Indian defence & religion

[samantk]

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I am embarrassed by this habit of keeping a model of PSLV in Balaji's feet before taking off. Just because they work at Isro, it doesn't make them immune to stupidity.
I'd like to quote EVR.Periyar here,

" If an Indian steps on a piece of paper he thinks he has stepped on Goddess Saraswati , slapping his cheeks as punishment. A white man uses the same paper to wipe his a$$. But he is the one to send man to moon"

Im not sure you understand the concepts behind they doing so.. That habit of 'slapping cheeks' which may be wrong but the intention behind that practice is not superstition but simply the respect you give to something which gives you knowledge... Also not every piece of paper is respected, that context is reserved for books as far as I know and have seen..

Now, regarding he keeping a model of PSLV at the lords feet is his wish.. he believes in something why are you embarrassed, just because a western dude might think Indians are all like that. That dude did study a lot of science to achieve that position, I respect him for what he did rather than some belief that does not harm anyone in any which way, save your embarrassment...

Oh yeah! crushing a lemon before the train is the best way to preserve our culture. lets first accept that we have a lot of stupidity in our society. The best way to get rid of it is to first accept it exists. Lets preserve the best of our culture and forget the rest.

If someone wants to do it why do you feel bad, we crush lemons some westerners break milk bottles on ships and stuff... who cares... but if something is coming in between free thinking then it should definitely be discarded...

One point I would agree to your opinion is that there are too many useless rituals in Indian society.. which can be done away..

[perplexed]

^ actually the thing is.. many acts(rituals) in pre historic times started due to some reason... but with time the reason was forgot or maybe to novice people the exact explanation was tough so some makeshift reasons were given to make people adhere to it..

so the act may have been totally explainable but since the people(society) lost the urge to look for scientific or rational reasons, it became some blind faith..

#case in point.. a black cat crossing your path.

[Angad_NSA]

I'd like to quote EVR.Periyar here,

" If an Indian steps on a piece of paper he thinks he has stepped on Goddess Saraswati , slapping his cheeks as punishment. A white man uses the same paper to wipe his a$$. But he is the one to send man to moon"

Sending a man to moon kills your enthusiasm and pride? You have a very thin skin. And Periyar obviously sounds like depressed old-Indian(result of colonial slavery). He sounds like a illiterate villager(of 1940's era) who bows to white man whenever he sees him. So, I won't take him seriously. what about you?

Also, its only brown men(with colonial slavery past) who believe that USA sent men to moon. According to Russian whites, many americans and Chinese, it was faked and I believe that. Its logical. Because, if USA could do that in 1960's then repeating that would be so much easier and faster today on much less expense, rather than wasting time on sending robots. So, why USA is not repeating it? Why its making excuses of weak economy and Mars? They lost all science or something suddenly?

By the way, next time your white friend makes fun of you using this argument tell him, "white men used decimal system and astronomy knowledge given by Indians freely to them, to reach moon". Without J.C.Bose's radio wave invention, USA wouldn't be using mobile phones today or communicate with any of their Armstrong sitting in hollywood studio's. And now white men are using sanctions to protect their knowledge so others can't make use of it. But don't worry, we don't need white men, we will reach there on our own, baby. And that will be first landing of human on moon.

Im not sure you understand the concepts behind they doing so.. That habit of 'slapping cheeks' which may be wrong but the intention behind that practice is not superstition but simply the respect you give to something which gives you knowledge... Also not every piece of paper is respected, that context is reserved for books as far as I know and have seen..

In western framework, "respect" to something which comes from non-western source is haraam. It must be stolen, source be ridiculed and spit upon. Jayron is living under unkil's maaya, pardon him. He has no touch with knowledge.

@Jayron, read that book(Being different - Rajiv Malhotra). Its a super one. It exposes white men totally in naked.

[samantk]

^ actually the thing is.. many acts(rituals) in pre historic times started due to some reason... but with time the reason was forgot or maybe to novice people the exact explanation was tough so some makeshift reasons were given to make people adhere to it..

so the act may have been totally explainable but since the people(society) lost the urge to look for scientific or rational reasons, it became some blind faith..

#case in point.. a black cat crossing your path.

That is true... Also, I think Britishers demeaned our people into believing that Indians were inferior and so ruled us making us forget our scientific knowledge and imbibing superstition...

[Angad_NSA]

That is true... Also, I think Britishers demeaned our people into believing that Indians were inferior and so ruled us making us forget our scientific knowledge and imbibing superstition...

Agreed.

