After partition: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh

[Joshi]

Originally Posted by s90

Then wait for 10 more yrs

Other than that i would like to add PK has largest WiMAX network in the whole world and cheapest broadband in the region,mobile phone penetration rate also more than India and China.

No longer I suppose.
Tata Plans World's Largest Wimax Network
The Indian telco plans a system of 3,000 base stations to deliver limited or full broadband service to 110 cities
Tata Plans World's Largest Wimax Network

[s90]

Originally Posted by Joshi

Forex reserves are not like pocket money which can be taken out and spent on anything needed.
.
Forex reserves act as a guarantee to the lender that the borrower will not default on the loan. India has to fund a huge fiscal deficit and huge Trade Gap as well. If a country has less amount of Forex Reserves, then the Interest paid for the loan is higher.
.
In short Forex Reserves is not hard cash meant to be spent at will, but is like a property, acting as a guarantee to the lender that its money is safe with you.
.
That is why high Forex is needed by India, as India also takes loans from World Bank, IMF, and ADB.

My point was u folks got alot of money like u are getting fighter jets for $10B!

[Joshi]

Originally Posted by s90

Some examples:-



2.The US is importing UAVs designed and built in Pakistan to protect America’s borders.

Are you serious? Really I mean. Give a link please.

3.Citations of Pakistani scientific publications are rising sharply

Link needed again.

4.12.The world’s youngest Microsoft Certified Professional is a Pakistani

The record has been broken, by a 8-year Indian girl.

Nine-year old Indian girl youngest Microsoft Certified Professional – The Next Web
Now its a 8 year Macedonian boy.
There is more
Boy on verge of being world’s youngest 3D animator - Express India

But it makes no sense in this thread.

5.Pakistani students excelled in MIT’s global software talent competition

Good.

6.Over two dozen Pakistani scientists are working on the Large Hadron Collider; the grandest experiment in the history of Physics

From all over the world scientists are there. Nothing special.

7.Gartner(world’s leading information technology research and advisory company) released a report titled, “Analysis of Pakistan as an Offshore Service Location” which placed the country in the First Category destinations and also acknowledged that Pakistan’s labour costs were 30% lower than India’s, while Telecom costs were the lowest of any outsourcing destination.

Good, but still I dont see any companies outsourcing major deals to Pakistan. Why?

[applesauce]

one thing about broadband, speed which constitutes broadband vary throughout the world you could have 90% of ur people on braodband but they're connection might be 128 kbps or you could have 50 of people on broadband but those that are connected could be running t1 lines

[khanz]

Even though india got majority resources and infrastructure i have to give it to them one really great thing india did was land reforms after partition i wish pakistan had did the same it was huge blunder now we continue have feudal system because we weren't wise enough to get rid of it like india.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by Joshi

I meant by Pakistani companies.
The only car I have heard of from Pakistan is Adam Revo. A nice car, but unfortunately didn't come into mass production because of "un-favourable Government policies".

Does every successful country have its own 'car company'? Brands are either merging or being bought up by larger companies - by your yardstick Holland, Sweden and Switzerland would be 'failed states' because their car companies were unable to survive without being gobbled up by larger corporations from other nations, or because they never had ones to begin with.

Its a rather absurd line of logic you are pursuing.

Pakistan may not have successful brands of its own in terms of car manufacturers, but it has a successful manufacturing and assembling sector. Just focusing on the auto sector for example, local deletion levels range from 90% to 40%, depending upon the type of vehicle.

.
Population of Finland is 1000th lesser than the US.
Pakistan is only 1/2 of US.
.
Tiny countries like Norway, Finland can survive without big corporations because of smaller population, but large populous countries like India and Pakistan need big corporations to generate mass employment. A corporation of a large country portrays the business ability of its citizens.
.
Its an excuse that Pakistan do not need big corporations of its own to improve the lives of its people.
.

I disagree - just as there is no need for every country to have a successful auto company to not be declared a failed state, it is similarly not necessary that every country have corporations in the fortune 500 or X numbers of billionaires to be considered successful.

If favorable market conditions exist (political stability and policy stability), then foreign or/and local companies will set up shop and provide employment. The Koreans and Japanese in Pakistan are an excellent example of that in terms of the auto sector which provides hundreds of thousands of jobs, both in direct manufacturing and assembling as well as the auto parts sector.

Again, this argument of being successful only if a country has 'X number billionaires or Y number huge corporations' is a fallacious one.

