INDIAN AWACS PROJECT - DRDO Targeting 2011 For Project Completion

[ejaz007]

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DRDO Targeting 2011 For AWACS Project Completion
Dated 10/3/2008

Defence Research and Development Organisation is pursuing development of Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) at a cost of Rs. 1,800 cr with a probable date of completion in the year 2011.

Development and manufacture of indigenous Radar is included in AWACS programme. The possibilities of marketing Indian technology for surveillance equipment in world markets have not been assessed.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri A K Antony in a written reply to Shri Naveen Jindal in Lok Sabha today.

DRDO Targeting 2011 For AWACS Project Completion | India Defence

Why is India developing its own AWACS system when it is just about to induct a system from Israel? Isn't this waste of time, resource and money. Any news or comments about this project, please share.
Regards,

[WebMaster]

Well, Pakistan is buying 6 Erieye.. why build one with China? Simple answer. To get an edge.

[ejaz007]

I don't think this is the reason. How can an Indian designed system have an edge over Erieye or Falcon system. India is designing first such system while Israel and Sweeden have lots of experience. Similarly China has better R&D infrastructure.
Normally Indians reply that they have money to spend and that is why they are starting a project. My thinking is that either they want an indigenous system (which is very good because it eliminates ones dependence on others) or they are not fully satisifed with Falcon (this is purely my guess). Any other reasons, ideas or guesses.

[WebMaster]

Your correct. India systems will of course be no where near that of the Chinese or Israeli. It seems they think that they can develop it, and have the money to do so.. to get extra systems which can help them in the time of war. Thats what i actually mean.. which will then give them an edge if they have more systems, understanding that India has ordered like only 3 Phalcons so far.

[KENT]

I don't think this is the reason. How can an Indian designed system have an edge over Erieye or Falcon system. India is designing first such system while Israel and Sweeden have lots of experience. Similarly China has better R&D infrastructure.

India has already implied that whatever they are going to field an awacs in future will be nowhere nearer to Isreali or swedish systems.

Normally Indians reply that they have money to spend and that is why they are starting a project.

Noway, since there was one such project going on during 98-99 but it had to be closed on account of one tragic accident of one of the prototype of awacs. Infact the project was itself started with shoe-string budget and hence money is not an deciding factor.

My thinking is that either they want an indigenous system (which is very good because it eliminates ones dependence on others)

Indigenous Awacs is not only to fill gap that would be rendered by Phalcons but also to augment in more numbers.

or they are not fully satisifed with Falcon (this is purely my guess).

Noway, Phlcon is the second best AWACS system in the world, dissatisfaction from it is completely impossible. More so there are also the report that with present order of 3 phalcon it is highly likely that IAF will going to order another 3 or 6 Phlcons.

Any other reasons, ideas or guesses.

This is nothing but the ambition towards self-relience in Awacs project.

[Keysersoze]

From Jane's

India prepares for significant delay on Phalcon programme
21 November 2007

India's USD1.5 billion contract to mount Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)-made Phalcon airborne early warning radars on three Ilyushin IL-76 A-50 heavy transport aircraft has been significantly delayed, official sources said.

Defence officials conceded that a delay in the delivery of the first Phalcon airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) platform to the Indian Air Force (IAF) by nearly a year to September 2008 was another example of Russia's growing list of delays in supplying military equipment to India.

Consequently, the induction of the remaining two AEW&C aircraft to the IAF in September 2008 and March 2009, in accordance with the three-year-old agreement with the IAI, has now been deferred to April 2009 and August 2010 respectively.

An IAF spokesman in New Delhi declined to comment on the delays.

Official sources said the delay was due to Russia's inability to upgrade the three IL-76s in time, a programme that includes strengthening their airframes and equipping them with more powerful engines.

[Keysersoze]

NEW DELHI: Even as CBI investigates kickbacks in the original Rs 1,160-crore Israeli Barak anti-missile defence system contract, dark clouds seem to be gathering over yet another major arms deal signed with Israel in March 2004.

This time, a reputed Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, has hinted at commissions being paid to an "agent" in the $1.1-billion 'Phalcon' AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) signed with Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) in March 2004.

On being contacted by TOI on Thursday, top Indian defence ministry and IAF officials said they had "no idea" about the new allegations. "The fact is that we are getting cutting-edge defence technology from Israel, which is no doubt expensive," said an official.

"The Barak was crucial to the needs of our Navy since our indigenous Trishul system had failed. Similarly, IAF desperately requires the Phalcons. The security needs of the country should not be hit by such allegations, which could be completely baseless," he added.

IAI was also involved in the original Barak contract signed by the previous NDA regime in October 2000.

The UPA government, however, did not blacklist the firm since it's engaged in several ongoing crucial defence projects with India, which include the Rs 10,000-crore endeavour to develop an advanced Barak medium-range surface-to-air missile system.

In the Phalcon project, three Phalcon early-warning radars are being mounted on Russian heavy-lift IL-76 military aircraft under a tripartite agreement among India, Israel and Russia.

There has been quite a bit of delay in the project, which is supposed to give IAF "potent eyes in the sky" to detect hostile missiles and aircraft much before ground-based sensors.

