After partition: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Originally Posted by fateh71

How much spin, how much spin... majority of that money and majority of indian expats work in the fiercely Muslim gulf

44% of Remittance to Indian come from North America which is equal to 17.6 billions annual and why Muslim gulf is fiercely?? Plz share one or two examples of problems faced by Indians there.

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Making India a regional power is part of the "New World Order".

[paritosh]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

India is almost three times the size of Pakistan and population is also 5 times , it has more human and land resources .

I think Pakistan within its resourses and geopolitical conditions performed not bad in last 60 years.

Pakistan is 5th largest world populated country ,so it should utilize human resourse potential by increasing the education standard and have also advantage of strategic location. Pakistan can become hub of economy for middle east and central asia.

In short, Pakistan have potential to become economic super power of world in next 20 years if they focus on infrastructure,education and security .

while size and resources obviously matter...i would like to point out a few cases....Japan has non-existent resources when compared to you.
Israel is another country that has done exceedingly good...now you might point out the American hand in that...but seriously...considering their size and population...even with all the monetary help...from holding off the armies of four countries to their renowned defense industries...they have surpassed many.
while...Russia has surplus natural resources and ok man-power...they are struggling to keep up to their cold-war super power status.and so are most of the resource rich countries of latin america...big countries with small economies.
it's more of a human thing...you can either make ritual sacrifices to the rain god for a good harvest...of try to working on GM seeds and motor harvesters.

[paritosh]

i firmly believe that Pakistan has suffered a lot because of it's traditional rivalry with India...Pakistan as has been pointed out...started with scarce resources and funding.three wars and numerous face-offs have taken their toll on the economy.It is obviously a double-edged sword...as even we have struggled to maintain a sustained growth rate for long...but even then...a lot of things have become apparent with pakistan's case...
1)the army holds much more significance than it is supposed to there have been several coup de'tat by the army)
2)Democracy and the national constitution have been played around with many a times.
3)Pakistan's foreign policy has been rendered almost ineffective due to it's close proximity to the other powers to gain a leverage vis-a-vis India(take for example the areal predator drone attacks by the US considered a breach of sovereignty by many)...this according to me is the worst of all...as an unambiguous foreign policy is of utmost importance for a sovereign country....as an example...Pakistan does indeed have some valide reasons to voive the kashmir issue and take it to the UN for settlement..we all know that...but what really has happened is not worth all that effort...most of the foreign powers aren't sincerely interested in hearing the paksitani side of the story.."till the sponsoring of cross-border terrorism is stopped"..is what Pakistan is told....which baffles a lot many in pakistan I am sure.
now instead of trying to figure out an effective counter post to break mine...I'd appreciate if we talk progressively.

[paritosh]

Originally Posted by Omar1984

TTP is a new group. It didn't exist before India set its consulates in Afghanistan. You cant compare it to to the Naxilites and Maoists thats been going on for decades in India.

From Separatist movements of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Separatist Movements in India
See also: Insurgent groups in Northeast India

Andhra Pradesh[citation needed]
Political party: Jai Andhra[1]
Arunachal Pradesh
Rebel organization: Arunachal Dragon Force
Proposed autonomous region: Teola country[2]
Assam
See also under Bodoland, Dimasaland, Kamtapur, Karbi below.


Rebel organization: United Liberation Front of Assam, Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam[3]
Bodoland
Political parties: National Democratic Front of Bodoland
Dimasaland
Political party: Dima Halim Daogah
Garo
Rebel organizations: People's Liberation Front of Meghalaya/Achik National Volunteer Council[4]
Proposed autonomous region: Achikland
Gondwana
Political party: Gondwana Ganatantra Party, seeking to create a Gondi state from parts of Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Maharashtra[5]
Kamtapur
Political party: Kamtapur Peoples Party (political wing of KLO)
Rebel organizations: Kamtapur Liberation Organisation, Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation
Karbi[citation needed]
Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers, United People’s Democratic Solidarity[6]
Proposed autonomous region: Karbi-Anglong[citation needed]
Karnataka
Proposed State:Tulu Nad,seeking to create a Tulu state from parts of Karnataka
Kashmir
Rebel organizations:Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul-mujahideen
Proposed state: Unification with Pakistan
Political organizations:All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
Proposed state: Independent State of Kashmir
Nagaland
Rebel organization: National Socialist Council of Nagaland
Government-in-exile: Government of the People’s Republic of Nagaland
Proposed state: Nagalim, or Peoples Republic of Nagaland
Manipur[citation needed]
Rebel organizations: Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People’s Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak[7]
Mizoram[citation needed]
Rebel organizations: Zomi Revolutionary Organization[citation needed], Mizoram Farmers Liberation Force[citation needed]
Proposed state: Zozam[citation needed]
Punjab
Proposed state: Khalistan
Rebel organizations: Khalistan Commando Force, Babbar Khalsa International, Khalistan Zindabad Force, International Sikh Youth Federation, Khalistan Liberation Force
Rayalaseema[citation needed]
Tamil Nadu[citation needed]
Rebel organizations: Tamil National Retrieval Troops, Tamil Nadu Liberation Army
Telangana
Political parties: Telangana Rashtra Samithi, seeking to separate Telangana from Andhra Pradesh state. Various other minor groups such as Jai Telangana Party, Telangana Communist Party, Telangana Janata Party, Telangana Praja Samithi, Telangana Rashtra Party, Telangana Rashtra Sadhana Front, Telangana Rashtra Samithi and Telangana Sadhana Samithi.
Tripura
Rebel organizations: National Liberation Front of Tripura (two factions operating), All Tripura Tiger Force
Vidarbha[citation needed]
Political parties: Vidarbha Rajya Party, Vidarbha Vikas Party, seeking to separate Vidarbha from Maharashtra.
Zomi[citation needed]
Political parties: Zomi National Congress[citation needed]

