Indian Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta Spells Out Vision 2022

[nitesh]

Originally Posted by jaison

there is a possibilty for that too.........it can carry out suicide attacks on enemy subs or ships entering our territorial waters..

That will be interesting suicide subs. He he he but that will take some time.

[jaison]

Indian Navy to position men on French aircraft carrier
August 25th, 2008 - 8:01 pm ICT by IANS - Email This Post


New Delhi, Aug 25 (IANS) The Indian Navy, poised to acquire its biggest aircraft carrier with the Admiral Gorshkov, will soon position its men on the French Navy’s aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle to get exposure to big vessels and how they function, a senior official said.”We will position our men on the French naval ship to study large ships. This would also be an exposure for them in terms of how large carriers work,” said the naval official.

“The nuclear powered Charles de Gaulle would be good exposure for the Indian naval officials as there are many issues, like nuclear propulsion, involved in operating a large aircraft carrier at sea,” the official added.

The training on board the French aircraft carrier will begin in October next year.

A 45,000-tonne carrier, Admiral Gorshkov, renamed INS Vikramaditya, was to be delivered in late 2007 or early 2008 but this has now been pushed back to 2012.

By 2022, the Indian navy aims to have a fleet of 160-plus ships, three aircraft carriers and 400 aircraft of different types.

The Indian Navy has increased cooperation with the leading navies of the world, including the Royal Navy of Britain, the US Navy and the French Navy.

Earlier this month, the Indian Navy conducted a combined patrol with the French Navy off the Horn of Africa to understand the situation in the area.

In May this year, the Indian Navy held a bilateral exercise called Varuna with the French Navy off India’s east coast. The French Navy had fielded its Landing Platform Dock-Mistral.
Indian Navy to position men on French aircraft carrier

[nitesh]

Guys this needs attention:

Deccan Herald - Chinese aircraft carriers may pose security threat

Chinese aircraft carriers may pose security threat
DH News Service, New Delhi:
In what may change the strategic complexities in the Indian Ocean region, China is developing at least three aircraft carriers, the first of which is expected to be ready by 2012.


The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has also invested heavily in constructing the replenishment vessels.

The first Chinese carrier will be, Varyug – a 32,000 tonnes Admiral Kuznetsov class Soviet warship. Its ownership was handed over to Ukraine after USSR’s disintegration.

China is understood to have purchased the carrier from Ukraine. “It is expected to be ready by 2012.” said a navy officer. While aircraft carriers give the PLAN increased mobility in the Indian Ocean region and enables Chinese maritime activities, Beijing is also constructing six replenishment vessels that can provide fuel and other supplies to the deployed PLAN battleships. The first one’s capacity is more than the India tanker, INS Aditya.

Intense ship building activities are on in Hainan Island off Chinese southern coast, where nuclear ballistic missile submarines are being developed. At the moment, PLAN is playing the strategic game as it is not yet ready to venture out. But it is in a preparatory mode, he said, adding PLAN did not have air support. For comparison, the lone Indian aircraft carrier INS Virat is undergoing a refit and repair work as the government has decided to extend Virat’s life by another five-six years due to the delays in procuring the Russian carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

Apparently Navy Chief Admiral Susheel Kumar’s last year’s public outburst against the Russian long hand tactics paid off with Moscow expediting the refit work and price renegotiations, he said.

The indigenous carrier, Air Defence Ship, is also under construction and expected to be ready for induction by 2015 only.


To me seems to be just a cry to get more budget.

[nitesh]

Originally Posted by lovemess17

may be,but we have a long tradition of using carriers and have evolved doctrines to handle any threat,they have their plans we have ours so why do you worry .we will also have better infusion of western and indian technology in mig-29k and nlca hopefully even e-2d to tackle su-33s,IN has been ready for anything , still is and will be the same in the future.

Your point seems to be correct as IN has long experience using carriers. But e-2d handling the SU 33? I am not getting u.

But the last line is good one, seems more about getting more budget.

[lovemess17]

Originally Posted by nitesh

Your point seems to be correct as IN has long experience using carriers. But e-2d handling the SU 33? I am not getting u.

But the last line is good one, seems more about getting more budget.

e-2d will give aew and battlefield management capabilities which can give our naval fighters an upper hand as neither plan nor russia has any it its class to offer to the plan.

[nitesh]

But then the planes of IN should be compatible to NATO standard. I mean should use link 16, which the current lot doesn't, I think if SH is selected as MRCA winner and Navy decides to go ahead with it for commonality of maintenance etc. then we may see e-2d.

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by jaison

there is a possibilty for that too.........it can carry out suicide attacks on enemy subs or ships entering our territorial waters..

That is pure rubbish. And the mission role is what torpedoes fill.

[jaison]

Originally Posted by Jliu

That is pure rubbish. And the mission role is what torpedoes fill.

no pal a torpedo does not identify,track,and take out subs.......the name says it all 'autonomous' underwater vehicle.but these can take some time

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by jaison

no pal a torpedo does not identify,track,and take out subs.......the name says it all 'autonomous' underwater vehicle.but these can take some time

BS it doesn't.

