News for Mirage-2000 upgrade

[Yeti]

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I heard $800 million is going just on the Mica missiles for the fighter.

[luckyyy]

I heard $800 million is going just on the Mica missiles for the fighter.

that missile costs $3ml each....compare to russian missile which cost $0.1ml...

even i just couldn't understand what IAF wants to upgrade from franch when the same can be done by DRDO itself...

[Yeti]

that missile costs $3ml each....compare to russian missile which cost $0.1ml...

even i just couldn't understand what IAF wants to upgrade from franch when the same can be done by DRDO itself...

I do not feel we can do this level of upgrade this is very complex work Israel is quoting us less but the work will not be the same, I still feel we need this deal because Mirage will be our nuclear strike fighter for the next 20 years after the upgrade.

The entire airframe will be stripped down to be re-wired and re-equipped with new avionics, mission computers, glass cockpits, helmet-mounted displays, electronic warfare suites and of course weapon systems to extend and enhance the operational life of the multi-role fighters by around 20 years.

[angeldemon_007]

Those M2K-9 are the most developed versions and are pretty new, which means UAE will ask for a good ammount of money, just like Qatar did when we asked for their M2K-5.

Yeah you are right Sancho, dats the only problem in our case but we can still talk. I said all that because in my opinion both typhoon and Rafale should be inducted because they are very lethal.

why MIG-35 won't be given the mmrca deal mr.naik..?

If we buy this, then almost 90 % of Indian fighters will be Russian made. This is what India does not want. Strategically, economically this will be the stupidest decision. Apart from this Russians have already made this clear that the first mig 35 won't be delivered until 2013 but as per the terms of our deal we will need 18 fighter right away from the vendor which Russia won't be able to provide.
Even Russians know they won't get this deal and thats why they are not trying much.

even i just couldn't understand what IAF wants to upgrade from franch when the same can be done by DRDO itself

No not possible by our DRDO and HAL. Although we could have gone to Israel but I think it won't be good for political point of view and thats why this project will commence.

[luckyyy]

i think DRDO can upgrade these mirage by there own..
look at what the upgrade includes :

The upgrades include:

-- New avionics, including an advanced navigation system, mission computers, Mil 1553 B data with Digibus, a pulse doppler radar that can find objects out to 70 nautical miles
-- Two displays and an advanced head-down display in a glass cockpit
-- Electronic warfare systems, including new radar warning receivers with instantaneous wide-bank receivers, an integrated missile warning receiver with continuous time-to-impact information, and new jammers and countermeasure systems
-- Increased fuel capacity
-- Four Derby beyond-visual-range missiles
-- Two short-to-medium-range Python V missiles
-- Long-range smart munitions
-- Full mission simulators

most of these systems are presently been build in india and has been installed on LCA and other IAF fighters..

[Yeti]

i think DRDO can upgrade these mirage by there own..
look at what the upgrade includes :


most of these systems are presently been build in india and has been installed on LCA and other IAF fighters..

What about stripping the airframe? this is very complex and what systems will we fit inside we would have to buy them anyway from Israel or France there would still be a cost

[Kinetic]

What about stripping the airframe? this is very complex and what systems will we fit inside we would have to buy them anyway from Israel or France there would still be a cost

Bro its not about India or Israel but OEM France. The upgrade include deep overhaul of the engine and airframe that can be done well by France. Though Israel had long experience of using and upgrading Mirages and they offered us to do the upgrade at half the cost still India went to OEM ie France. French weapons usually costs more than others.

The upgrades include:

-- New avionics, including an advanced navigation system, mission computers, Mil 1553 B data with Digibus, a pulse doppler radar that can find objects out to 70 nautical miles
-- Two displays and an advanced head-down display in a glass cockpit
-- Electronic warfare systems, including new radar warning receivers with instantaneous wide-bank receivers, an integrated missile warning receiver with continuous time-to-impact information, and new jammers and countermeasure systems
-- Increased fuel capacity
-- Four Derby beyond-visual-range missiles
-- Two short-to-medium-range Python V missiles
-- Long-range smart munitions
-- Full mission simulators

This can be done by India/Israel with much less cost but not the engine and airframe aslo the OEM better understand the fighter.

[sancho]

on this argument , why MIG-35 won't be given the mmrca deal mr.naik..?

also inplace of upgrade if IAF buys a new su-30mki , don't the trained people, erecting infrastructure, logistics, spares supply and life time support is already there for su-30mki..?

Because MMRCA is something different than upgrading an already existing fighter!
Less training is a pro for the Mig in MMRCA, but that doesn't equalise all the downsides it has, let alone that it simply doesn't give IAF any new valuable capability, or weapon
Replacing the Mirage with a new MKI makes no sense, because the maintenance costs are clearly higher, not to mention that they serve in different roles.

i think DRDO can upgrade these mirage by there own..
look at what the upgrade includes :


most of these systems are presently been build in india and has been installed on LCA and other IAF fighters..

That's not what Mirage upgrade includes, because they won't get Israeli missiles and HAL will do the upgrade in India, after Dassault has cleared it.

