Indian Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta Spells Out Vision 2022

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by nitesh

Hey jliu, what is your view on the point you raised. What I mean is that this will be third line of subs then and isn't it a good option just to maintain only two line of subs at least from an economy perspective.

The IN will have three different types of SSK (Kilo, Scorpene and another six) by 2012 either in service, IOC or building. Obviously in addition to the ATV and 1-2 Akula its a nightmare from the logistics POV although it will be mitigated somewhat with the new logistics system we're implementing for the IN-can't go into the details of that at this point. Capability by itself means nothing.

With regards to your second statement nothing is ever solely based on the economics/upkeep variable-in your case the GoI makes procurement decisions with geopolitical considerations primarily in mind, with input from the IN's undersea warfare arm in the form of a threat matrix analysis which I have contributed to. There will probably always be three SSK types in the IN because it seems the GoI seems to have taken to heart the best way to neutralise a submarine threat is to stop the sub from being procured in the first place-which often means buying the design in order to deny/delay it to a competitor even if it means causing your own navy quite a bit of headache. Nevertheless the threat matrix also takes into account the very likely possibility of peer competitors gaining access to advanced T3 submarines such as the Marlin, Turkish derivative of the
U214 as well as Swedish Gotland/A26 designs that would likely improve the strategic balance towards the adversaries' favour.

[nitesh]

Hey thanks a lot, ha ha ha that is good strategy just deny the competitor from gaining access or just delay it

[jaison]

Originally Posted by nitesh

Soory i had not quoted my point clearly, those will be lightweight torpedo in 553mm or we can see heavy torpedo in 655 mm. Correct me if I am wrong but the isn't heavy torpedo tubes can be used to launch the cruise missiles (like nirbhay) too.

light torpedoes and heavy torpedoes have seperate compartments,atv may use Advanced Experimental Torpedo (lightweight torpedo),Varunastra (heavyweight torpedo),Takshak (heavy weight torpedo)........yes u r correct torpedo tubes can be used to launch CMs like the british astute(ssn with tomahawk) but am not sure if atv would hav that ,but there is a bright possilibity considering development of brahmos,nirbhay and the absence of dedicated ssn(which usually carryout CM attacks)..........strategically ssbns offer more advantages than ssns such as long range better payload......rich countries posses dedicated ssns and ssbns but atv must be a multirole sub....but when it comes out am sure that many countries will be crying foul abt indias intentions.........

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by nitesh

Hey thanks a lot, ha ha ha that is good strategy just deny the competitor from gaining access or just delay it

Unfortunately we didn't take into account in 2007 that India/Israel's ability to influence the Turks was marginal rather than 'level' as with the Swedes and French. Plans rapidly dissolve in the face of actual conditions so we might have a Greek/Turk scenario in subcontinent waters where German sourced
U214s square off against Turkish sourced T214s. If you go over to the PN submarine thread a Turk seems to think the TN214 is clearly superior but since we have difficulty in assessing the capabilities/performance of the systems on the TN214 as it won't reach IOC until 2015-it is too early to compare at this stage.

[nitesh]

hey nothing heard much about the torpedo development, can u please share some info if u have got pls.

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by nitesh

hey nothing heard much about the torpedo development, can u please share some info if u have got pls.

The IN is licensing the French derivative of the WASS Blackshark. Take a look at the DCNS website.

[jaison]

Torpedo all set for user trial
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Soumyajit Pattnaik , Hindustan Times
Bhubaneswar, June 03, 2008
First Published: 02:15 IST(3/6/2008)
Last Updated: 02:18 IST(3/6/2008)

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The indigenously built heavyweight torpedo, Varunastra, is scheduled to undergo extensive user trials by end 2008 and go into production in 2009. Being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to counter threats from the sea, Varunastra can be fired against hostile submarines and ships. The DRDO’s Visakhapatnam-based Naval Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL) is currently developing the Varunastra.

“We are developing two types of torpedoes. The lightweight anti-submarine torpedo is currently under production. The heavyweight Varunastra requires more user trials before it can be inducted into the Navy. It will undergo extensive trials by the end of this year and will be ready for production in 2009,” a senior NSTL official, who was visiting DRDO facilities in Orissa, told the Hindustan Times. A torpedo, on entering water, performs pre-programmed search patterns, detects and homes in on targets and explodes on impact to destroy/damage them.

A heavyweight torpedo like the Varunastra is fired from a submarine or ship. “This torpedo is wire-guided. In other words, the guidance wire acts as a medium for communication of data between the torpedo and the firing platform (ship or submarine). The wire is also a medium to communicate data to guide the torpedo towards the target during the underwater run,” the NSTL official said. “DRDO has developed guidance wire spools for wire-guided torpedoes like Varunastra. This system has undergone sea trials and performed satisfactorily. DRDO has also developed an onboard instrumentation system for torpedoes.”

