After partition: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh

[paritosh]

Originally Posted by s90

Yes true and it would help expand both countries economy also,scop is too big even literature because both countries have almost same language.

But unfortunately establishments of both countries never learned.

it's politics.abhi tak dono mulk ek doosre ko daba kar uppar uthne ki koshish karte ayen hai...let's hope better sense prevails.

[Joshi]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

Does every successful country have its own 'car company'?

I was talking symbolically. If car industry is not an example you like, then you can pick any industry. Steel? Real Estate? Textiles? Chemical? Tourism?
.
Any Solid example of any industry? I would like to know. Not intended as a pun, as you might assume my attitude to be.

Brands are either merging or being bought up by larger companies - by your yardstick Holland, Sweden and Switzerland would be 'failed states' because their car companies were unable to survive without being gobbled up by larger corporations from other nations, or because they never had ones to begin with.

Is there any need to compare Pakistan to Scandevian countries and Switzerland? Is there anything worthwhile comparison?
Pakistan has such a big population in comparison to these tiny countries, again I am mentioning, which do not need large corporations to support their little population.

Its a rather absurd line of logic you are pursuing.

Is it absurd to say that comparison between Finland and Pakistan cannot be done on these terms?

Pakistan may not have successful brands of its own in terms of car manufacturers, but it has a successful manufacturing and assembling sector.

Excellent.
And I didn't choke. But, when it comes to assembly lines of other country's companies, the 'Pakistani Businessmen' do not come into picture. Labourers and engineers do, 'indigenous businessmen' don't.

I disagree - just as there is no need for every country to have a successful auto company to not be declared a failed state

Again an assumption. I never said Pakistan to be a failed state. It is not.
If it is ranked 10 on Failed State Index then it does not mean that Pakistan is 10th most failed state. Rather it means that 171 other countries are 'less failed' than Pakistan, according to that index.
In my opinion there is no fail or pass state.

it is similarly not necessary that every country have corporations in the fortune 500 or X numbers of billionaires to be considered successful.

No its not. But its just a parameter.
It is not necessary to work hard if one is intelligent. But the fact that despite being good at brain he does no hard work, gives a parametric assumption of his ability.
Just like that saying on one hand that Pakistani businessmen are capable like any other businessmen in the world, and on the other hand saying that big indigenous businesses are not needed(or are absent), are contradictory.

If Pakistani businessmen are capable as you claim, then no one can stop them from making world-class companies.
Pakistan is 2.46% of world population.
Kindly don't compare it with countries comprising of only 0.1% of world population.
But still to make my point:-
Sweden - World class company - Saab.
Switzerland - Hub of world banking.
Finland - World's largest Cell-Phone maker - Nokia.
.

Juts look at every sector of the economy - starting from the military and related nuclear sectors. Military applications are invariably the most expensive and high tech area given the stringent performance parameters - in that respect there has been R&D in the chemical sector (propellants, explosives, etc.) as well as metallurgy (armor, nuclear components, centrifuges etc.).

All things Military related. All of them.
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Any R&D except in military field?

While you dismiss Pakistan's achievement in detonating the bomb,

I never did.

realize that you don't get to that point without developing expertise in several key high tech industrial areas (some of which I mentioned).

That's when I wonder despite being so capable in military related R&D, what is holding Pakistan back in civilian and peace time R&D?

If you were not trying to equate Pakistan with Somalia and Afghanistan, you would not have tried to defend the conclusions of the clearly flawed 'failed states index'. You stand exposed on that count and are now dissembling to find a way out.

I clearly mentioned in the same post that Pakistan is better than Somalia and Afghanistan.

Achievements are meant to be broken - the point is that plenty of evidence has been presented documenting Pakistani achievements. You need to look beyond your anti-Pakistan agenda and bias to recognize that.

I have no anti-anyone agenda.
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I am just putting forward my views. I don't know what seemed anti-Pakistani to anyone. If it really were, then you have your Mod powers.
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But these views of mine are rational, and any person who understood its depth, even Pakistani, will stand by it.
.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Originally Posted by Joshi

I was talking symbolically. If car industry is not an example you like, then you can pick any industry. Steel? Real Estate? Textiles? Chemical? Tourism?

Sure, all of them have a substantial presence in the economy with many run by Pakistanis.
.

Any Solid example of any industry? I would like to know. Not intended as a pun, as you might assume my attitude to be.

Check the KSE - Automotive, pharma, real estate, oil&gas, processed foods, etc.

Is there any need to compare Pakistan to Scandevian countries and Switzerland? Is there anything worthwhile comparison?
Pakistan has such a big population in comparison to these tiny countries, again I am mentioning, which do not need large corporations to support their little population.

Is it absurd to say that comparison between Finland and Pakistan cannot be done on these terms?

The comparison is not absurd since the presences of mega corporations and billionaires do not make a state successful, the quality of life and socio-economic indicators do.

Excellent.
And I didn't choke. But, when it comes to assembly lines of other country's companies, the 'Pakistani Businessmen' do not come into picture. Labourers and engineers do, 'indigenous businessmen' don't.

Pakistani businessmen are definitely in the picture, becasue in many cases they run the local subsidiaries. The marketing, sales, expansion of the company etc. within Pakistan is their responsibility.

Again an assumption. I never said Pakistan to be a failed state. It is not.
If it is ranked 10 on Failed State Index then it does not mean that Pakistan is 10th most failed state. Rather it means that 171 other countries are 'less failed' than Pakistan, according to that index.
In my opinion there is no fail or pass state.

It does not mean 171 other states are less failed at all, since I illustrated already that the index is completely flawed on certain parameters.

If Pakistani businessmen are capable as you claim, then no one can stop them from making world-class companies.

Definitely - we will make them, let the terrorism be controlled and political stability last awhile.

