Plan Afoot to Buy 40 Aircrafts for PIA: Defence Minister

[JayAtl]

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God's honest truth - My father worked for PIA in Bombay in the 60's prior to the wars...

btw , privatize privatize privatize!

[Pak_Sher]

We need to also consider the C919 passenger plane from China.

[Luftwaffe]

Call it corruption or call it incompetence and poor maintenance in both previous government administration and the current one.

I came across this:

In July 2002, PIA purchased six Boeing 747-300 aircraft from Cathay Pacific, five of which were already on lease with PIA. The sixth arrived shortly after and PIA operated it mainly on its North American and European routes.

To be in phased out in December 2011

Ridiculous as it sounds, What is this, PIA phases out these planes just after 9 Years? Can these not be upgraded refurbished to the current standards instead of buying new ones.

In December 2008, Southwest Airlines selected Boeing to retrofit the 737-300 with a new set of instruments, hardware and software, in order to improve commonality with the 737-700, as well as to support the Required Navigation Performance initiative.

The 737-300 can be retrofitted with Aviation Partners Boeing winglets. The 737-300 retrofitted with winglets is designated the -300SP (Special Performance). Used passenger -300 aircraft have also been converted to freighter versions. The 737-300 is now replaced by the 737-700 in the Boeing 737 Next Generation family.

So why can Pakistan not send them for upgrades and refurbishment similar to Southwest Airlines put them to use, God knows PIA, Railway will once be an ancient term.

[razgriz19]

Call it corruption or call it incompetence and poor maintenance in both previous government administration and the current one.

I came across this:

In July 2002, PIA purchased six Boeing 747-300 aircraft from Cathay Pacific, five of which were already on lease with PIA. The sixth arrived shortly after and PIA operated it mainly on its North American and European routes.

To be in phased out in December 2011

Ridiculous as it sounds, What is this, PIA phases out these planes just after 9 Years? Can these not be upgraded refurbished to the current standards instead of buying new ones.

In December 2008, Southwest Airlines selected Boeing to retrofit the 737-300 with a new set of instruments, hardware and software, in order to improve commonality with the 737-700, as well as to support the Required Navigation Performance initiative.

The 737-300 can be retrofitted with Aviation Partners Boeing winglets. The 737-300 retrofitted with winglets is designated the -300SP (Special Performance). Used passenger -300 aircraft have also been converted to freighter versions. The 737-300 is now replaced by the 737-700 in the Boeing 737 Next Generation family.

So why can Pakistan not send them for upgrades and refurbishment similar to Southwest Airlines put them to use, God knows PIA, Railway will once be an ancient term.

these 737s have completed their lives, and their airframes are 25+ years old (some of them are even older)
upgrading them would be a bad investment!
and those 747-300s are very costly to fly, they're far less efficient than the new 777-300ER..
and besides they're old. we're one of the VERY few airlines which r still flying 747-300s...
and just for the record they spent 9 years in service with PIA, but they had been used by cathay pacific very frequently. i hope u realize that aircrafts were on lease...they were built in early 80s!!

[Luftwaffe]

these 737s have completed their lives, and their airframes are 25+ years old (some of them are even older)
upgrading them would be a bad investment!
and those 747-300s are very costly to fly, they're far less efficient than the new 777-300ER..
and besides they're old. we're one of the VERY few airlines which r still flying 747-300s...
and just for the record they spent 9 years in service with PIA, but they had been used by cathay pacific very frequently. i hope u realize that aircrafts were on lease...they were built in early 80s!!

There are a dozen a countries that have refurbished them and upgraded them extensively to reduce cost, when I say upgrade them to current standards it means bring them on par with today.

Bhai should I now say our F-16s were from 1980s are useless to upgrade them and were build in 80s.?

By the way did you read the latest new of corruption tow of planes grounded and leased from Greece for every 1000 hours Pakistan will pay $7.5 million.

[razgriz19]

We need to also consider the C919 passenger plane from China.

i dont think PIA is considering them....c919 is in the same class as 737, and PIA might replace 737s with ATR-42/A320s (if true)

[razgriz19]

There are a dozen a countries that have refurbished them and upgraded them extensively to reduce cost, when I say upgrade them to current standards it means bring them on par with today.

Bhai should I now say our F-16s were from 1980s are useless to upgrade them and were build in 80s.?

By the way did you read the latest new of corruption tow of planes grounded and leased from Greece for every 1000 hours Pakistan will pay $7.5 million.

no but i will definetly look into that.
and yaar these are airliners not fighters. a fighter pilot can eject but not passengers...and also these aircrafts fly much more than a regular fighter jet would.
if u look back into history, all passenger planes gets phased out after flying for 30 years or less...(atleast all themajor airlines do that)

[Super Falcon]

Plan a foot to buy 40 aircrafts for PIA: NA told - Breaking Pakistan News, National, World, Business, Cricket, Education, Health and Pakistan Politics Online

is this plane is A 320

[Super Falcon]

A 340 willl be good replacement for B 737 becoz it is huge and can fly hor long range travels comfortable plane and will serve well PPIA one big advantage PIA dont have to rely on American Boeing becoz Airbus is moving its plant to china now huge advantage for pakistan

[razgriz19]

A 340 willl be good replacement for B 737 becoz it is huge and can fly hor long range travels comfortable plane and will serve well PPIA one big advantage PIA dont have to rely on American Boeing becoz Airbus is moving its plant to china now huge advantage for pakistan

nope A-340 is costly to operate, many airlines who were operating them, switched it with 777...
its about same size as and uses only two engines!