All right what has Pakistan achieved?
.
Can you tell all of us what Pakistan has achieved except a Nuclear Bomb in comparison to Somalia and Afghanistan. May you tell us the name of the R&D organizations in Pakistan, and the research they have contributed to recognized world over.
.
This will help the case, than plainly saying that Pakistan is ahead in R&D stuff.

Juts look at every sector of the economy - starting from the military and related nuclear sectors. Military applications are invariably the most expensive and high tech area given the stringent performance parameters - in that respect there has been R&D in the chemical sector (propellants, explosives, etc.) as well as metallurgy (armor, nuclear components, centrifuges etc.).

While you dismiss Pakistan's achievement in detonating the bomb, realize that you don't get to that point without developing expertise in several key high tech industrial areas (some of which I mentioned).

Also check out the WMD section - a sticky thread there lists all of the military research organizations that form NESCOM.

It is good to be updated. In many indicators India is almost at same level as Pakistan, and in many Pakistan is nowhere near India.
Here have a kind look...
This is from the United Nations website...
Human Development Report 2007/2008 - Country Fact Sheets - India
Statistical update 2008/2009 - Country Fact Sheets - Pakistan
.
.................................................. ..............India............................... .Pakistan......
HDI Value..........................................0.619....................................0.562
Life Expectancy............................63.7........ ...............................64.9
Adult Literacy Rate......................................61.........................................54.2
Combined school enrolment.....................63.8.........................................39.3
GDP Per Capita(PPP)....................................... ......3452.......................................2461
Human Poverty Index.......................31.3.........................................33.6
Children Underweight age..............47............................... ...........38
Female school Enrolment
as %age of males................................87.7.....................................78.3

.
India's data is from 2005, and Pakistan's from 2006(before the insurgency gathered steam in Pakistan)
.
Now I don's see any indicators in which Pakistan has been able to hold , at par with India.
.
So its proved now that Pakistan is not at par but, is behind India in most of HDI. Even Per capita GDP(PPP) as claimed before.

Fascinating:

From the CIA factbook (2008 estimates)

---------------------India-------------------------Pakistan

GDP----------------2800-------------------------2600 (2008 being the year Pakistan experienced extremely low growth, otherwise the difference would be even less).
Unemployment---6.8% (2008 est.)-------------7.4% (2008 est.)
-------------------7.2% (2007 est.)-------------5.6% (2007 est.)
Again, we see that unemployment was significantly lower in Pakistan compared to India in 2007, until the extremely poor 2008 year.
Poverty-----------25%--------------------------24%---------------

Pakistan has slightly lower poverty levels than India as well. By the way, the WB and independent Pakistani institutions have calculated the 2008 Pakistan poverty rate to be around 17%, which is a significant improvement.

17% Poverty rate in Pakistan - World Bank

The rest of the numbers largely bear out my argument that the per capita indicators are largely close, with Pakistan ahead in some and India in others.

It would be interesting to see how Pakistan's HDI index is impacted with the more current numbers I provided on the per capita GDP and if the WB estimated poverty numbers are accepted.

Not true. As I said, all the functioning institutions in India were started post-independence except 1-2 exceptions.
.
As I already said the only thing in name of industrialization in India in 1947 were some Jute mills in Bengal and Textile mills in Bombay.
All the industrial development in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Delhi region, etc. took place after independence.
Literacy of India, WP and EP were almost same according to my knowledge. If you have some contrary credible proof, then kindly show it.

Please read pages 996-997.
The Cambridge economic history of India - Google Books

As the authors state, the manufacturing industry in Pakistan was minimal, and a large part of Pakistan's trade with India involved the import of manufactured goods, with exports of agricultural goods - that would not be possible unless India had an existing Industrial base.

Secondly, on the issue of developed institutions and infrastructure, this is a self evident argument. The British administrative seat of power was based in what is today India, and while the British treated their colonies poorly, they nonetheless had to govern them, which meant that all of their governing and administrative machinery was in India.

.
I am really shocked to read this. Really.
.
This is a comparison between EP and WP from 1947-1971. Bangladesh was a part of Pakistan till 1971, and the report say that it had no or little up-gradation in educational levels and infrastructure from 1947 to 1971, whereas in West Pakistan in the same period, educational levels increased dramatically. So this is primarily the mistake, not the superiority of West Paksitani Central Govt. This is nothing to boast of. A part of a county for 25 years lagged in education, in comparison to the other part, is no boasting for the other part, knowing the fact that the Central Govt was in that other part as well.
.
This shows the neglect of East Pakistan by the Central Govt. of Pakistan from 1947 to 1971 in Education front. So much so that a good level of education in one part of Pakistan in 1947 did not keep pace with the other part of Pakistan. And people will still say that it was India's conspiracy to break Pakistan in 1971.
.
Why was this neglect shown to East Pakistan, which led to de-gradation of educational levels there?

