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Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!




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    SENIOR MEMBERS RayKalm's Avatar

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    Default Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!



    Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan

    Now and then, as though out of sheer boredom, the United States shoots itself in the foot and loses the occasional goodwill it creates with aid programmes. Consider the latest: Secretary Hilary Clinton says that “As we are ratcheting up pressure on Iran, it seems somewhat inexplicable that Pakistan would be trying to negotiate a pipeline with it”. Appearing before Congress, she threatened that sanctions could be imposed by the US on Pakistan’s precarious economy, and these would be “particularly damaging” and “further undermine their economic status”.

    One wonders why Mrs Clinton finds Pakistan’s attempt to tap into its gas-rich neighbour “inexplicable”. In fact, there is no mystery. Half of Pakistan’s energy needs are met from gas, but only 30 per cent of gas is domestically produced. Natural gas runs the country’s electricity generating plants, powers its factories, and is used as fuel for cars, buses and trucks.

    Without additional energy supplies, social chaos and disruption lies in the months and years ahead. Electricity shortfalls sometimes reach as high as 6,000MW, meaning that 40 per cent of the demand is unmet. Daily blackouts have gutted industrial production, closed markets, and CNG is rationed in spite of a huge price hike. Power riots broke out two weeks ago in Lahore. In October, protesters against power outages held up a train in Gujranwala, ordered passengers onto the platform, and set three coaches on fire.

    Iran’s gas could be critical for avoiding mass rioting and social breakdown. Should it actually come through, the proposed 56 inch diameter, 2,100-kilometres long IP pipeline would deliver a whopping 750 million cubic feet of gas per day from Iran’s South Pars gas field, located near Iran’s southern city of Asalouyeh. This could become Pakistan’s jugular vein or, more accurately, its windpipe.
    Expectedly, Secretary Clinton’s threats have drawn a strong reaction from Pakistani officials and leaders, with each trying to stand taller than the other. All this comes at a time when Pakistan-US relations are at a dangerous low. Quite apart from everything else, threatening Pakistan is poor diplomacy because it is reacting to something that, at the moment, is no more than a possibility.

    Although the pipeline project’s formal completion date is December 2014, a detailed feasibility plan is still being worked out and the source of funding is unclear. In July 2011, President Ahmadinejad has offered to fund construction of the 761 kilometres inside Pakistani territory. Iran declared at the time that it had laid the pipeline on its side to within 50 kilometres of Pakistan’s border. But the Iranian offer has to be taken with a good pinch of salt because Iran’s economic difficulties are rapidly mounting. China’s largest bank, the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, has backed out from its earlier commitment. Currently the Pakistan government is negotiating with Gazprom, the Russian gas and oil giant. Nothing is clear.

    The threats to Pakistan clearly violate the principle of fairness. Let’s say that Iran is indeed a “bad guy”, and that it is wrong to trade with bad guys. But, by this logic is it okay for the US to conduct $500 billion dollars of trade with China annually, a country that it alleges — perhaps correctly — of violating human rights? What about the planned $80 billion US arm sales to Saudi Arabia, a country that officially does not accept the right to religious freedom and treats its women abysmally? The IP gas pipeline, on the other hand, involves a piddling $1.5 billion and brings obvious advantages to Pakistan.

    US antagonism to the IP pipeline comes, of course, because of Iran’s nuclear programme. This is why India, China and Turkey are also being hectored into reducing their imports of Iranian crude oil. In 2008, US pressure forced India to pull out of the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline, also known as the “Peace Pipeline”.

    Suppose, for argument’s sake, Iran’s secret agenda is indeed that which the US alleges — i.e. to make nuclear weapons. If true, I find it personally regrettable. The world needs less, not more, nuclear weapons. It is in Iran’s long-term interest to shelve such ambitions and get on with improving the lives of ordinary Iranians. Yet, in all fairness, there are nine other nuclear states in the world with America’s perennial ally, Israel, being among them.

    But let us not blame the Americans alone. Another nation has now stepped in to discourage the construction of the IP pipeline. The kings and princes of Saudi Arabia — who had earlier urged the US to destroy Iran’s nuclear programme by launching military strikes and “cut off the head of the snake” — are making their presence felt here in Islamabad.

    Two weeks ago, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia’s deputy foreign minister, Prince Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah, sought to persuade Pakistan to abandon the IP pipeline and cancel electricity/oil import deals with Iran. Although details have not appeared in the press, Abdul Aziz apparently offered some kind of a financial bailout as the quid pro quo.

    But Pakistan needs energy security, not more loans. The Saudi attempt to create divisions and distrust with a neighboring country is plainly insidious and deserved a riposte from Pakistan’s leaders — one no less stout than the one delivered to the Americans. The Saudi plan is just as unworkable as the TAPI pipeline, which the US is pushing as an alternative to the IP pipeline. TAPI would run through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.

    But with Afghanistan likely to be embroiled indefinitely in civil war after 2014, only a wild optimist can believe that a pipeline traversing its hostile and intractable terrain could provide secure oil supplies.