I said all that because in my opinion both typhoon and Rafale should be inducted because they are very lethal.

Insted of the Mirage 2000 upgrade, or do you mean in MMRCA? Buying both doesn't make sense anyway, because we already have the air superiority fighter counterpart to EF and for strikes it simply not useful enough.

[luckyyy]

Because MMRCA is something different than upgrading an already existing fighter!


Less training is a pro for the Mig in MMRCA, but that doesn't equalise all the downsides it has, let alone that it simply doesn't give IAF any new valuable capability, or weapon

which new capabilities or weapons will mmrca bring that india already won't have or can have/buy ?

Replacing the Mirage with a new MKI makes no sense, because the maintenance costs are clearly higher, not to mention that they serve in different roles.

IAF never came out with maintanance cost figure of different aircrafts , but by taiwan new we know that flying hour cost of mirage is more then $20000......that big , even more then su-30mki..

diffrent aircrafts to serve different roles are the thing of past...

That's not what Mirage upgrade includes, because they won't get Israeli missiles and HAL will do the upgrade in India, after Dassault has cleared it.

the first post of this thread states that what upgrade will includes ...
israeli missile are already fitted on navy seaharrier , why IAF won't get it..?

[sancho]

which new capabilities or weapons will mmrca bring that india already won't have or can have/buy ?

Super cruise, swashplate AESAs, latest EWS and avionics that are not on offer for export, US, or European weapo packs, lower RCSs, better strike capabilities than the Mig and several things more!

IAF never came out with maintanance cost figure of different aircrafts , but by taiwan new we know that flying hour cost of mirage is more then $20000......that big , even more then su-30mki..

Which is bogus, because that would be even more that most MMRCAs and when IAF never came out with maintenance, how do you know that MKI is less?

diffrent aircrafts to serve different roles are the thing of past...

I'm not talking about multi role capabilities, but about quick reaction forces, for interceptions. Whenever an unidentified aircraft will be detected, IAF sends Mig 29s, or M2Ks and not the MKI.

the first post of this thread states that what upgrade will includes ...
israeli missile are already fitted on navy seaharrier , why IAF won't get it..?

And now that we know that the upgrade will be done by French and with French weapons, we can rule this old news out.

[dr.crazze]

is there any tot involved i mean in mica missile terms

[ejaz007]

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India Approves $2.4B French Mirage Jet Upgrade
By ABHAYA SRIVASTAVA
Published: 14 Jul 2011 12:27

NEW DELHI - India has approved a $2.4-billion deal for French defense groups to upgrade 51 ageing Mirage fighter jets, officials said July 14, as the country takes further steps to boost its military capacity.

The long-delayed deal is part of a major modernization program being undertaken by India, which has become the biggest importer of military hardware among emerging nations as it enjoys rapid economic development.

"The defense secretary has agreed to the proposal put forward by French defense majors Dassault and Thales and (European group) MBDA for the Mirage-2000 retrofit," a source in the Indian Air Force (IAF) told AFP.

The upgrade of the French-built Mirage jets is expected to include advanced navigation systems, mission computers, electronic warfare systems and radar.

The process is likely to take nine years and will see two of the jets being refitted in France, said the source who declined to be named.

Other aircraft will be upgraded at the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics base in Bangalore.

No confirmation of the deal was released by the Indian government, but a defense ministry official told AFP that the decision was cleared by the cabinet committee on security on July 13.

The overhaul of the fleet will add 20-25 years to the life of the Mirages, which were introduced to the Indian air force in the mid-1980s.

The deal had been frozen for five years due to differences over costs and the intended benefits to the IAF, which is also finalizing a $12 billion deal to buy 126 new combat aircraft.

The IAF has argued that the Mirage upgrade was good value as it will transform the aircraft into cutting-edge combat planes.

"The history of Mirage shows that it is one of the most reliable multi-role fighter aircraft," Neeru Khatri, a defense analyst with international consultancy firm KPMG, told AFP. "It was used very intelligently during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan (in 1999). It definitely makes sense to upgrade it and use it for the next two decades because it is not beyond economic repair."

India in February boosted military spending to 1.65 trillion rupees ($36 billion) for the financial year to March 2012 from 1.47 trillion rupees the previous year.

KPMG estimates New Delhi will hand out military contracts worth $112 billion by 2016.

"Refurbishing and upgrading of the current inventory is one of the most important strategic goals of the IAF," said Kapil Kak, additional director of New Delhi's Centre of Air Power Studies think-tank.

"India has never been in a worse situation as far as strength of its combat fleet is concerned. The new acquisitions and upgradations will transform the IAF beyond recognition in the next few years."

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, India over the last five years was the world's biggest importer of weapons - buying mostly from Russia.

The country is upgrading its million-plus military with hardware worth tens of billions of dollars because of its long-standing tensions with regional rivals China and Pakistan.

It has also been investing in homeland security since the 2008 attacks by Islamist gunmen which left 166 people killed in India's financial capital Mumbai.

Abhaya Srivastava reports for Agence France-Presse.

India Approves $2.4B French Mirage Jet Upgrade - Defense News