Whether neglect was shown or whether it was a case of 'progressive taxation/development' (focusing development on the less developed West Pakistan) is a matter for another thread.

The point I think has been sufficiently made that East Pakistan started off with better educational and industrial infrastructure (one of the gripes the Bengali nationalist movement had with WP was that EP contributed a majority of the revenue - more industry in EP - but did not retain all of it.).
[/quote]
And lastly I never said Pakistan is equivalent to Afghanistan and Somalia, and neither I am going to prove anything which I did not say. Also I said in my previous to previous post that Pakistan is some-what better than Somali and Afghanistan. You assumed that I was trying to do that. My point was the comparison between post-independence India and Pakistan.[/QUOTE]
If you were not trying to equate Pakistan with Somalia and Afghanistan, you would not have tried to defend the conclusions of the clearly flawed 'failed states index'. You stand exposed on that count and are now dissembling to find a way out.

---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Joshi

No longer I suppose.
Tata Plans World's Largest Wimax Network
The Indian telco plans a system of 3,000 base stations to deliver limited or full broadband service to 110 cities
Tata Plans World's Largest Wimax Network

Achievements are meant to be broken - the point is that plenty of evidence has been presented documenting Pakistani achievements. You need to look beyond your anti-Pakistan agenda and bias to recognize that.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by Joshi

Are you serious? Really I mean. Give a link please.

How about you do some research yourself? Life is not 'links', though going by how repetitive such 'links please' demands are from some Indians, it might as well be the case for them.

South Asia Investor Review: Pakistan Exporting UAVs to America

Link needed again.

Pakistan tops the list of countries with fastest growing Scientific citations Tech Lahore

The record has been broken, by a 8-year Indian girl.

As I said earlier, records are made to be broken - the point is that Pakistan has achieved milestones.

Good.

Would have liked to see you choking as you typed that something complimentary to Pakistan.

Good, but still I dont see any companies outsourcing major deals to Pakistan. Why?

Political instability, terrorism and infrastructural bottlenecks.

According to figures available from the Pakistan Software Export Board (PSEB), IT exports have grown by 50% in each of the past three years - reaching $1.4bn in the financial year ending June 2007.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan raring to go in IT sector

The point is not about 'large outsourcing deals' just as it is not about having X number of fortune 500 corporations or Y number of billionaires. Its about trying to post growth consistently and continuously improving.

[s90]

Thank you AM for replying to Joshi's queries.

One more example i would like to add :-

National Centre of Physics (NCP) of Pakistan is involved in a number of LHC-related activities such as detector construction, detector simulation, physics analysis and Grid computing. Several other Pakistani institutes are also collaborating with CERN indirectly through the NCP. The activities of these institutes cover areas such as software development, manufacturing of mechanical equipment, alignment of the CMS tracker using lasers, and the testing of electronic equipment.

And also Pakistan Steel Mill provided steel for this LHC project because of its high quality.

[Su 30mki]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

.

Fascinating:

From the CIA factbook (2008 estimates)

---------------------India-------------------------Pakistan

GDP----------------2800-------------------------2600 (2008 being the year Pakistan experienced extremely low growth, otherwise the difference would be even less).
Unemployment---6.8% (2008 est.)-------------7.4% (2008 est.)
-------------------7.2% (2007 est.)-------------5.6% (2007 est.)
Again, we see that unemployment was significantly lower in Pakistan compared to India in 2007, until the extremely poor 2008 year.
Poverty-----------25%--------------------------24%---------------

Pakistan has slightly lower poverty levels than India as well. By the way, the WB and independent Pakistani institutions have calculated the 2008 Pakistan poverty rate to be around 17%, which is a significant improvement.

17% Poverty rate in Pakistan - World Bank

The rest of the numbers largely bear out my argument that the per capita indicators are largely close, with Pakistan ahead in some and India in others.

It would be interesting to see how Pakistan's HDI index is impacted with the more current numbers I provided on the per capita GDP and if the WB estimated poverty numbers are accepted.

Please read pages 996-997.
The Cambridge economic history of India - Google Books

---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

Achievements are meant to be broken - the point is that plenty of evidence has been presented documenting Pakistani achievements. You need to look beyond your anti-Pakistan agenda and bias to recognize that.

