INDIA’S DEFENSE: THE SHOCKING TRUTH.

[Muradk]

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The Indian Army’s soldiers, The officers, are very very Brave and they make do with what they have. And so far they have done a good job. But the future wars are not going to be man-dependent; They’re going to be machine dependent and system-dependent. If they are left with what they have today God Help them.
India’s night-fighting capabilities is virtually nonexistent. The artillery is of poor quality. The new assault rifles that the Indian Soldier is supposed to use will take least another three to four years before they are acquired. For the last three years, the army has not fired a single 9mm carbine because it does not have the ammunition. The army has not carried out practice rounds for its tanks because it lacks 125mm ammunition. It is using air defense guns from the 1950’s and their radar network is poor.

All this started when in September 2010 the government called upon its services to be prepared to fight a two-fronts war against Pakistan and China which was nothing new it is the Defense Ministry Directives but this directive does not point out what it actually wants and what kind of capability it wants of the military.
As far as the equipment profile of the 3 armed services is concerned, the army is the worst-off. And that is what General Singh had written to the prime minister about. He had said there is no ammunition for the tanks, the infantry is in bad shape, and the air defense is obsolete. What General Singh has said is something that has been reiterated over the years by comptroller and auditor general, the public accounts committee and the parliament’s defense committee. The reality is a lot worse than what he has written in his letter. India’s night-fighting capability is virtually nonexistent. Over 75 percent of its armor fleet is incapable of operating in the dark. The army’s entire helicopter fleet too is night-blind. The artillery is of poor quality because the range of the artillery that the Indian military has is roughly about 35 to 37 km( 21.7 to 22.9 miles), whereas the range of Pakistan and China is 40km plus ( 24.8 miles). Last November in an emergency purchase Indian army purchased 66,000 125mm rounds from Russia at tremendous cost $ 60 mil.
The profile of Indian Army Aviation is pathetic, The Helicopters they are using are from the 1960’s and have been upgraded. The acquisition of 197 light observation helicopters has been help up for the last 10 years, Last tender was cancelled in 2007 and was re-tendered, but it is still in process.


Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

[harpoon]

You forgot to mention..we have only 2 days of ammo.

[Muradk]

You forgot to mention..we have only 2 days of ammo.

Thanks for the info I actually didn't know that. I thought 13 days.

[Syama Ayas]

Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

People say its the defense minister, who has banned any supplier suspected of giving bribes.

[Papa]

The Indian Army’s soldiers, The officers, are very very Brave and they make do with what they have. And so far they have done a good job. But the future wars are not going to be man-dependent; They’re going to be machine dependent and system-dependent. If they are left with what they have today God Help them.
India’s night-fighting capabilities is virtually nonexistent. The artillery is of poor quality. The new assault rifles that the Indian Soldier is supposed to use will take least another three to four years before they are acquired. For the last three years, the army has not fired a single 9mm carbine because it does not have the ammunition. The army has not carried out practice rounds for its tanks because it lacks 125mm ammunition. It is using air defense guns from the 1950’s and their radar network is poor.

All this started when in September 2010 the government called upon its services to be prepared to fight a two-fronts war against Pakistan and China which was nothing new it is the Defense Ministry Directives but this directive does not point out what it actually wants and what kind of capability it wants of the military.
As far as the equipment profile of the 3 armed services is concerned, the army is the worst-off. And that is what General Singh had written to the prime minister about. He had said there is no ammunition for the tanks, the infantry is in bad shape, and the air defense is obsolete. What General Singh has said is something that has been reiterated over the years by comptroller and auditor general, the public accounts committee and the parliament’s defense committee. The reality is a lot worse than what he has written in his letter. India’s night-fighting capability is virtually nonexistent. Over 75 percent of its armor fleet is incapable of operating in the dark. The army’s entire helicopter fleet too is night-blind. The artillery is of poor quality because the range of the artillery that the Indian military has is roughly about 35 to 37 km( 21.7 to 22.9 miles), whereas the range of Pakistan and China is 40km plus ( 24.8 miles). Last November in an emergency purchase Indian army purchased 66,000 125mm rounds from Russia at tremendous cost $ 60 mil.
The profile of Indian Army Aviation is pathetic, The Helicopters they are using are from the 1960’s and have been upgraded. The acquisition of 197 light observation helicopters has been help up for the last 10 years, Last tender was cancelled in 2007 and was re-tendered, but it is still in process.


Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

But your another mate has different opinion :

According to Gen. Hameed gul, it is a night mare for any military commander to fighting a two front war. If India finds China inevitably as its enemy, India should have re-thought its relationship with Pakistan to avoid a two-front war scenario. But I don't know what makes India think that they can fight a two-front war fighting two nuclear powered countries and would still be able to win and survive. India has twice the number of soldiers as compared to Pakistan but China's women force alone has greater potential than entire Indian force and if you combine both China and Pakistan, you can calculate the combined potential vs Indian Potential.

If you need to learn from a recent example, see how USA and NATO lost their two front war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Is India alone more powerful than combined potential of USA and NATO??? and when India will be fighting against Pakistan and China, the countries with full military potentials and not sanctioned prone Iraq and torn Afghanistan? Seriously, 30 years down the road we will find historians right where India made its pivotal mistake.

But when Leaders go mad, they are hard to cure.

Thanks for the info I actually didn't know that. I thought 13 days.

We are going to conduct largest ever exercise in thar desert of Rajasthan named SHOORVEER. Hope you will get much of answer to your queries.

IAF’s Sukhois to take part in military exercise ‘Shoorveer’
Regards

[persona_non_grata]

Thanks for the info I actually didn't know that. I thought 13 days.

A very long thread on this subject

[harpoon]

People say its the defense minister, who has banned any supplier suspected of giving bribes.

He is called Saint Antony for nothing, but personally I don't want saints to lead us.

[satishkumarcsc]

The Indian Army’s soldiers, The officers, are very very Brave and they make do with what they have. And so far they have done a good job. But the future wars are not going to be man-dependent; They’re going to be machine dependent and system-dependent. If they are left with what they have today God Help them.
India’s night-fighting capabilities is virtually nonexistent. The artillery is of poor quality. The new assault rifles that the Indian Soldier is supposed to use will take least another three to four years before they are acquired. For the last three years, the army has not fired a single 9mm carbine because it does not have the ammunition. The army has not carried out practice rounds for its tanks because it lacks 125mm ammunition. It is using air defense guns from the 1950’s and their radar network is poor.

All this started when in September 2010 the government called upon its services to be prepared to fight a two-fronts war against Pakistan and China which was nothing new it is the Defense Ministry Directives but this directive does not point out what it actually wants and what kind of capability it wants of the military.
As far as the equipment profile of the 3 armed services is concerned, the army is the worst-off. And that is what General Singh had written to the prime minister about. He had said there is no ammunition for the tanks, the infantry is in bad shape, and the air defense is obsolete. What General Singh has said is something that has been reiterated over the years by comptroller and auditor general, the public accounts committee and the parliament’s defense committee. The reality is a lot worse than what he has written in his letter. India’s night-fighting capability is virtually nonexistent. Over 75 percent of its armor fleet is incapable of operating in the dark. The army’s entire helicopter fleet too is night-blind. The artillery is of poor quality because the range of the artillery that the Indian military has is roughly about 35 to 37 km( 21.7 to 22.9 miles), whereas the range of Pakistan and China is 40km plus ( 24.8 miles). Last November in an emergency purchase Indian army purchased 66,000 125mm rounds from Russia at tremendous cost $ 60 mil.
The profile of Indian Army Aviation is pathetic, The Helicopters they are using are from the 1960’s and have been upgraded. The acquisition of 197 light observation helicopters has been help up for the last 10 years, Last tender was cancelled in 2007 and was re-tendered, but it is still in process.


Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

Sir,

You have been in the forces for long enough and you pretty well know that these are done just for fast-tracking the procurement process and also you know when they cry out like this. This was done when the Chief was retiring. So why start a troll thread?

[Markus]

Thats right, where does all the money go ?

Its ridiculous to even know that Indian army (which is among top 3 in the world) is running short of ammo and our politicians are talking about 2 front wars.

Can it get any worse than this? I hope not !

[Muradk]

People say its the defense minister, who has banned any supplier suspected of giving bribes.

Friend there is a lot of Corruption in military acquisitions because the volume of money is so high. If you look at the Medium Multi-role-Combat Aircraft deal, it is worth about $16 Billion to $17 Billion that is a huge amount of money if someone is getting 1% kickback that's a lot. By 2022 which is the end of the 13th five-year finance plan, India has allocated $100 billion for arms acquisitions. So there is a lot of scope of corruption on both civilian and military sides. the Bofors episode is used after 25 years as an excuse to not do anything. And with the Indian government style political class has the power but no sense of taking the right decision. The trend seems to be buy big ticket items before elections.

.

I didn't start this thread as to make India look bad my intentions are information getting some from you and give some too you. You guys are most welcomed to close the thread if you want to.

[Windjammer]

But your another mate has different opinion :





We are going to conduct largest ever exercise in thar desert of Rajasthan named SHOORVEER. Hope you will get much of answer to your queries.

