Women as regular combatants?

[thorosius]

I know! I know! this can be a very controvertial subject, lets be cool.

I think women do have a role in Pakistani Military but this role must be restricted only to a support role, as has been done by incorporatin women in medical core or other supporting activities. But other than that putting women into combat roles is in my view not at all a good idea, like PAF has done by allowing women to enroll as GDP pilots. I thought this was a bad move. We are not talking about everyday life we are talking about war, blood, gore, death, suffering, endurance.

Taking a life is much much more difficult than giving your own, especially the first one. Women can't even watch a chicken's "qurbani" . But this then also happens to some men too. Amaizing!

Anyway my point is that women lack the mental toughness to withstand and "bardashat" a losing situation and try to turn the situation around. And just imagine what happens if she is captured!

I am just expressing my views. I AM NOT OPPOSED TO WOMEN. I DO WANT THEM TO CONTRIBUTE TO PAKISTAN ARMY AND ANY OHTER INSTITUTE IN PAKISTAN AND THEY ARE FREE TO DO SO.

[Officer of Engineers]

There is a big difference between women combatants and women serving in the combat arms. Women have been fighting wars since the days of the caveman. Threaten a baby and you will see just how determined a mother can be.

However, serving in the combat arms is a whole another issue. Actual combat only represents 5% of the total work. The rest is just pure back breaking hump and while a few women are capable of it, finding them ain't worth the effort, especially when they will never be anywhere near the top of the pack.

[Samudra]

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

However, serving in the combat arms is a whole another issue. Actual combat only represents 5% of the total work. The rest is just pure back breaking hump and while a few women are capable of it, finding them ain't worth the effort, especially when they will never be anywhere near the top of the pack.

We're finding it hard to attract talent into the forces today. Welcoming women into some support(non-combat) roles could be a good idea.

[Keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

There is a big difference between women combatants and women serving in the combat arms. Women have been fighting wars since the days of the caveman. Threaten a baby and you will see just how determined a mother can be.

However, serving in the combat arms is a whole another issue. Actual combat only represents 5% of the total work. The rest is just pure back breaking hump and while a few women are capable of it, finding them ain't worth the effort, especially when they will never be anywhere near the top of the pack.

I concur with the above. It has been found that women are psychologically more than capable of killing. However every woman I went through training with failed because they could not manage physically. There are women capable of managing this as well but very few of them in the army.

We have a saying that there are only two kinds of women in the (British) army. Bikes and Dykes........ I'll leave it at that

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Keysersoze

I concur with the above. It has been found that women are psychologically more than capable of killing. However every woman I went through training with failed because they could not manage physically. There are women capable of managing this as well but very few of them in the army.

I will add to this. I don't know other countries' experiences other than Canada but I suspect they are the same. We have had women passing the Jump Company/Para Courses. I know a few Brit women even passed the SAS course but NONE were invited to joint the prestigious battalions. Why? Because only the the top 2% get gets the invite. Just passing the course meant nothing other than punching your ticket and no woman in Canada ever got into the top 40%, never mind the the top 2% even though scores have passed the course.

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Samudra

We're finding it hard to attract talent into the forces today. Welcoming women into some support(non-combat) roles could be a good idea.

The InA would have better luck at getting the job done by contracting out the home support roles ... ie, National Headquarters Clerks.

Anything more than that, you better expect that idiot to be at least be able to handle a rifle.

[Asim Aquil]

I think they are fine psychologically. Men aren't made to kill, they are molded that way by the army. I think the bulk of them might fail physically vs men while applying for the Army. As AF pilots they should be just fine.

In Pak there was one female AF cadet that topped her co-ed class... So this is really something of a newly discovered resource that we shouldn't let go... If they are captured, I think women can also take torture or perhaps just pass out if their bodies can't take it.

I know an Indian pilot who flies in the UAE with a lot mixed nationalities. He often tells me women kicked their ***** in flying school. If they are told to do A, B, C, they'd do A, B, C. The men always had the urge to try out some stunt or the other. Oh and his trainer was a South African woman as well.

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

If they are captured, I think women can also take torture or perhaps just pass out if their bodies can't take it.

After talking to my PoW course instructors, women are alot easier to break than men. Very few women have the lone wolf complex and those who do rarely have the physical attributes to make it into the armed services and the few who does have it do not have it anywhere near what men process.

[thorosius]

Officer of Engineers >> Agreed! I think women are not capable of enduring long term torture compared to men but then, everyone has a limit.

Samudra >> I don't think military has difficulty attracting new talent .... if it has difficulty then this is a very big problem.

[Wounded Healer]

Officer of Engineers >> Agreed! I think women are not capable of enduring long term torture compared to men but then, everyone has a limit.

medically speaking, the pain threshold in a woman is 9 times more than that of a man.................if a woman is not capable of enduring long term torture than it must have something to do with mental toughness rather then physical toughness.

[Officer of Engineers]

Not the pain threshold. The physical threshold.

[Asim Aquil]

I always thought most soldiers might just keep their mouths shut out of patriotism.

If they are broken through blackmail then that can happen to anyone.

How many men are Rambo like, 'pissed off with the world and torture is fun' like soldiers?

On another note, Muslim women might fear rape when they are captured... I mean so would other female soldiers but you know the attitude towards rape is a lot more different here. Personally you can praise them for not talking even under such a threat but since soldiers come from a lower middle class background (hence probably conservative) this feeling just might be stronger within them.

[Officer of Engineers]

It's not blackmail. The mental game is played through exhaustion, sleep deprivation, and threats to others. "If you don't do what I want, I'll stick this hot glowing steel rod up her/his ..."

[thorosius]

Apart from torture and rape like threats, there is more technical issue to be considered as well. Women are perceived in our society to be weaker then men in aspects considered important in the military. And if for a second we assume that this is true than woman's role in the military is a weakness rather than a diversity, then exploitable by the enemy.

[Keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

I always thought most soldiers might just keep their mouths shut out of patriotism.

If they are broken through blackmail then that can happen to anyone.

How many men are Rambo like, 'pissed off with the world and torture is fun' like soldiers?

On another note, Muslim women might fear rape when they are captured... I mean so would other female soldiers but you know the attitude towards rape is a lot more different here. Personally you can praise them for not talking even under such a threat but since soldiers come from a lower middle class background (hence probably conservative) this feeling just might be stronger within them.

Dude, one thing you get taught is that everyone has their breaking point......they would go about it in different ways thats all.