The official added that the instrumentation system performs pre-launch communication, monitors health of the torpedo and stores torpedo parameters online.

Despite the strides made in the indigenous production of torpedoes, the Indian Navy still suffers from a handicap: how to train submarine or ship crew in torpedo firing. Use of real torpedoes for training is cost prohibitive, so naval officials train with practice torpedoes. For this purpose, NSTL has designed, developed and produced a ‘drill and practice torpedo’, which is the equivalent of an Italian torpedo, currently available with the Indian Navy. The indigenous drill and practice torpedo is available at one-sixth the cost of an imported torpedo.
Torpedo all set for user trial- Hindustan Times
site of drdo
NSTL
vrunastra pic ImageShack - Hosting :: varunastrasc6.jpg
thakshak is a thermal heavyweight torpedo in the range class of blackshark and russian heavy torpedos,it is undergoing user trials,varunastra is developmental project for a long range torpedo.
india has also placed an order for the french blackshark torpedos for use with its scorpene class of submarines,these torpedos are to be manufactured by bdl .

india is also interested in acquiring the wass mu-90 eurotorp,this torpedo was offered to the indian navy a couple of years back.an indian private company mahindra defence systems has signed an agreement with wass for joint design and developments of torpedos and also for providing maintainence support to the torpedos developed by wass.

there were reports earlier that india is also looking to jointly develop torpedos with kazhakistan ,the torpedo projects offered by kazhakisthan for joint development are the kazy and kinzal.

i tried searching a lot for information on these two torpedo projects as well as other kazhakistani designed and developed torpedos but could not find any substantial information on them.

i would realy appreciate it if anyone could give any information or links to sites providing info on kazakhi torpedos in general and kazy and kinzal particular.

[nitesh]

so we can hope to see them with scorpene and ATV's.

[jaison]

Originally Posted by nitesh

so we can hope to see them with scorpene and ATV's.

yes if everything goes well.

[nitesh]

guys check this, real good read:

::IDSA:: Changing Roles of Navies in the Contemporary World Order with specific reference to the Indian Navy ::

[nitesh]

Indian Navy to position men on French aircraft carrier

August 25th, 2008 - 8:01 pm ICT by IANS

New Delhi, Aug 25 (IANS) The Indian Navy, poised to acquire its biggest aircraft carrier with the Admiral Gorshkov, will soon position its men on the French Navy’s aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle to get exposure to big vessels and how they function, a senior official said.”We will position our men on the French naval ship to study large ships. This would also be an exposure for them in terms of how large carriers work,” said the naval official.

“The nuclear powered Charles de Gaulle would be good exposure for the Indian naval officials as there are many issues, like nuclear propulsion, involved in operating a large aircraft carrier at sea,” the official added.The training on board the French aircraft carrier will begin in October next year.

A 45,000-tonne carrier, Admiral Gorshkov, renamed INS Vikramaditya, was to be delivered in late 2007 or early 2008 but this has now been pushed back to 2012.

By 2022, the Indian navy aims to have a fleet of 160-plus ships, three aircraft carriers and 400 aircraft of different types.

The Indian Navy has increased cooperation with the leading navies of the world, including the Royal Navy of Britain, the US Navy and the French Navy.

Earlier this month, the Indian Navy conducted a combined patrol with the French Navy off the Horn of Africa to understand the situation in the area.

In May this year, the Indian Navy held a bilateral exercise called Varuna with the French Navy off India’s east coast. The French Navy had fielded its Landing Platform Dock-Mistral.

[nitesh]

guys check this:

http://www.nio.org/uploads/advert_AUV.pdf?newsId=186

Can this be used as mini sub?

[jaison]

Originally Posted by nitesh

guys check this:

http://www.nio.org/uploads/advert_AUV.pdf?newsId=186

Can this be used as mini sub?

they can used along with conventional submarines to collect intelligence
to locate enemy subs and in removing underwater mines,i hope a dedicated military version comes out.

[nitesh]

Originally Posted by jaison

they can used along with conventional submarines to collect intelligence
to locate enemy subs and in removing underwater mines,i hope a dedicated military version comes out.

That will be a good edition but can't it be used for shore defense with a lot of these machines lurking inside the water.

[jaison]

Originally Posted by nitesh

That will be a good edition but can't it be used for shore defense with a lot of these machines lurking inside the water.

there is a possibilty for that too.........it can carry out suicide attacks on enemy subs or ships entering our territorial waters..