The first of the three Phalcon AWACS is now slated to arrive in India only towards August-September this year, instead of the earlier delivery date in November 2007.

Haaretz on Thursday reported in detail about the deep links between the "agent", whose name is under "a gag order", and Moshe Keret, who was IAI chief for 20 years till 2005.

The newspaper says the agent, who was handling the marketing of IAI in Russia since the early 1990s, was instrumental in clinching a Phalcon deal with China in 1996-97. Under the exorbitant deal, in which the agent was "paid several million dollars", China was to get a Russian aircraft mounted with the Phalcon radar.

"The deal with China was ultimately scuttled under pressure from the US, and China received $375 million in compensation. But Israel and IAI found a new customer in the Phalcon deal, India, at four times the price, a deal for about $1.1 billion," says the newspaper.

"The India deal is still in the implementation phase, but the agent has received an advance of millions of dollars with many more millions promised," it adds.

Incidentally, though Keret and the agent were both arrested in September 2005, the Israeli attorney general Menachem Mazuz wanted to close the case a few months ago due to lack of clinching legal evidence.

But the Israeli justice ministry has put the decision on hold after an appeal by Ometz, an Israeli non-profit citizens for proper administration, judicial and social justice organisation, says the newspaper.

After Barak, Phalcon deal under cloud-India-The Times of India

[Keysersoze]

I think the above explains a few reasons as to why a indigenous system is being attempted.

1) Despite it being a capable system, three of them would not be able to provide constant coverage on a 24hr basis over a large enough area. hence a cheaper home grown system would allow coverage also allowing for all flanks to be covered.

2)Despite claims of another 3-6 (which would cost somewhere in the region of another 2 billion dollars if the original deal is a guide) haven't heard anything serious of it for the last year and a half. If another deal WERE to go through I am guessing would take another 5-6 years to come into fruition.Bear in mind the
Original Phalcon deal is already delayed.

3)The high cost of these platforms would suggest that inndigenous production would be a prudent precaution for the future. Ergo Pakistan is looking into joint production on other platforms despite ordering 9 aircraft (6 erieye 3 hawkeye 2000's)

[IceCold]

3 phalcons will not be sufficent to give coverage for 24hrs however what about the MKI's? If i am not wrong they could also be used as a mini AWAC. Besides lets not forget that what ever jet india decides to go for her MRCA role, it will have an AESA radar which means that it too could be used for the same purpose.Then why to go for an indegious project given DRDO's long history of not developing products in time.
(I'm sure most people here from the indian side will disagree with my last line however it is a fact that is stated by the indian personals themselves and not anyone else.)

[Energon]

Then why to go for an indegious project given DRDO's long history of not developing products in time.
(I'm sure most people here from the indian side will disagree with my last line however it is a fact that is stated by the indian personals themselves and not anyone else.)

There will be a change in the defense industry with the inclusion of the private sector, who have proven themselves to be very competent on the global scale. This radical change in policy has only come about in the past few months and has provided a slight boost to domestic production.

[su-47]

Knowledge gained from Phalcons will likely be used in the indegenous AWACS program. The indegenous ones will not be in the same league as Phalcon, but they will be potent in their own right and can possibly be fielded in larger numbers.

[KENT]

As I read sometimes back, It should atleast going to exceed the capability of Erieye that is beign acquired by PAF. On the face of it, several european, Isreali as well as US firms in addition to russians are very eager to collabrate with Indian Private and public firms to develop AESA jointly, so I can say with the convication that we can get to see a potent Awacs model which should match the capability of Phalcon. On the top of that, when India attempted to develop Awacs which met with tragic incident but one thing should bear by eveyone over here is that the Radar that was placed on the HF-78 avro was successfully tested on the ground and which is in the leauge of AESA radar, so prospect of India's Awacs are very bright as it only needs some further enhancement in the form of better platform.

Regarding matching capability with Phalcon, as per the new requirement of IAF they need rotodoame to be placed on bigger aircraft not Embrarer that is being currently ordered, so if we manage to fetched bigger aircraft in the leauge of IL or Airbus then position rotodame over it then I think matching the capability of Phalcon can't be ruled out.

[WebMaster]

As I read sometimes back, It should atleast going to exceed the capability of Erieye that is beign acquired by PAF.

Nice post.

Knowledge gained from Phalcons will likely be used in the indegenous AWACS program. The indegenous ones will not be in the same league as Phalcon, but they will be potent in their own right and can possibly be fielded in larger numbers.

Is Phalcon a joint-venture?

[KENT]

Nice post.

And quite valid as well as since whatever we are gona field will definetly be way ahead of our rival in terms of technology since we have Phalcon in place so probablity of advanced model can't be ruled out. Since european countries themselves are joing venturing with Indian firms.

Is Phalcon a joint-venture?

India has already proclaimed that whatever it gona manufacture from now on will be joint venture other then confidential missile development, and Isreal in this respect is quite eager to develop AESA by joint development, so I am not talking about complete joint venture of Phalcon as only one Phlacon will be congfigured to IL-76 in Isreal and follow on Phalcons will be configured in India itself.

[Astra]

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The US denied Israel from selling Phalcons to China, and pakistan is going to jointly develop AWACs with china to get the cutting edge. How nice.