Hazrat Ayesha's Age at Marriage.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Chanakya:
The whole argument against Hazrat Ayesha being that young is that those Hadith are not true. I posted links earlier on that discuss this issue, along with an excerpt of the scholars argument against Hadith that suggest that she was that young.

Here it is again:

What was <i>Ayesha's</i> (ra) Age at the Time of Her Marriage to the Prophet (pbuh)?

Do you have any new information that might suggest that the Hadith you quoted are correct?

[Chanakya]

please realize that Hadith that were collected by the most honorable of men, such as Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim, are named Sahih for that reason. They are true, and the Sunni Muslims take them to be accurate reporting of the words of the Prophet If we took the Hadith merely to be words that are 'ascribed' to him, then much of the Sharia'h would not exist nor have any background.

Abu Bakr, being an intimate companion of the Prophet narrated few hadith in light of the fact that he was very close to the Prophet .He, and as the other narrators of Hadith, were so in fear of misquoting the Prophet , that he only narrated those instances where he knew the entire conversation by heart. Many Hadith were not included in the Sahih just because of the fact that the narrators were not sure of a single word.

The Qur'an itself was compiled by the very people who narrate the Hadith, as it was not in written form until the Caliphate of Abu Bakr as-Saddiq. The same people who memorized and narrated the Qur'an word for word, related Hadith word for word. The narrators of hadith were great scholars, who had memorized the entire Qur'an and many other Hadith besides their own

[Chanakya]

Muslims agree that Aisha was only 9 years old when the Prophet married her. The following site makes no apology for her young age and accuses the modernists for humbugging the Westerns morality and denying the truth.

http://admin.muslimsonline.com/~isla...cs/aishah.html

This site also defends Muhammad for marrying Aisha at 9 claiming that girls reach puberty at that age and therefore are considered adult and having sex with them at such tender age is acceptable.

http://bismikaallahuma.faithweb.com/aishah.html

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Chanakya:

Muslims do not agree on Hazrat Ayesha's age - why do you think there is a thread on the issue?

With respect to the Hadith, almost all Muslim scholars recognize that, unlike the Quran, the Hadith are not infallible. While the Quran was deliberately memorized for the sake of preservation and continuity of "Allah's word", there was no such obligation for the Hadith, and they remain "narrations" passed on from generation to generation until put down on paper.

That the Hadith are not considered infallible is also illustrated by the fact that the different schools of thought within Islam do not agree on the same set of hadith (Shia vs Sunni) whereas they all agree on the same Quran.

Please read the arguments presented by the gentleman in that link, against Hadith that suggest Ayesha's age to be 7 or 9, and offer rebuttals if you can.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Here are the main points again:

"To begin with[1], I think it is the responsibility of all those who believe that marrying a girl as young as nine years old was an accepted norm of the Arab culture, to provide at least a few examples to substantiate their point of view. I have not yet been able to find a single reliable instance in the books of Arab history where a girl as young as nine years old was given away in marriage. Unless such examples are given, we do not have any reasonable grounds to believe that it really was an accepted norm.

In my opinion, the age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly misreported in the narratives of the incident. Not only that, I think that the narratives reporting this event are not only highly unreliable but also that on the basis of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely happening. Let us look at the issue from an objective stand point. My reservations in accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are:

*

Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.
*

It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy-one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have shifted after living in Medinah for seventy-one years.
*

Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq (Vol. 11, pg. 48 - 51).
*

Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly (Vol. 4, pg. 301 - 302).
*

According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not even only an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why should we not accept this narrative to be more accurate.
*

According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden upon them.
*

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
*

Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she most likely got married.
*

According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not even have been born during the first year of Islam.
*

Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr (ra) planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam. Subsequently, his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
*

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
*

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.

These are some of the major points that go against accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage.

In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Ayesha (ra) at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated."