The biggest achievements of British were two:

1. Destruction of Indian self-motivation(result: Indians feel no shame in running to western firms and working like slaves. It was only recently that NRIs started growing some skin and pride. Otherwise, even now most NRIs whine about toilets, poverty and stuff and pass-the-blame game. Most NRIs want Indians(residents) to work for country and make it big so these NRIs can stay in foreign lands and boast to their white friends about how great their India is but they don't want to come to India and do their part in hardwork. This is called "lack of motivation", a property found in slaves).

2. Rewriting history and telling Indians, "your past was tribal, we civilized you".(Just watch those leftist psuedo-intellectuals who keep lecturing about ills of our traditions and temple rituals. You will get idea).

[protest]

40 years ago, westernized and english educated people used to call Yoga a superstitious science of backward Indians. Today, every American is mad about taking Yoga classes and western medical experts don't get tired talking about benefits of Yoga on health.

My friend, do some Yoga, it might help lessen your pain and will purify your hateful mind towards religious people. Hate against religions is as harmful as superstitions.

Secondly, Vedic sanatana Dharma is based on science so much that Europeans were baffled and lost all their debates with Shashtris(scholars) held during 18th century when British were here. This is when they decided to ban Sanskrit language to stop people from studying Sanskrit and hence vast base of their mathematics, chemistry and physical health sciences(Ayurveda) knowledge. That was 1858. The purpose was to destroy sense of nationalism and ownership of a rich ancient heritage. Looking at you, I would say, they succeeded in certain ways but now people are discovering the truth behind lies(Aryan-dravid theory) and India is waking up.

And lastly, Persians benefitted immensly from science and mathematics base of mother India in ancient times. Do you know what 786 is? Search on youtube. 786 is derived from symbol "OM".

Your comparing philosophies of a religion to the daily social practices. Philosophy could be verified (albeit scientifically) but how do you scientifically prove the most stupidest of the superstitions like 'rahu kaalam'. Obviously every other country except India doesn't follow such things, would you consider them less fortunate? Some of the other superstitions astonishes me like washing your legs fully otherwise it would be a bad luck or wear certain type of clothes for pujas. Now come on. Would GOD take time to explain how one should dress up for a puja?

PS: Social practices are man made as such they should be evolved along with time. Only ignorants follow them as it is..

[jayron]

Sending a man to moon kills your enthusiasm and pride? You have a very thin skin. And Periyar obviously sounds like depressed old-Indian(result of colonial slavery). He sounds like a illiterate villager(of 1940's era) who bows to white man whenever he sees him. So, I won't take him seriously. what about you?

Also, its only brown men(with colonial slavery past) who believe that USA sent men to moon. According to Russian whites, many americans and Chinese, it was faked and I believe that. Its logical. Because, if USA could do that in 1960's then repeating that would be so much easier and faster today on much less expense, rather than wasting time on sending robots. So, why USA is not repeating it? Why its making excuses of weak economy and Mars? They lost all science or something suddenly?

By the way, next time your white friend makes fun of you using this argument tell him, "white men used decimal system and astronomy knowledge given by Indians freely to them, to reach moon". Without J.C.Bose's radio wave invention, USA wouldn't be using mobile phones today or communicate with any of their Armstrong sitting in hollywood studio's. And now white men are using sanctions to protect their knowledge so others can't make use of it. But don't worry, we don't need white men, we will reach there on our own, baby. And that will be first landing of human on moon.



In western framework, "respect" to something which comes from non-western source is haraam. It must be stolen, source be ridiculed and spit upon. Jayron is living under unkil's maaya, pardon him. He has no touch with knowledge.

@Jayron, read that book(Being different - Rajiv Malhotra). Its a super one. It exposes white men totally in naked.

You are one of those who believe in conspiracy theories. You are going to believe what you want to believe. No amount of science or proof is going to convince you. Live in your cave happily.

[Angad_NSA]

Some of the other superstitions astonishes me like washing your legs fully otherwise it would be a bad luck or wear certain type of clothes for pujas. Now come on. Would GOD take time to explain how one should dress up for a puja?

PS: Social practices are man made as such they should be evolved along with time. Only ignorants follow them as it is..

Wearing certain types for puja is superstition? So, why wear bikinis when in pool? why not swim in shirt-pants? Why not ridicule it as superstition?

You are one of those who believe in conspiracy theories. You are going to believe what you want to believe. No amount of science or proof is going to convince you. Live in your cave happily.

And you are one who thinks all outside perimeters of world built by white men are un-civilized and cavemen. you epitomize result of colonisation. Some heads remain always in sand.

[samantk]

Your comparing philosophies of a religion to the daily social practices. Philosophy could be verified (albeit scientifically) but how do you scientifically prove the most stupidest of the superstitions like 'rahu kaalam'. Obviously every other country except India doesn't follow such things, would you consider them less fortunate? Some of the other superstitions astonishes me like washing your legs fully otherwise it would be a bad luck or wear certain type of clothes for pujas. Now come on. Would GOD take time to explain how one should dress up for a puja?