    It is time for the US to get real and know that countries will pursue their goals rather than those preferred by Washington. John Foster Dulles is dead, as is Ronald Reagan — strong-arm tactics have seen their day. Instead American diplomacy needs to show sensitivity, and factor in the needs of the countries it deals with. Else the U.S shall isolate itself away from a goal that is truly important, the fight against global terrorism.
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    ELITE MEMBERS somebozo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    If Mrs clinton is even half serious to tackle terrorism menance in Pakistan then she should not oppose the pipeline or lay the TAPI for us free of cost. This spineless PPP government should make this clear instead of raising the begging bowl.

    Just who the hell is amreeka to advice two neighbors in their trade matter. And our politicians waste billions in useless projects but are looking for a finance to build the pipeline..how shameful. We should turn it into a public holding and raise funds by certificate deposits much like how engro did for thar coal project.

    What about the exception amreeka created for the European countries dependent on Iranian energy?
    Last edited by somebozo; 04-23-2012 at 05:02 AM.
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    SENIOR MEMBERS RayKalm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by somebozo View Post
    If Mrs clinton is even half serious to tackle terrorism menance in Pakistan then she should not oppose the pipeline or lay the TAPI for us free of cost. This spineless PPP government should make this clear instead of raising the begging bowl.

    Just who the hell is amreeka to advice two neighbors in their trade matter. And our politicians waste billions in useless projects but are looking for a finance to build the pipeline..how shameful. We should turn it into a public holding and raise funds by certificate deposits much like how engro did for thar coal project.

    What about the exception amreeka created for the European countries dependent on Iranian energy?
    Hmm, reading your comment made me think of Persian God King's ignorant allegations towards you being anti-Iranian/shia and a wahabi lover. Doesn't seem like it at all, maybe it's Persian God King who is the ignorant one?
    somebozo thanked this.

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    FULL MEMBERS Coltsfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by somebozo View Post
    If Mrs clinton is even half serious to tackle terrorism menance in Pakistan then she should not oppose the pipeline or lay the TAPI for us free of cost. This spineless PPP government should make this clear instead of raising the begging bowl.

    Just who the hell is amreeka to advice two neighbors in their trade matter. And our politicians waste billions in useless projects but are looking for a finance to build the pipeline..how shameful. We should turn it into a public holding and raise funds by certificate deposits much like how engro did for thar coal project.

    What about the exception amreeka created for the European countries dependent on Iranian energy?
    US has been throwing billions of $ at you, time to repay

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    SENIOR MEMBERS RayKalm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coltsfan View Post
    US has been throwing billions of $ at you, time to repay
    Actually, we've been throwing billions at them.

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    SENIOR MEMBERS SHAMK9's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coltsfan View Post
    US has been throwing billions of $ at you, time to repay
    and pakistani citizens are ready for a payback by throwing juties at them
    Last edited by SHAMK9; 04-23-2012 at 07:15 AM.

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    Banned Members PERSIAN GOD KING's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Our pakistani brother can do whatever THEY want, not what saudi or yankees want.
    there will be always be cooperations between our nations. they are our brother. and there is nothing no saudi or yankee can do about that.
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    SENIOR MEMBERS DRaisinHerald's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coltsfan View Post
    US has been throwing billions of $ at you, time to repay
    We're spent more on this war than we were given back as 'aid' or 'help' or whatever.
    Desert Fox and SHAMK9 thanked this.

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    Banned Members AbhijitSingh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by DRaisinHerald View Post
    We're spent more on this war than we were given back as 'aid' or 'help' or whatever.
    The doner does not agree with you on this creative accounting

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    SENIOR MEMBERS Icewolf's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbhijitSingh View Post
    The doner does not agree with you on this creative accounting
    Okay... $18 bn aid from US since 2001... We lost $50 billion in economy and collateral damage.

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    Banned Members AbhijitSingh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Icewolf View Post
    Okay... $18 bn aid from US since 2001... We lost $50 billion in economy and collateral damage.
    As I said, the figure of 50 billion (sometimes its 60 sometimes even 80) is without any backup or logic

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    SENIOR MEMBERS Icewolf's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbhijitSingh View Post
    As I said, the figure of 50 billion (sometimes its 60 sometimes even 80) is without any backup or logic
    No change it, it's $68 billion... Imran Khan said...

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    SENIOR MEMBERS RayKalm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Zaradri himself said we lost 70 Billion and increasing on this war, and only received about 15 billion and a bunch of American junk.

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    Banned Members AbhijitSingh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!

    Quote Originally Posted by RayKalm View Post
    Zaradri himself said we lost 70 Billion and increasing on this war, and only received about 15 billion and a bunch of American junk.
    is there a backup to this 70 billion or different people are pulling out different numbers from thin air

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    FULL MEMBERS Coltsfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Americans and Saudis: hands off Pakistan’s pipeline please!



    Quote Originally Posted by RayKalm View Post
    Actually, we've been throwing billions at them.
    Quote Originally Posted by SHAMK9 View Post
    and pakistani citizens are ready for a payback by throwing juties at them
    Quote Originally Posted by DRaisinHerald View Post
    We're spent more on this war than we were given back as 'aid' or 'help' or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Icewolf View Post
    Okay... $18 bn aid from US since 2001... We lost $50 billion in economy and collateral damage.

    Even if for a moment I accept what all you say is true, it then raises another q......... What sense did it make for Pakistan to support US? and why did it do it?

    Oh wait......... I remember GW did utter these words post 9/11.......... "you're either with us OR against us"......

    So it was either greed or fear.......what was it my Pakistani friends?


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