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

Muslims agree that Aisha was only 9 years old when the Prophet married her. The following site makes no apology for her young age and accuses the modernists for humbugging the Westerns morality and denying the truth.

http://admin.muslimsonline.com/~isla...cs/aishah.html

This site also defends Muhammad for marrying Aisha at 9 claiming that girls reach puberty at that age and therefore are considered adult and having sex with them at such tender age is acceptable.

http://bismikaallahuma.faithweb.com/aishah.html

Muslims do primarily say that EVEN IF her age was 9, it was exactly according to Arab customs of that time. To marry off the girl when she is physically matured (after puberty). All descriptions of Aysha's beauty point to the fact that she had crossed puberty.

It's not saying anything about having sex is acceptable or not. It's just saying that was the custom of that time. She was not married off to a pedophile. Other than Aysha the rest of his wives were adults by our modern standards and some were even old widows.

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

please realize that Hadith that were collected by the most honorable of men, such as Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim, are named Sahih for that reason. They are true, and the Sunni Muslims take them to be accurate reporting of the words of the Prophet If we took the Hadith merely to be words that are 'ascribed' to him, then much of the Sharia'h would not exist nor have any background.

They have academic and theological and much can be learnt from them but they are not the word of God. They have been collected by some very pious and honorable people who put in a lot of effort to verify them from all the hearsay traditions that were being passed down.

Abu Bakr, being an intimate companion of the Prophet narrated few hadith in light of the fact that he was very close to the Prophet .He, and as the other narrators of Hadith, were so in fear of misquoting the Prophet , that he only narrated those instances where he knew the entire conversation by heart. Many Hadith were not included in the Sahih just because of the fact that the narrators were not sure of a single word.

As good as they are, they are the words of Man. They are not revealed by God.

The Qur'an itself was compiled by the very people who narrate the Hadith, as it was not in written form until the Caliphate of Abu Bakr as-Saddiq.

It was always in written form. All the Surahs were not compiled as one book.

The same people who memorized and narrated the Qur'an word for word, related Hadith word for word.

Not necessarily. But the recording of the Hadith was some 200-300 years later.

The narrators of hadith were great scholars, who had memorized the entire Qur'an and many other Hadith besides their own

They were not scholars. The biggest portion of our Hadiths (more than 50%) comes from Hazarat Aysha as the Prophet made her into a student of Islam. Then others too come from his companions. As far as I know most of them weren't educated.

[Chanakya]

AgNoStIc MuSliM

"To begin with[1], I think it is the responsibility of all those who believe that marrying a girl as young as nine years old was an accepted norm of the Arab culture, to provide at least a few examples to substantiate their point of view. I have not yet been able to find a single reliable instance in the books of Arab history where a girl as young as nine years old was given away in marriage. Unless such examples are given, we do not have any reasonable grounds to believe that it really was an accepted norm.

In my opinion, the age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly misreported in the narratives of the incident. Not only that, I think that the narratives reporting this event are not only highly unreliable but also that on the basis of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely happening. Let us look at the issue from an objective stand point. My reservations in accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are:

Sorry Dear but “I THINK” is not logic. Its faith

Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.

This is from Aisha Her self

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not even only an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why should we not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

Even if we assume this narrative to be accurate, we have no reason to give it more weight than those that are so detailed about Aisha ’s age, describing her playing with her dolls, talking about her girlfriends coming to play with her and hiding when Prophet entered the room, her memories of playing on the swing when her mother called her and washed her face and took her to Prophet, her ignorance of what was going on and her “surprise” when Prophet got into action taking his role as the husband, etc. These events are more likely to be remembered by someone of her childhood than when a particular Surah was revealed. It is more probable that a person confuse one Surah with the other than confuse all those details of her own life.

According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden upon them.

This is a weak excuse. When the Battle of Badr and Ohud occurred Aisha was 10 to 11 years old. She did not go to be a warier, like the boys. She went to be the companion of Prophet. Boys who were less than 15 were sent back, but this did not apply to her.

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

When someone gets that old, people don’t care too much about her exact age. It is very easy to say she was 100 years old when in fact she was only 90. The difference is not noticeable to the younger folks and 100 is a round figure. Assuming the Hadith is authentic, it could be an honest mistake. Since in those days people did not carry birth certificates, it is very much likely that the person who reported her age to be 100 did not know that she was 10 years older than Aisha and did not sit to make the calculations and deductions. She was not an important person and it did not occur to anyone that 1300 years later it would become the subject of a controversy. This could be a genuine mistake by the narrator of the Hadith.

Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she most likely got married.

Tabari’s narratives do not have the distinction to be known Sahih. Even if we assumed that this narratives is not forged, there is no reason to discard all those strong, detailed and explicit hadithes that concord with each other and confirm the age of Aisha was 9 when she married the Prophet, to accept this narrative that, could very well be also an innocent slip on the part of the narrator. People remember important events better than those that are relatively insignificant. The date of the birth of the children of Abu Bakr was not an important subject for Muslims to record. But the details of the Prophet's marriages were more important. As you can read in the story of Safiyah's wedding even the kind of food served is recorded.

According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not even have been born during the first year of Islam.

He fails to provide the references to the hadithes that he quotes. But obviously this is an error. To understand and accept a religion, one must he at least intelligent enough to make such decision. That is about 15 years old. But let us be generous and say that age is about 12. If Aisha accepted Islam during the first year of Islam, she must have been 26 years old when Prophetmarried her. (12 + 14) First of all, in those days girls married at much younger age. No one stayed that long to get married. And it is very unlikely that a 26-year-old woman plays with her dolls.

Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr (ra) planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam. Subsequently, his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
*

It was an Arab tradition to betroth a girl to a boy even when the girl was a newborn. This tradition is still carried on in many Islamic countries. This is no proof that Aisha was a grown up.

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".

his explanation is absolutely incorrect. Bikr means virgin and, just as in English is not age specific. In fact Aisha was the second wife of Prophet(after Khadijah) but Prophetdid not consummate his marriage with her for three years because she was too young. Instead he had to content himself with Umma Salamah, until Aisha matured a little bit more. It would not have made sense to marry a beautiful woman like Aisha and wait for three years to take her home.

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.

Of course this information cannot be taken as correct. If Aisha was five years older than Fatimah, and Fatimah was born when the Prophet was 35 years old, then Aisha was only 30 years younger than the Prophet. So at the time of her marriage when the Prophet was 54, Aisha must have been 24 yeas old. This is not certainly correct, for the reasons explained above and also it contradicts the Hadith that the People quoted about the age of Asma, Aisha ’s sister, who according to that Hadith was 10 years older that Aisha and died in 73 Hijra. So at the time of Hijra Asma must have been 100 –73 = 27 years old, but according to this Hadith she was 34 years old.
The discrepancy between these two hadithes quoted by the same People, demonstrate their inaccuracy. It all goes to show that in those days numbers did not mean much. It is more likely that people forget the dates. But events are better remembered. The reports of the tender age of Aisha is consistent with the stories of her childhood, playing with her toys, her girlfriends hiding when Prophetentered the room, the Prophet playing with her, her ignorance and “surprise” in the night of the nuptials, etc. All those hadithes confirm that she was a little girl. Those who deny the facts and try to prove otherwise, demonstrate their embarrassment of the acts of the Prophet. Perhaps they should be credited for having some scruples and realizing that what the Prophet did was wrong but we cannot praise them for their intellectual honesty or lack of it.

“In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Aisha (ra) at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.”

Even up to this day it is very common to find girls as young as 9-years given for matrimony. Of course the reason that no one objected to the marriage of Prophetand a 9-year-old girl, is because it was a costume. The reason when it was reported in so many hadithes that neither the author nor the scholars objected is because it was nothing out of the ordinary.

[Chanakya]

Asim Aquil

Muslims do primarily say that EVEN IF her age was 9, it was exactly according to Arab customs of that time. To marry off the girl when she is physically matured (after puberty). All descriptions of Aysha's beauty point to the fact that she had crossed puberty.
It's not saying anything about having sex is acceptable or not. It's just saying that was the custom of that time. She was not married off to a pedophile. Other than Aysha the rest of his wives were adults by our modern standards and some were even old widows.

