2nd Boeing P-8I aircraft for India completes 1st flight

[Abingdonboy]

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I think,nothing beats the russians when it comes to spares and equipments during war!

Right it's just peacetime when they struggle to provide adequate spares to their customers, right?

that is because America is not socialist when it comes to working. We believe that result is the ultimate measurement, not BS.

India should buy more from America. We provide the best technology. And also, there is no need for modification as we have the best. Finally, we would not take your money for TOT. Those guys giving you TOT for part of their system are just ripping you off. Can't do jack with a partial TOT. Is the French going to share with you the whole detail experience of designing engine for Rafael so you can redesign it from scratch and improve upon it? Get real.

In some cases the whole ToT nonsense is just a smokescreen for mammoth price rises but in many cases it also provides genuine and tangible effects on the Indian defence industry. MMRCA is a game changer for ToT, many "sweeteners" have been thrown in by Dassualt that the ToT/off-set implications of this one deal are EPIC in scale!

[sancho]

True. Indian Navy is the best when it comes to induction and planning.

Gorshkov, Nerpa SSN, conventional sub competition, MRMR competition...

Compared to the other 2, they are way smaller in regard to personal and equipment that needs to be replaced and still have big delays in their modernisation program. However, they benefit from the best part of the indigenous defence industry, because even with Scorpene and IAC 1 delays, the naval side is where India is most comparable to other counterparts.

[samantk]

that is because America is not socialist when it comes to working. We believe that result is the ultimate measurement, not BS.

India should buy more from America. We provide the best technology. And also, there is no need for modification as we have the best. Finally, we would not take your money for TOT. Those guys giving you TOT for part of their system are just ripping you off. Can't do jack with a partial TOT. Is the French going to share with you the whole detail experience of designing engine for Rafael so you can redesign it from scratch and improve upon it? Get real.

Im sorry you guys have to get real.. you guys are the top in innovation and have earned it so.. but when you talk about manufacturing stuff, you guys are expensive..

You guys effectively have to stay ahead of the game because that is your forte.. Now when you talk about Transfer of a technology which is being given by others quite freely you have competition right at your face... So your controlling old and available tech is loosing you money..

[sancho]

Right it's just peacetime when they struggle to provide adequate spares to their customers, right?

No, but a safe supply without any operational restrictions and based on an partnership, not just in a buyer seller relationship and that's a huge difference. The times of India beeing dependend on goodwill of foreign suppliers is over, today we ask and if they can and want to give us their best, they can have the deal and if not (F18SH, F16IN, S92, Bell LUH...), thanks but no thanks!

[sexy gun]

Nothing can beat the lightening pace at which Mirages were fitted with LGBs during kargil conflict. The entire modification and approval thing were done like within a span of few days !!

No amount of deeper than mountain and higher than ocean partnership will ever beat that !!

Nothing can beat the lightening pace at which Mirages were fitted with LGBs during kargil conflict. The entire modification and approval thing were done like within a span of few days !!

No amount of deeper than mountain and higher than ocean partnership will ever beat that !!

[acetophenol]

Right it's just peacetime when they struggle to provide adequate spares to their customers, right?



In some cases the whole ToT nonsense is just a smokescreen for mammoth price rises but in many cases it also provides genuine and tangible effects on the Indian defence industry. MMRCA is a game changer for ToT, many "sweeteners" have been thrown in by Dassualt that the ToT/off-set implications of this one deal are EPIC in scale!

Even though they charged us like hell,they have supplied stuff quickly during wars,like arty shell during kargil. At peace time,huh,you know that right?

Gorshkov, Nerpa SSN, conventional sub competition, MRMR competition...

Compared to the other 2, they are way smaller in regard to personal and equipment that needs to be replaced and still have big delays in their modernisation program. However, they benefit from the best part of the indigenous defence industry, because even with Scorpene and IAC 1 delays, the naval side is where India is most comparable to other counterparts.

Compared to IA and IAF,IN projects may be small,and but they are big when it comes within the navy circle and don't forget the navy budget!

[sancho]

Compared to IA and IAF,IN projects may be small,and but they are big when it comes within the navy circle and don't forget the navy budget!

I didn't meant that their projects are small, but for the less projects they have, they do have much delays, so we can't really say they are better in planning the modernisations.
The navy has a smaller budget, because it is less important, at least for the threats of the past. The land and air forces of our opponents were the biggest threats and that's why navy had a minor importance. In the future however, especially countering PLAN and projecting the power towards China will be important and that's when IN will get more money as well.

[Abingdonboy]

It's true, the IN benefits on the procurement front from its relative smaller size when compared to IA. Whilst their annual budget may be similar wrt share of entire FY defence budget the IA's huge human capital means running cost are exponential more and with similar funds the IN has a much larger capital acquisitions budget. I heard that back in late 90s/early 00s 2/3s of the IA's annual budget was spent purely on maintenaning present force levels and nothing else. The situation may have gotten better recently but this constraint still exists but will reduce over time as the entire defence budget increases organically .

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

It's true, the IN benefits on the procurement front from its relative smaller size when compared to IA. Whilst their annual budget may be similar wrt share of entire FY defence budget the IA's huge human capital means running cost are exponential more and with similar funds the IN has a much larger capital acquisitions budget. I heard that back in late 90s/early 00s 2/3s of the IA's annual budget was spent purely on maintenaning present force levels and nothing else. The situation may have gotten better recently but this constraint still exists but will reduce over time as the entire defence budget increases organically .

There can be no excuses for not inducting a Artillery gun in over 20 years.

[Abingdonboy]

There can be no excuses for not inducting a Artillery gun in over 20 years.

Of course not- that wasn't a bugetary thing but a bearcratic thing, the finances were there but not politcan wanted to touch the deal with a barge poll due to past arty controversies. But I was trying to explain to those saying the IN has the best procurment policy and faster induction rates and was trying to explain why that is.

[Bhairava]

True. Indian Navy is the best when it comes to induction and planning.

My salute to the Men and Women of the IN.They are doing a remarkable job and i hope the Army learns a thing or two on planning and induction from them.

It's more to do with politics surrounding the acquisitions than any Army procedure. Seriously, can you blame the Army for the arty fiasco ? Bofors has become a forbidden word thanks to Congress.

Also you cant base the induction on this one alone -- this is because the Americans are phenomenal in delivering the orders before date. What has become of the IAC-I for instance ? Still languishing with only 30% of the work complete after 4 years.

If tomorrow IA is to order M777 they would also be delivered on the ***.

Yes, Army must take some blame for the stall in upgradation process..but its not like the other forces are somehow exceptional in induction/upgradation.

[jbgt90]

wow . it was hardly a few weeks ago when the first plane took off for test flights. what ever you say about the Americans , they can sure build them quick

[keerthan]

wow . it was hardly a few weeks ago when the first plane took off for test flights. what ever you say about the Americans , they can sure build them quick

yeah no one can beat them in delivering products on or even before the timeframe in many cases.
I am sure they will deliver atleast 3 P-8I by next yr ending

[tvsram1992]

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@Amerikan lovers ,
The ultimate purpose of weapons is how best they are useful at war time , not during peacetime . History says that the top 3 countries whom we can trust are
1.Russia
2.France
3.Israel
I wonder if US gives full support to P8Is during war with Pakistan or hostile conditions . We can manage them to work for some time with out help from US , but during long run , we need support .