PS: Social practices are man made as such they should be evolved along with time. Only ignorants follow them as it is..

You are thinking in a closed box, we indians before starting any good work clean ourselves not because it brings bad luck but because we respect what we are doing.. same goes for any religion, a muslims going to a mosque will wash his face and legs, christian going to mass on sunday morn in their best clothes.. its civilization, we are not barbarian..

[jayron]

Im not sure you understand the concepts behind they doing so.. That habit of 'slapping cheeks' which may be wrong but the intention behind that practice is not superstition but simply the respect you give to something which gives you knowledge... Also not every piece of paper is respected, that context is reserved for books as far as I know and have seen..

Now, regarding he keeping a model of PSLV at the lords feet is his wish.. he believes in something why are you embarrassed, just because a western dude might think Indians are all like that. That dude did study a lot of science to achieve that position, I respect him for what he did rather than some belief that does not harm anyone in any which way, save your embarrassment...

If someone wants to do it why do you feel bad, we crush lemons some westerners break milk bottles on ships and stuff... who cares... but if something is coming in between free thinking then it should definitely be discarded...

One point I would agree to your opinion is that there are too many useless rituals in Indian society.. which can be done away..

The case in point is, even after learning rocket science, they still aren't able to think for themselves.

I would like to know the logic behind crushing lemons. I think it is just a tribal belief that a strong smell or taste will ward off evil, just like chilies and garlic.

These practices if anything are holding us back and not helping us in anyway. There have been numerous stories of people not being able to get married because of their Jathakam and things getting delayed (some times with fatal consequences) waiting for the "right alignment of stars".

If the dismal state of various things in out nation does not prove the practices wrong, I dont know what will.

[Angad_NSA]

You are thinking in a closed box, we indians before starting any good work clean ourselves not because it brings bad luck but because we respect what we are doing.. same goes for any religion, a muslims going to a mosque will wash his face and legs, christian going to mass on sunday morn in their best clothes.. its civilization, we are not barbarian..

True.

Many people here are not aware that Britishers of 17th century didn't know that taking bath "daily" is good for health. They used to take bath only once in weeks. When British arrived in India, they started copying Indian way of bathing "daily". So, now we know who were uncivilized and who preach us.

I remember a saying by one of my Indian-American friend, "Indians are developed people living in developing country, while westerners are developing people living in developed country".

I can see how decently a poor family of 6 lives in India while in west, alcoholism, drugism, divorce is rampant. There is utter lack of importance of family system and traditions. Its quite obvious why western white people are so full of contempt of Asian rituals and culture and everytime try to twist things in negative ways. The reason is that, west has always been uncivilized and wild with no cultural heritage whatsoever so they try to show others down to hide their fears. what a shame.

[Angad_NSA]

The case in point is, even after learning rocket science, they still aren't able to think for themselves.

I would like to know the logic behind crushing lemons. I think it is just a tribal belief that a strong smell or taste will ward off evil, just like chilies and garlic.

These practices if anything are holding us back and not helping us in anyway. There have been numerous stories of people not being able to get married because of their Jathakam and things getting delayed (some times with fatal consequences) waiting for the "right alignment of stars".

If the dismal state of various things in out nation does not prove the practices wrong, I dont know what will.

Nothing is holding Indians back. But your way of delusional thinking and your lack of self-motivation is definitely holding you back from contributing in debate in positive ways rather than abusing people and twisting our traditions in negative ways which white men love to do for feeling better themselves.

[samantk]

The case in point is, even after learning rocket science, they still aren't able to think for themselves.

I would like to know the logic behind crushing lemons. I think it is just a tribal belief that a strong smell or taste will ward off evil, just like chilies and garlic.

These practices if anything are holding us back and not helping us in anyway. There have been numerous stories of people not being able to get married because of their Jathakam and things getting delayed (some times with fatal consequences) waiting for the "right alignment of stars".

If the dismal state of various things in out nation does not prove the practices wrong, I dont know what will.

Im not sure how much it is true that the real evil in a person comes to fore when he fears nothing..

Hinduism believes that there is an entity which is above any human being, hell there is enough material to prove that Hindusim was not a religion rather a way of life.. In that context lets see what you say..

That dude you say cannot think for himself and follows something blindly.. we'll he might be doing that but if it interferes in what he does as a rocket scientist then yes he is wrong, but are you privy to that information? I see why people perform pujas, they think that what is in our control we will do but what is not, help me... is it wrong? if it was why does something ever fail?