if you'd read further...most of these movements have been falsely reported....did you try clicking onto them?you'd know once you would.

[Guba]

Originally Posted by L'Indien

Just need to clear a few misconceptions here regarding the name Hindustan:

"Hindustan" (like the name India itself) is derived from the river "Indus". Hindustan is an ancient persian term which means "the land of the dwellers on Indus". Even the term Hindu (a persian term derived from the sanskrit term sindhu for river indus) comes from the same river name and means "the dweller on Indus".
The point is that it has nothing to do with religion, its a historical term. The name Hindu was used in ancient times for all the dwellers of Northern India.

Hindustan- "Historical term, usually applied to the Ganges Plain of North India, between the Himalayas in the north and the Deccan plateau in the south. Used variably throughout Indian history—generally in contradistinction to the Deccan of peninsular India—it gradually came to mean the whole of N India from the Punjab to Assam. The term Hindustan has also been applied to the whole Indian subcontinent."

makes India Hindustan

[L'Indien]

Originally Posted by Guba

makes India Hindustan

yeah....and???

[devd]

india makes a huge progress , i am not sure about other countries.

[ANDUBYLL]

Rebel organization: Karbi National Volunteers
Rebel organizations: Hmar People's Convention–Democrat,
Gondwana Ganatantra Party

Really scratching the bottom of the barrel here. Most of them are a joke with hardly any members involved in terrorist activities against the state of India.

If you start calling an organisation of 20 members , most of them already left or incaceration , a terrorist organisation, people will start questioning your credibility.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by paritosh

if you'd read further...most of these movements have been falsely reported....did you try clicking onto them?you'd know once you would.

I thought these were reported by your government, and also carried in the jingoistic Times of India, both in 2008 and 2009?

[Khajur]

Out of three countries ,pakistan alway had better chance do well as a country.Its economy was doing great during the sixties.

But then pakistan become the cold war general for USA,things changed . Though it won the cold war for USA ,its still recovering from its side effects.

The Zia era islamisation and proxy war with india over kahsmir made pakistan completely lost the focus and strive to become a modern economy .

No nation or person can move forward while eyes still looking backward.
Pakistan would have been another Turkey,but now its clubbed with failed states like Afghanistan or Somalia.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by Khajur

Out of three countries ,pakistan alway had better chance do well as a country.Its economy was doing great during the sixties.

There was no 'chance', West Pakistan started of the poorest and least developed of the three current nations - India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Even the administrative infrastructure did not exist, with Jinnah and his government operating out of makeshift offices.

The growth in the sixties and later was entirely due to the correct policies followed at the time and hard work by Pakistanis, not some 'chance', and the advantage was frittered away by subsequent poor policies, economic and political.

Despite all that stop and go economic development, and the slowdown post 2007, Pakistan is still largely at the same level as India in terms of per capita indicators, as I mentioned earlier. Once the scourge of terrorism is banished, I see Pakistan rapidly progressing once again -now we need to get that poverty rate down from 17% to under 10%!

But then pakistan become the cold war general for USA,things changed . Though it won the cold war for USA ,its still recovering from its side effects.

I agree that the repercussions of the Afghan Jihad have played a part in the current terrorism in Pakistan, but the Jihad itself was not the issue, the subsequent abandonment of Afghanistan IMO was.

The Zia era islamisation and proxy war with india over kahsmir made pakistan completely lost the focus and strive to become a modern economy .