IAF’s Sukhois to take part in military exercise ‘Shoorveer’
Regards

In an exercise, you may spend a lot of man hours and fuel but not much in ways of arms and ammunition.

[satishkumarcsc]

Friend there is a lot of Corruption in military acquisitions because the volume of money is so high. If you look at the Medium Multi-role-Combat Aircraft deal, it is worth about $16 Billion to $17 Billion that is a huge amount of money if someone is getting 1% kickback that's a lot. By 2022 which is the end of the 13th five-year finance plan, India has allocated $100 billion for arms acquisitions. So there is a lot of scope of corruption on both civilian and military sides. the Bofors episode is used after 25 years as an excuse to not do anything. And with the Indian government style political class has the power but no sense of taking the right decision. The trend seems to be buy big ticket items before elections.

.

I didn't start this thread as to make India look bad my intentions are information getting some from you and give some too you. You guys are most welcomed to close the thread if you want to.

Well sir, The thing is all ammunitions have something called as the shelf life. With an army as big as India, China, US the number of ammunition is just too high and it will take time to actually replace it after the expiry date is over. The red-tapism in the acquisition always slows down the process thus hurting the army's stockpile. This is what happened and before it actually starts to run low the generals will always rattle the government a bit talking about the war fighting capability. Just as our Field Marshall told we are headed by stupid people who just cant tell the difference between a motor and a mortar.

[rockstar]

It is a well known fact that Indian Army aviation is in bad shape, there are processes going on for Apache, LCH etc. which will join the forces soon.

Air defense by 'army' is relatively obsolete as the main are sa-6 & sa-125s which went through a mid life upgrade till 'Akash's fill them.

There is indeed a gap for modanising the forces but will be filled very soon. All these hue and cry is to fast track it.

[jai231179]

The Indian Army’s soldiers, The officers, are very very Brave and they make do with what they have. And so far they have done a good job. But the future wars are not going to be man-dependent; They’re going to be machine dependent and system-dependent. If they are left with what they have today God Help them.
India’s night-fighting capabilities is virtually nonexistent. The artillery is of poor quality. The new assault rifles that the Indian Soldier is supposed to use will take least another three to four years before they are acquired. For the last three years, the army has not fired a single 9mm carbine because it does not have the ammunition. The army has not carried out practice rounds for its tanks because it lacks 125mm ammunition. It is using air defense guns from the 1950’s and their radar network is poor.

All this started when in September 2010 the government called upon its services to be prepared to fight a two-fronts war against Pakistan and China which was nothing new it is the Defense Ministry Directives but this directive does not point out what it actually wants and what kind of capability it wants of the military.
As far as the equipment profile of the 3 armed services is concerned, the army is the worst-off. And that is what General Singh had written to the prime minister about. He had said there is no ammunition for the tanks, the infantry is in bad shape, and the air defense is obsolete. What General Singh has said is something that has been reiterated over the years by comptroller and auditor general, the public accounts committee and the parliament’s defense committee. The reality is a lot worse than what he has written in his letter. India’s night-fighting capability is virtually nonexistent. Over 75 percent of its armor fleet is incapable of operating in the dark. The army’s entire helicopter fleet too is night-blind. The artillery is of poor quality because the range of the artillery that the Indian military has is roughly about 35 to 37 km( 21.7 to 22.9 miles), whereas the range of Pakistan and China is 40km plus ( 24.8 miles). Last November in an emergency purchase Indian army purchased 66,000 125mm rounds from Russia at tremendous cost $ 60 mil.
The profile of Indian Army Aviation is pathetic, The Helicopters they are using are from the 1960’s and have been upgraded. The acquisition of 197 light observation helicopters has been help up for the last 10 years, Last tender was cancelled in 2007 and was re-tendered, but it is still in process.


Question India is the world's largest weapons importer so why is it in a mess and who is responsible for it.

I believe u guys have seen it more than once in recent times that we are always prepared for war. That whole 'leaked memo' worked magic anyways. Procurement has increased a great deal for sure.

[Papa]

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In an exercise, you may spend a lot of man hours and fuel but not much in ways of arms and ammunition.

How did you conclude that?

I think you have missed some of info from the link.

With more than 50,000 troops, the army will be testing the skills of its infantry, artillery and armoured units for launching an offensive on enemy lines during peak summer months.

The exercise also involves both day and night operations by the air and ground troops, the officials said.

No doubt we are short in arms and ammunition but not that one lead to humiliation. We have enough stock pile. Moreover, leaked out info is keeping 2 front war in mind.