Kindly ask your source to update their Database and you also See some More Source to rely.

As per 2008 Figure

India :

GDP (PPP) : 3.228 Trillion
Per capita : 2762 USD

GDP(Nominal) : 1.2 Trillion
Per capita : 1016 USD


Pakistan
GDP (PPP) : 439.6 Billion
Per Capita: 2738 USD

GDP (Nominal) : 167.6 Billion
Per Capita: 1044 USD

BTW Indian Economy already cross Trillion Mark in 2007 .

As per HID in 2008
India HID as per 2008 is .609 (132th )
Pak HID is 0.562 (139th )

[paritosh]

Originally Posted by s90

Thank you AM for replying to Joshi's queries.

One more example i would like to add :-

National Centre of Physics (NCP) of Pakistan is involved in a number of LHC-related activities such as detector construction, detector simulation, physics analysis and Grid computing. Several other Pakistani institutes are also collaborating with CERN indirectly through the NCP. The activities of these institutes cover areas such as software development, manufacturing of mechanical equipment, alignment of the CMS tracker using lasers, and the testing of electronic equipment.

And also Pakistan Steel Mill provided steel for this LHC project because of its high quality.

Pakistan is donig good scientifically but you cannot compare the indian contribution to the LHC and CERN to pakistan's.We are one of the largest non-european contributors...we have an observer status shared only by the US and Japan.Indian scientists are at supervisory positions there...BARC has sent large numbers of magnetrons

CERN - A global endeavour

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

the jacks supplied by India make an importan contribution to the running of the LHC..
Indian jacks support world's biggest accelerator at CERN | Science and Technology News | Earth Science Articles | Updates Technology news | Technology Article | News | Latest News | News Today | International Reporter

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

Big Bang test: India's flag flies high at CERN
India has provided half the number of total magnets in the big bang project.

[dabong1]

Originally Posted by Patriot

India has beaten Pakistan economically.You cannot compare India with Pakistan period.Pakistan is way behind now economically and socially plus India is secular and united where as in Pakistan we have too many internal problems and people are crying for extreme Shria Laws.Pakistan due to coups and political choas failed where as India is very strong today thanks to it's democracy and political stability.Pakistan can recover but the Mullahs needs to be stopped preaching Wahabism all over Pakistan.

Has the western loving elite been running the country for the last 60 years or the mullahs..?

Trying to pin the blame on the mullahs is the easy way out......blame those in power....western loving elite.

[paritosh]

there are about 2oo indian scientists working with CERN...India has cotributed 75 million$ worth of hardware.

[s90]

Originally Posted by paritosh

Pakistan is donig good scientifically but you cannot compare the indian contribution to the LHC and CERN to pakistan's.We are one of the largest non-european contributors...we have an observer status shared only by the US and Japan.Indian scientists are at supervisory positions there...BARC has sent large numbers of magnetrons

CERN - A global endeavour

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

the jacks supplied by India make an importan contribution to the running of the LHC..
Indian jacks support world's biggest accelerator at CERN | Science and Technology News | Earth Science Articles | Updates Technology news | Technology Article | News | Latest News | News Today | International Reporter

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

Big Bang test: India's flag flies high at CERN

Man im not saying that India aint doing well offcourse u guys have lot of resources and better infrastructure than PK right from independence.

My main point is Pakistan isnt "failed" state as some of our Indian memebers think.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Su 30mki

Kindly ask your source to update their Database and you also See some More Source to rely.

As per 2008 Figure

India :

GDP (PPP) : 3.228 Trillion
Per capita : 2762 USD

GDP(Nominal) : 1.2 Trillion
Per capita : 1016 USD


Pakistan
GDP (PPP) : 439.6 Billion
Per Capita: 2738 USD

GDP (Nominal) : 167.6 Billion
Per Capita: 1044 USD

BTW Indian Economy already cross Trillion Mark in 2007 .

As per HID in 2008
India HID as per 2008 is .609 (132th )
Pak HID is 0.562 (139th )

Offcourse India has bigger economy because of its size and population,you also have to see how ur economic wealth get distributed among ur billion people population.

[paritosh]

@S90
if india and pakistan improve relations...our co-operation would cause ripples in the scientific world mate.
potential is the word.

[s90]

Originally Posted by paritosh

@S90
if india and pakistan improve relations...our co-operation would cause ripples in the scientific world mate.
potential is the word.

Yes true and it would help expand both countries economy also,scop is too big even literature because both countries have almost same language.

But unfortunately establishments of both countries never learned.