrate while he was in police custody, was "extracted out of coercion and force and it was not a voluntary confession."

He quoted Kasab as claiming he had been "physically tortured."

[All-Green]

Originally Posted by Screaming Skull

Unfortunately that is possible only in a Utopian world. We have seen several ceasefire violations from either side of the border, for which only a few soldiers are responsible (at least from the Indian side). But the blame is put on the state as a whole.

Screaming Skull, that seems quite an unfair comment.

So in such violations when there are hundreds of bullets fired in broad daylight the individual soldiers are using ammo from their own pockets, without caring two hoots for their chain of command?
Ammo is counted and strictly checked in all professional forces and both Pakistan and India are professional Armies.

How easily you dismiss the Indian violations as merely the whims of individual soldiers but same is not suggested of Pakistani Soldiers, implying that it is Pakistani State on one hand but few cavalier Indian soldiers on the other hand.

[fateh71]

Standard operating procedure. If he's to plead not guilty, he must retract his confession. Expected.

[Bezerk]

Plead not guilty? Was he sleepwalking with an AK-47 on 26/11?

[Gabbar]

Pak Maj-Gen visited training camp: Kasab
18 Apr 2009, 0130 hrs IST, Kartikeya , TNN

MUMBAI: "Are you ready for jung (war)?" top Lashkar-e-Toiba operatives Hafiz Saeed and Zaki-ur Rahman Lakhvi asked Ajmal Amir Kasab and his fellow
terrorists. "Yes, we are," they replied. "The duo told us that they had been fighting Indian forces in Kashmir for 15 years, and that we had to attack Hindustan from within by targeting its major cities."

This is part of the chilling 37-page confession made by Kasab that was read out for the first time in the special trial court on Friday. The confession — which was later retracted by Kasab, who said it was given under coercion — reveals the manner in which the plot to attack Mumbai was meticulously planned and ruthlessly executed.

Referring repeatedly to his "Klashan" (an AK-47 rifle), Kasab laid bare the intensive training that went into wielding the automatic weapon, turning it into an instrument of mass destruction. Kasab and nine other terrorists were carefully watched by "ustads" (trainers) who imparted not just arms training, but also held indoctrination sessions.

The attackers were told they were targeting India's economic might by shooting down foreign nationals in Mumbai. "We had to attack places such as Malabar Hill, the Taj and Oberoi Hotels that were frequented by foreigners. We had to specifically kill Americans, British and Israelis," Kasab's confession says.

"Lakhvi and Saeed divided us into pairs — the buddy system. He made five buddy teams of us 10 mujahids. Lakhvi said that on the 27th day of Ramzan, we would launch a fidayeen attack on Mumbai," said Kasab. "We had to set fire to Taj and Oberoi Hotels and also plant bombs around them. The bombs were meant to lead to chaos and traffic jams. This would have prevented security forces from reaching us on time," he continues.

At CST, Kasab was ordered to fire indiscriminately and "not distinguish between Hindus and Muslims". But the brief was different for the hotel sieges: the terrorists were told to single out foreigners and spare the Muslims.

An enigmatic character who crops up in Kasab's statement is a "Major General Sahab" who visited a camp at Baitul Mujahid to oversee their progress and skills. Kasab claims to be the best shooter of the group and Imran Babar, the worst.

Skills to hoodwink the Indian naval and police forces were also part of a one-month training module. The terror recruits were taught to pretend to be fishermen and assume false identities. Kasab was `Sunil Devesh Chaudhary' from Hyderabad. "We were trained to go without food for 60 hours, but yet be able to climb mountains with a heavy bag," he says in his confession, adding that "this training was very difficult and tough, and 10 cadet mujahids ran away".