[Donatello]

A 340 willl be good replacement for B 737 becoz it is huge and can fly hor long range travels comfortable plane and will serve well PPIA one big advantage PIA dont have to rely on American Boeing becoz Airbus is moving its plant to china now huge advantage for pakistan

Sir jee you are comparing two very different class of aircrafts.

Wide body long haul vs Single aisle regional planes.

A 340 is expensive..........i think A 320s offer better fuel economy on regional routes....many airlines in Europe/USA prefer them....

[Luftwaffe]

Non availability of funds, PIA is bankrupted how is it Pakistan is going to make purchases, IMF/WB are reluctant to fund Pakistan.

That's why it would still be far better to refurbish upgrade 6 of them instead of phasing out, for another 10 years and collectively with hopes when by that time Pakistan economy is in shape to order a large number by that time Airbus or Boeing Airliners.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I don't think Phasing out is good idea

Perhaps retain the old planes and refurbish them , and purchase 10 more planes for Longer Routes

Here is Chinese plane , will use 15-20% less fuel then Boeing and Airbus
Price Lower then Boeing and Airbus less then 50 million per plane (likely 30-35 million per plane)

350 Million Dollars buys you 10 brand new planes








Unit price 25 Million dollars USD

250 Million dollars for brand new 10 planes

Then we also have the Russian Civilian Aircrafts (Ideal plane for Local Pakistani Routes )




I think 10 of Chinese and 5 Super Jets from Russia would be great investment for PIA and it would cost alot less
and better fuel economy


Cost of 10 C919 = 350 Million Dollars (200 Passengers)
(Ideal Pakistan - England route)
(Ideal Pakistan - Saudia route)
(Ideal Pakistan - UAE route)
(Ideal Paksitan - France route)
(Ideal Pakistan - Germany route)
(Ideal Pakistan - Hong Kong)
(Ideal Pakistan - China)
(Ideal Pakistan - Australia)
(Ideal Pakistan - Japan)
(Ideal Pakistan - Turkey)

Cost of 10 Super Jets = 250 Million Dollars (100 Passengers)
(Ideal Karachi - Islamabad)
(Ideal Karachi - Gwadar Business plane)
(Ideal Karachi - Lahore Business plane)
(Lahore - Islamabad)
(Lahore - Gwadar)
(Islamabad - Bombay Business plane)
(Ideal Gwadar - Tehran International Business Plane)
(Gwadar - Russia)
(Gwadar - Oman - UAE)

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600 Million Dollars can get PIA 20 Brand new fleet planes
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By comparison
Airbus A320: US$85.0 million/ unit
Boeing Dreamliner US $180 million / unit

This would be enough to get may be 6 planes

So you do the math 20 Planes - More revenue vs 6 planes less revenue

For 50-80 Million dollars Pakistan could refurbish its older planes


The $600 Million , PIA should seek out financing deal may be pay 30% down payment and then purchase the planes by annual payments to the Banks / financial bodies

PIA should use the older planes perhaps on Pakistan - Africa routes

When the finances are under control in 2-3 years , then order 2 Airbus , and 2 Dreamliners
For non-stop flights to USA / Canada its not impossible

Karachi - New York (Dreamliner)
Karachi - Los Angeles (Airbus)
Karachi - Miami (Airbus)
Karachi - Toronto (Dreamliner)


Really the figure is around $600 Million USD only , 20 Planes and then the planes will finance growth

[Luftwaffe]

It is now a well established fact that China Airliners both domestically made and boeing/Airbus fleets are safety proven.

It is time for diversity, for our internal and regional needs Chinese C919 would be a good future option. For long haul Boeing/Airbus more likely 787 would be the best option.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

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It is now a well established fact that China Airliners both domestically made and boeing/Airbus fleets are safety proven.
It is time for diversity, for our internal and regional needs Chinese C919 would be a good future option. For long haul Boeing/Airbus would be the best option.

Well PIA already has long haul new planes so for next 10 years they are ok , problem is delays in flights and loss of revenue due to other carriers winning

So its simple spend $600 Million USD on 20 plane purchases - fix your flight delays and modernization efforts

Then order 4 Long Range planes Dream-liner / Airbus that can fly 18 hours none stop

Better fuel economy + New planes + Increased capacity should give PIA profits for next 10-15 years its a no brainer even Zardari can do it

And possible the older planes can be turned into Cargo planes - for Fedex like service that PIA runs