In addition AUVs are not even capable of independently completing a sensor-shooter cycle.

I assure you I keep well abreast of undersea developments and I tell you now that the future of undersea warfare will a) remain manned and b) grow in importance.

And as for the carrier issue, for all their faults the Chinese are taking the right approach to a comprehensive naval grand strategy. Mehta seems to be stuck in neutral.

[jaison]

Originally Posted by Jliu

BS it doesn't.

In addition AUVs are not even capable of independently completing a sensor-shooter cycle.

I assure you I keep well abreast of undersea developments and I tell you now that the future of undersea warfare will a) remain manned and b) grow in importance.

And as for the carrier issue, for all their faults the Chinese are taking the right approach to a comprehensive naval grand strategy. Mehta seems to be stuck in neutral.

whatever, y r u steamed up........mehta is a competent leader we have our own requirements and will procure equipment to deal with threats .....even the chinese r not excited so y ar u.....i dont know y paks speak so proudly abt china(china is great,china rules indian is BS) give me a break ,chinese expansion is our problem y r u so excited as if ur navy is goin to get 3 carriers.

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by jaison

whatever, y r u steamed up........mehta is a competent leader we have our own requirements and will procure equipment to deal with threats .....even the chinese r not excited so y ar u.....i dont know y paks speak so proudly abt china(china is great,china rules indian is BS) give me a break ,chinese expansion is our problem y r u so excited as if ur navy is goin to get 3 carriers.

Firstly in regards to the torpedo issue that is exactly the function of a torpedo, a component of the system-not the platform whatever that may mean to you.

Secondly my 'Chinese sounding' username does not automatically make me Chinese by any measure. The difference between serving personnel and civilians is that you make assumptions w/o respect for the circumstances of the issue or any research at all.

Thirdly I have returned from New Delhi on what I'm calling a three day 'fact finding' visit and I am not impressed with the intermediate-long term procurement plans of the IN for the undersea arm-which quite frankly have been 'hijacked' by the naval aviation mob whose key project has been delayed so many times not one officer I have spoken with has been able to inform me when IOC and delivery will be reached. Furthermore funds earmarked for the next 6 SSKs have been diverted to other projects whose scale I can only guess and our recommendations for grand naval strategy have been ignored despite the flowery speech on naval strategy by Mehta which you have posted. Additional funds will be requested for the 6 SSKs but the timeframe has been pushed back by at least a year while progress on systems integration on the IN surface fleet is on-off despite the crap in newspapers reporting how much progress has been made due to the commendable efforts of the IAF in grabbing a bigger share of the budget pie.

As my background is undersea warfare and you say the PLAN is your problem, I'll ask you for a platform that almost won both WWI and II for Germany how many boats (SSK, SSN and discounting the obsolete Mings) does the PLAN operate/building/reaching IOC compared to their IN equivalents in the 2008-2012 timeframe?

[jaison]

Originally Posted by Jliu

Firstly in regards to the torpedo issue that is exactly the function of a torpedo, a component of the system-not the platform whatever that may mean to you.

Secondly my 'Chinese sounding' username does not automatically make me Chinese by any measure. The difference between serving personnel and civilians is that you make assumptions w/o respect for the circumstances of the issue or any research at all.

Thirdly I have returned from New Delhi on what I'm calling a three day 'fact finding' visit and I am not impressed with the intermediate-long term procurement plans of the IN for the undersea arm-which quite frankly have been 'hijacked' by the naval aviation mob whose key project has been delayed so many times not one officer I have spoken with has been able to inform me when IOC and delivery will be reached. Furthermore funds earmarked for the next 6 SSKs have been diverted to other projects whose scale I can only guess and our recommendations for grand naval strategy have been ignored despite the flowery speech on naval strategy by Mehta which you have posted. Additional funds will be requested for the 6 SSKs but the timeframe has been pushed back by at least a year while progress on systems integration on the IN surface fleet is on-off despite the crap in newspapers reporting how much progress has been made due to the commendable efforts of the IAF in grabbing a bigger share of the budget pie.

As my background is undersea warfare and you say the PLAN is your problem, I'll ask you for a platform that almost won both WWI and II for Germany how many boats (SSK, SSN and discounting the obsolete Mings) does the PLAN operate/building/reaching IOC compared to their IN equivalents in the 2008-2012 timeframe?

kanna no one cares if u r not impressed and u visited delhi so who told u these so called 'facts'..............i will tell u the facts...................6 scorpenes will be inducted by 2017(including delay),rfp for second line of subs will be floated for 6-7 subs and they may be inducted by post 2020 and L&T is also bidding for constructing them in its own new modular shipyard at hazira and thus will be constructed faster than the scorpene(another reason for delay in scorpene is setting up new infrastructure and expertise)which will not be the problem at hazira and modularity of shipyards also allows easy contruction............the next line of subs to replace kilos will be indegenous....
info abt project-17a,p-15a,p-15b stealth frigates and destroyers is given here
Defense Technology International - April 2008
the ssbn atvs reactor has gone critical and reports hav come that it will be launched on the republic day next year.....akula-ii will also be arriving by next year.the acoustic signature(including heat from reactor) of atv will be lower than type-094 as it will be smallest ssbn in the world......the above article will also suggests that ads-2 will be ther by 2017...........the ads-2 and atv-2 and 3 will be built at hazira as the orders r overflowing in other shpyard the orders r so huge that s.koreas ship building agencies have been consuted for building in their own shipyards..............personally i hope to see american littoral combat ship in indian colors.....