Crushing lemon is a tough one, but what would you say to breaking milk bottles on a ship? As Angad_NSA said before the context of doing something is forgotten, we need to dwell deeper...

Tell me how crushing a lemon is holding me back from driving my bike? They might not help, agreed but its not coming in between anything..

Yes the marriage part is correct, I assume you are from Andhra pradesh or southern state..

The dismal state is for believing in god coming down and doing things for them(which is not correct from any religion)... they need to do things on their own, till that realization does not pick up, the plague will remain...

[Joe Shearer]

40 years ago, westernized and english educated people used to call Yoga a superstitious science of backward Indians. Today, every American is mad about taking Yoga classes and western medical experts don't get tired talking about benefits of Yoga on health.

It is still not science. It is an exercise procedure at its simplest, A philosophical speculation at its highest. You obviously have no idea of science.

My friend, do some Yoga, it might help lessen your pain and will purify your hateful mind towards religious people. Hate against religions is as harmful as superstitions.

We are not talking about hate against religions, we are talking about mental confusion that wishes to appropriate the word science because it sounds so modern, so sexy, with not the slightest clue of what science involves, and how it is intrinsically opposed to religion. It is even more hostile to the kind of superstition that Tamizhan was touting.

Secondly, Vedic sanatana Dharma is based on science so much that Europeans were baffled and lost all their debates with Shashtris(scholars) held during 18th century when British were here. This is when they decided to ban Sanskrit language to stop people from studying Sanskrit and hence vast base of their mathematics, chemistry and physical health sciences(Ayurveda) knowledge

There was not a single recorded debate with any so-called shastris. There was no question of any defeat in a non-existent debate, or even a discussion.

The Sanskrit language was never banned. It was taken up and studied in depth in western universities well before the nineteenth century, from 1620, in fact.

There is unfortunately no 'vast' base of mathematics. There was no sustained study of mathematics, no curriculum, no text that was studied by traditional scholars in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The path-breaking work of mathematicians in mediaeval and ancient India remained unconnected islands to the ignorant and suprstitious priests of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, who represented the lowest point of decline of Indic civilization and culture.

So, too, about 'chemistry' and about 'physical health sciences'. Considering that disease was rife and life expectancy was at an all-time low, these are totally deluded remarks, with no foundation in fact, no recorded fact, at any rate.

That was 1858. The purpose was to destroy sense of nationalism and ownership of a rich ancient heritage. Looking at you, I would say, they succeeded in certain ways but now people are discovering the truth behind lies(Aryan-dravid theory) and India is waking up.

The Indian Mutiny happened in 1858. Only the utterly ignorant will think that any major step was taken in the field of education or of the development of science in that year. The Macaulay Minute on Education came out earlier, in 1835, not as the forged document circulating states, in 1853. Persian was replaced as the language of administration in 1832. Indians had taken to European education in 1818 and earlier (the nincompoop whose note I am addressing excepted; clearly he is innocent of education of any kind, European or Indian).

It is ironic that our rich heritage had to be re-discovered by foreign scholars before our home-grown hedge-priests deigned to take notice of this.[/QUOTE]

And lastly, Persians benefitted immensly from science and mathematics base of mother India in ancient times.

Can you name one benefit? Just one. Not general knowledge of a mathematical concept, but a benefit.

Do you know what 786 is? Search on youtube. 786 is derived from symbol "OM".

What has this superstition got to do with the benefits claimed to have been gained by the Persians?
The numerology behind 786 as Bismillah is as regressive as the worst of what Hindu priests inflicted on Hindus in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. It is better for someone who believes in that kind of numerological mumbo-jumbo to set right the jackass who derived it from 'Om'. A jackass whose learning is limited to citing something uploaded on YouTube as evidence. My stomach can take so much and no more.

[Rig Vedic]

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what scientific temper is displayed in crushing lemons?

Many such practices have a significance rooted in Indic philosophy.

I suggest you give up your fanatical attitude.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

As far as my personal opinion is concerned, it is as important as yours; it was your personal opinion to consider these stupidities as worthy of publicity. Further, during my tenure as CEO of a key joint venture between a western multinational and a Ministry of Defence undertaking, these village superstitions were completely eliminated, and nobody felt the lack. Nor did they cling on to Rahu Kaalam once they were told firmly to discard it. I made it count, in a valuable way.

I find highly distasteful the vitriol and contempt you pour on our villagers, where most our population lives.

There is deep philosophical significance behind many of the simple rituals.

I hope you will have the humility to realize that many people far smarter than you do cherish them.

If, in your private business, you want to make the workplace hostile to Indic culture, that is nobody else's affair. There are many smart people who would find your fanaticism distasteful, and would not want to work with you.