I agree that primitive societies had some customs that are shocking to our modern sensitivity. Primitive people did a lot of things that appall us today. They had, human and animal sacrifices; practiced gender discrimination, slavery and many forms of abuses of human rights.

But
He is a Prophet he shall lead with an example which should be and universal and ethically right for any time , any place

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

Asim Aquil


I agree that primitive societies had some customs that are shocking to our modern sensitivity. Primitive people did a lot of things that appall us today. They had, human and animal sacrifices; practiced gender discrimination, slavery and many forms of abuses of human rights.

But
He is a Prophet he shall lead with an example which should be and universal and ethically right for any time , any place

It's not like we had concepts of minors and adults back then. There was no concept of Birthdays either until very recently (less than 50 years ago). You just don't know the person's age without properly sitting and calculating things based upon events.

Even my parents don't know their DOB. My dad has a rough Idea that he was born 2 months after the formation of Pakistan.

So in that scenario what do you look at? You look at physical maturity. If she's crossed puberty, that's a woman. Of course there's no evidence that this happened as AM's analysis is much more strong.

On another note, Abraham went to slay his own child, Abraham even left his other wife and child in the Arabian desert, Jesus' kept Mary Magdaleth as his wife (without actual marriage), Moses ordered mass execution of his own people... There are many questionable incidents in our past which didn't come into question until today because our concepts of social norms have considerably changed.

[Chanakya]

It's not like we had concepts of minors and adults back then. There was no concept of Birthdays either until very recently (less than 50 years ago). You just don't know the person's age without properly sitting and calculating things based upon events.

Even my parents don't know their DOB. My dad has a rough Idea that he was born 2 months after the formation of Pakistan.

So in that scenario what do you look at? You look at physical maturity. If she's crossed puberty, that's a woman. Of course there's no evidence that this happened as AM's analysis is much more strong.

On another note, Abraham went to slay his own child, Abraham even left his other wife and child in the Arabian desert, Jesus' kept Mary Magdaleth as his wife (without actual marriage), Moses ordered mass execution of his own people... There are many questionable incidents in our past which didn't come into question until today because our concepts of social norms have considerably changed.

Yes we have learned and evolved But God and his divinity is always ethically correct .. and any one claiming to be his messenger shall lead with an example which should be and universal and ethically right for any time , any place.
He shall be relevant to me in this time and for coming generations. 100 years from now .

[Asim Aquil]

Well now you're talking.

If you're going to follow Mohammad's example what do you learn from his examples?

That one time was an exception not the norm!

[Asim Aquil]

To add... Mohammad married 11 times. He married old widows, his first love was a woman twice his age. He married forming bonds with different type of people.

What do you learn? You can marry old women, young women, widows, virgins, non-virgins, of your tribe, of another's tribe. Why would you take the lesson of pedophilia from a 1/11, questionable, occurrence?

[Chanakya]

Well now you're talking.

If you're going to follow Mohammad's example what do you learn from his examples?

That one time was an exception not the norm!

No I wont , sorry enlightened souls shall be perfect in there ethical behaviour .. If he is also prone to ethical fallacies then how can I have full faith in him ?

[aryan2007]

[QUOTE=Asim Aquil;117713]To add... Mohammad married 11 times. He married old widows, his first love was a woman twice his age. He married forming bonds with different type of people.[/quote[

What do you learn?

You can marry old women, young women, widows, virgins, non-virgins, of your tribe, of another's tribe. Why would you take the lesson of pedophilia from a 1/11, questionable, occurrence?

Dude... What symbolism do you find??

Here you learn that you can marry any woman only if you love her...
irresp if whether she is old young, might add hindu or christian etc..

and this also shows that any woman can marry anyone irresp if she loves the Man..

In effect I draw the symbolism that you can have as many wives as you can take care of that is, only if you love her/them and she/they loves/love you(if your are multiple bodies one soul...) irresp of adjectives...

One can also show that..Drawing a parallel with what Hindu texts say.. Woman from even an impure should be accepted if she is auspicious.. and a Woman of your tribe should be rejected if she is wicked...(gimme some time for the source k?)