[jaison]

u can also read this thead
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-...ea-weapon.html
abt atv

[Jliu]

Originally Posted by jaison

kanna no one cares if u r not impressed and u visited delhi so who told u these so called 'facts'..............i will tell u the facts...................6 scorpenes will be inducted by 2017(including delay),rfp for second line of subs will be floated for 6-7 subs and they may be inducted by post 2020 and L&T is also bidding for constructing them in its own new modular shipyard at hazira and thus will be constructed faster than the scorpene(another reason for delay in scorpene is setting up new infrastructure and expertise)which will not be the problem at hazira and modularity of shipyards also allows easy contruction............the next line of subs to replace kilos will be indegenous....
info abt project-17a,p-15a,p-15b stealth frigates and destroyers is given here
Defense Technology International - April 2008
the ssbn atvs reactor has gone critical and reports hav come that it will be launched on the republic day next year.....akula-ii will also be arriving by next year.the acoustic signature(including heat from reactor) of atv will be lower than type-094 as it will be smallest ssbn in the world......the above article will also suggests that ads-2 will be ther by 2017...........the ads-2 and atv-2 and 3 will be built at hazira as the orders r overflowing in other shpyard the orders r so huge that s.koreas ship building agencies have been consuted for building in their own shipyards..............personally i hope to see american littoral combat ship in indian colors.....

What a rant.

I am not going to respond to half of what you have posted, merely to say that I am a serving RAN officer assisting the IN (and has assisted the PN) on naval strategy and systems integration and that is enough. New articles and fanboy links are next to useless-find me a serving IN officer with whom I can discuss issues further.

In terms of SSK/SSN numbers the IN has (2008-2012)
-10 refitted 877 (Kilo)-performance roughly on par with PN A-90s
-4 T209 (which might as well be scrapped and will be when the first two P75 Scorps reach IOC)
-1 Akula II (if reports are to be believed)

-6 Scorpene, IOC 2013+ (not counted for purposes of this comparison)
-6 New SSK, IOC 2017+? (RFPs are currently delayed)
-2? ATV SSN (not even going to speculate as even I don't know enough)

compared to the PLAN (2008-2012)
Chinese Submarines - SinoDefence.com (put together by knowledgeble mil-blogger TP Huang)

And that's just in five minutes off the top of my head with an assist from TP.

Go do the math.

[jaison]

Originally Posted by Jliu

What a rant.

I am not going to respond to half of what you have posted, merely to say that I am a serving RAN officer assisting the IN (and has assisted the PN) on naval strategy and systems integration and that is enough. New articles and fanboy links are next to useless-find me a serving IN officer with whom I can discuss issues further.

In terms of SSK/SSN numbers the IN has (2008-2012)
-10 refitted 877 (Kilo)-performance roughly on par with PN A-90s
-4 T209 (which might as well be scrapped and will be when the first two P75 Scorps reach IOC)
-1 Akula II (if reports are to be believed)

-6 Scorpene, IOC 2013+ (not counted for purposes of this comparison)
-6 New SSK, IOC 2017+? (RFPs are currently delayed)
-2? ATV SSN (not even going to speculate as even I don't know enough)

compared to the PLAN (2008-2012)
Chinese Submarines - SinoDefence.com (put together by knowledgeble mil-blogger TP Huang)

And that's just in five minutes off the top of my head with an assist from TP.

Go do the math.

i dont care if u dont believe me.....considering already existant infrastructure at hazira and assuming that there is no delay in tot the 1st of the second line will take 4years,so if it is rfp is issued in 2009 then approval will be in 2011 and const in 2012(but dpp-2008 can accelerate it much faster) then add four years 2016-2022(as i said before) all will be delivered....this calc includes delays usually experienced except tot and infrastructure............in submarines stealth has utmost priority and every one know that scorpene and upcoming sybs are the best in it.if u do the mistake of flooding the oceans with subs then chances are there that u can give away your positions.....and akulas are the most silent in the region and atv must be upto its technological level(as one does not shift from higher tech to lower tech)...........and most of the chinese subs in ur post r old and noisy and emplying them will be suicide mission considering tha advanced subs ,asw platforms,p-8i which will arrive by that time.........and most wud have been retired and will be replaced by smaller no of yaun class subs(which cannot cmpare with scorpene)....atvs reactor is smaller than the type-094 and thus gives out less heat,sound,sonar cross section.........atv is called the 'baby boomer'......IN subs will also have blackshark torpedoes which currently are the most advanced..
regards