All things Military related. All of them.
.
Any R&D except in military field?

Sure - all the local businesses put out new products - can't do that without R&D. Someone else already posted how scientific publications are also on the rise.

That's when I wonder despite being so capable in military related R&D, what is holding Pakistan back in civilian and peace time R&D?

The government can pump in billions into the military R&D for the sake of national security, but private companies can only match that amount if they have the market size and sales to justify it.

India has a 200 million middle class, even with 26% poverty. Thats a huge market for domestic industry to grow in even if the products start of as quite mediocre, which many Indian products until late were. But the large market size and resultant large sales offer Indian companies a lot more resources and capital to play with in terms of R&D.

I clearly mentioned in the same post that Pakistan is better than Somalia and Afghanistan.

If you state that Pakistan is not a failed state and not comparable to Somalia, then there is nothing further to discuss.

Pakistan will continue progressing, as it has - whether slowly or rapidly depends upon whether the internal challenges related to terrorism, political stability and severe infrastructural bottlenecks are met.

[EyelessInGaza]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

...........
Pakistan will continue progressing, as it has - whether slowly or rapidly depends upon whether the internal challenges related to terrorism, political stability and severe infrastructural bottlenecks are met.

In my experience, one thing will be critical above all - attitudes. The past 200 odd years of global economic development which is largely driven by western nations rests on a 'software' that is loosely a mix of culture, ideas and beliefs that are practised not in books but in real life by the common man- rationalism, respect for the law, liberalism of thought, scientific enquiry etc.

This is IMO a critical driver of stable economic success. Nations such as Japan/ Korea take some (not all) of these qualities in strong measure.

OTOH, the developing nations tend to be more tribal, familial, parochial etc. It is fascinating to see the transition occurring in India, be it ever so slowly. The old time businessmen and the lalas- textile, scooters, etc - whom lorded it over all were wiped out in the 90s. They simply failed to make the transformation - wanted to do all business through 'the back door', did not give employees any power to make decisions, no management practices in place etc.

Those guys are now hollow shells - no one even looks at them, where once they were our merchant princes. It all happened in 10 years.

[IAF]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

After partition: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh

MILITARY
STRATEGIC BALANCE
DEFENCE BUDGETS
India: $22.10bn;
2.57% of GDP (2006)
Pakistan: $4.54bn;
3.14% of GDP (2007)
Bangladesh: $687m;
2.24% of GDP (2006 estimate)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARMED FORCES (total strength)
India: 1,324,000
Pakistan: 570,000
Bangladesh: 115,500

TANKS
India: 3,978 main battle tanks including 1,133 in reserve
Pakistan: 2,461 main battle tanks including 1,100 in reserve
Bangladesh: 180 (claimed)

COMBAT AIRCRAFT
India: Air Force: 763, Navy: 34
Pakistan: Air Force: 352, Navy: 16
Bangladesh: 62

SUBMARINES
India: 16
Pakistan: 8
Bangladesh: none

COMBAT SHIPS
India: 58
Pakistan: 12
Bangladesh: 5 (frigates only - 3 of limited use)
Source: IISS 2007 Military Balance/ Jane's Country Risk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NUCLEAR WEAPONS (estimated total warheads)
India: 50 - 90
Pakistan: 30-60
Bangladesh: none
Sources: SIPRI Yearbook 2006/NRDC

MILITARY
STRATEGIC BALANCE
DEFENCE BUDGETS
India: $28.4bn;
2.00% of GDP (2009)http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2009-10(I)/eb/sbe27.pdf
DAWN.COM | Business | India boosts defence, agriculture spending

Pakistan: $4.54bn;
3.14% of GDP (2007)

Bangladesh: $687m;
2.24% of GDP (2006 estimate)

ARMED FORCES (total strength)(Last Updated)
India: 1,324,000 (3,773,300)
Pakistan: 570,000 (1,530,000)
Bangladesh: 115,500 (200,200)

TANKS (Last Updated)
India: 3,978 main battle tanks including 1,133 in reserve (5,000+)
Pakistan: 2,461 main battle tanks including 1,100 in reserve ( 3,300+)
Bangladesh: 180 (claimed) (180+)

COMBAT AIRCRAFT (Last Updated)
India: Air Force: 763, Navy: 34 (1,130+)(34)Air Force Equipment
Pakistan: Air Force: 352, Navy: 16(554+)(16)Pakistan Air Force Equipment
Bangladesh: 62 (158+)

SUBMARINES (Last Updated)
India: 16 (16 not included ATV to be lunched later this month)Indian Navy Welcomes you
Pakistan: 8 (10) .: PAKISTAN NAVY :. A Silent Force to Reckon with... [ a 4 dimensional force]
Bangladesh: none

COMBAT SHIPS
India: 58 (76+) Indian Navy Welcomes you
Pakistan: 12 (20) .: PAKISTAN NAVY :. A Silent Force to Reckon with... [ a 4 dimensional force]
Bangladesh: 10 (frigates only - 5)

AIRCRAFT CARRIERS
India: 01
Pakistan: 00
Bangladesh: 00

[IAF]

Originally Posted by Omar1984

China is communist. Buddhists are not Communists.

Names of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The first Article of the Constitution of India states that "India, that is Bharat, shall be a union of states." Thus, India and Bharat are equally official short names for the Republic of India, while "Hindustan" is still widely used as an alternative name when Indians speak amongst themselves. "Hindustan" is also used in historical contexts (especially British India). Indians commonly refer to their country as Bharat, Hindustan or India depending on the context and language of conversation.



Ever watched the Indian film, "Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani", that was released just in this decade?


Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani. Translation : "But the heart is still Indian"
Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sharuk khan is also a muslim but the difference is he is a INDIAN

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Thread closed since it has served its purpose.