Disagree - Zia's Islamization did not retard the economy, and the Kashmir freedom movement definitely did not. Corruption, poor socio-economic policies and political instability did.

No nation or person can move forward while eyes still looking backward.
Pakistan would have been another Turkey,but now its clubbed with failed states like Afghanistan or Somalia.

Now that is just a flame - I challenge you to show me how Somalia and Afghanistan compare to Pakistan in terms of economy, stability, development and functioning governments.

Just because some institution takes random markers and assigns numbers to them and clubs Pakistan with certain nations does not say anything about the reality of the situation and how Pakistan is generations ahead of either of those two nations.

All in all, a very poor and inaccurate analysis - primarily meant to be self serving and self validating in terms of India.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by Khajur

Out of three countries ,pakistan alway had better chance do well as a country.Its economy was doing great during the sixties.

But then pakistan become the cold war general for USA,things changed . Though it won the cold war for USA ,its still recovering from its side effects.

The Zia era islamisation and proxy war with india over kahsmir made pakistan completely lost the focus and strive to become a modern economy .

No nation or person can move forward while eyes still looking backward.
Pakistan would have been another Turkey,but now its clubbed with failed states like Afghanistan or Somalia.

Zia actually focused more on development of miltery and defence but reduced our national debt to level of 7 Bill USD.During Nawaz and Benazir eleven years again debt raised to 40 bill USD ,Mussaraf regime added 4 more billion .

WOT cost Pakistan 20 Bill USD , which actually break back bone of our economy and from 2007 Pakistan again listed in fail state.

We should stop US support in WOT which is further dragging PAKISTAN towards poverty and inflation.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by devd

india makes a huge progress , i am not sure about other countries.

Recently , indian government has given highest deficit budget in last sixteen years, reason is indian rupee is gaining strength and exports of indian products are badly effected , if this trend continue for one decade , then poverty level will furthure increases .The benfit of development is not going to grass root level as result inflation will increase and unemployment will further increase.

India heavly invested in infrastructure in last ten years and have billion USD surplus money , which india is trying to buy oil assets ie Iraq and making joint ventures with brazil and other countries.

Indians are on top of list of black money depositers (1500 Bill USD) in swiss banks LOLZZZ.

Present development in India is totally because of black money which by any means returning home.

[Khajur]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

There was no 'chance', West Pakistan started of the poorest and least developed of the three current nations - India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Even the administrative infrastructure did not exist, with Jinnah and his government operating out of makeshift offices.

The growth in the sixties and later was entirely due to the correct policies followed at the time and hard work by Pakistanis, not some 'chance', and the advantage was frittered away by subsequent poor policies, economic and political.

Despite all that stop and go economic development, and the slowdown post 2007, Pakistan is still largely at the same level as India in terms of per capita indicators, as I mentioned earlier. Once the scourge of terrorism is banished, I see Pakistan rapidly progressing once again -now we need to get that poverty rate down from 17% to under 10%!


I agree that the repercussions of the Afghan Jihad have played a part in the current terrorism in Pakistan, but the Jihad itself was not the issue, the subsequent abandonment of Afghanistan IMO was.

Disagree - Zia's Islamization did not retard the economy, and the Kashmir freedom movement definitely did not. Corruption, poor socio-economic policies and political instability did.



Now that is just a flame - I challenge you to show me how Somalia and Afghanistan compare to Pakistan in terms of economy, stability, development and functioning governments.

Just because some institution takes random markers and assigns numbers to them and clubs Pakistan with certain nations does not say anything about the reality of the situation and how Pakistan is generations ahead of either of those two nations.

All in all, a very poor and inaccurate analysis - primarily meant to be self serving and self validating in terms of India.

one shouldn't give too much importance to self motivational stories like "Jinnah and his operating out of makeshift offices" that appear school books,should they?

As i said it always had a better'chance'for several reasons i thought u alreay knew.And u had good growth in the sixties and later due to those attributes combined with correct policies and favourable international situations.

what happened after that??

But why pakistan stared defaulting on WB loans??

U may or may not agree,pakistans economic failures lies not Afghanistan war,but in the policies of its aftermath...creating Talibani monster in the name of strategic deepth and engaging in proxy wars with india and speanding limited resources on military objectives like kargil,siachen and huge sum of money in bulinding its nuclear and missile arsenal to match india.

And i'm just quoting international institution of repute when i club pakistan with certain nations'.Now again u may not agree or their opinions may not be exactly accurate.But their impression certainly carries lot of weight which inturn can futher impede investments in pakistan.As always onus like on pakistan like any other country how u showcase ur country in front of the world.