MRCA News & Discussions

[marcos98]

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Anticipating MMRCA offsets, HAL planning large aero structures unit
Anticipating MMRCA offsets, HAL planning large aero structures unit : Defense news


As India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition is entering the decision phase, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is planning to set up a large aero structures unit to take advantage of the possible offsets business arising out of the $10 billion deal. Irrespective of whichever company wins the MMRCA bid, they will have to partner with HAL to licence-manufacture the aircraft in India and are certain to select HAL as the offsets partner as well.

HAL director, Corporate Planning and Marketing, P. Soundara Rajan told defenseworld.net that memoranda of understanding had been signed with all the MMRCA bidders: Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Dassault, Saab, Eurofighter and MiG as possible offsets partner to meet a part of the 50% offsets arising out of the contract. He said the aero structures unit would meet the export opprtunies of the offsets work. HAL also expects to supply different systems designed and manufactured in HAL’s various divisions such as Hyderabad, Lucknow & Korwa against offset.

HAL has extensive experience in aero structures while dealing with international aerospace companies such as Airbus, Boeing, Ruag, IAI and Embraer.

These companies have been sourcing aero structures from HAL for some years now. Most of the contracts with these companies were entered into when there was no offsets obligations, he added. Recognizing HAL’s capability in timely and cost effective aerospace quality supplies, Boeing had recently conferred upon HAL, the “Supplier of the year” award, he added.

[marcos98]

The ultimate death stare: New RAF helmet allows pilots to shoot down enemy jets by looking at them

By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
3rd January 2011


Pilot can glance at an aircraft he wants to fire a missile at by using his mind

It looks no more high-tech than any other fighter pilot helmet.
But this £250,000 headset allows RAF pilots to shoot down planes simply by looking at them.
The ‘Striker’ Integrated Display Helmet marks one of the biggest leaps forward in attack capabilities in military history.

How it works: The £250,000 'Striker' Integrated Display Helmet allows RAF pilots to shoot down planes simply by looking at them. As long as the enemy's aircraft is in sight, a missile can be directed towards it



All a pilot has to do is glance at an enemy aircraft and then steer a missile towards it with his, or her, mind.
Targets pop-up in the pilot's visor, at which point he can select by voice command and fire.

As long as the enemy's aircraft is in sight - whether that be below, above or to either side - a missile can be directed towards it.
The breakthrough brings to an end the century-old concept of the aerial dogfight, in which one plane must be directly behind another in order to hit it with firepower.

The innovative two-part helmet design has been co-developed with aircrew and logistic support engineering participation.
It works by using tiny optical sensors in the Striker helmet, which are then picked up by further sensors in the cockpit.

In flight: The helmet has undergone extensive testing in RAF Typhoon aircraft

'It means the end of the dogfight,' leading pilot Mark Bowman told The Sun.
'Traditionally you have to get behind an aircraft to lock on. With this, I steer the weapons with my head.'
The helmet has been developed by Britain's BAE Systems and has been subjected to extensive flight trials in RAF Typhoon planes.
A spokesperson for BAE said: 'An advanced optical head tracker is integrated into the helmet system to provide a high accuracy/low latency solution for low, medium, and high altitude operations.
'While the system has been designed for the Eurofighter Typhoon, its modular design can be applied to all platforms, both rotary and fixed wing.'

Tiny optical sensors in the helmet pick up when the pilot locks onto enemy aircraft, and this is then picked up by further sensors in the cockpit

Read more: New RAF helmet allows pilots to shoot down enemy jets by looking at them | Mail Online

[truthseeker2010]

but this helmet will only work in within visual range situations.

[sancho]

Contract Talks Moving Slowly On MMRCA

Jan 5, 2011

By Neelam Mathews
New Delhi


India has proved once again that it cannot move too fast in acquiring a major weapon system.

Even as the evaluation of its Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender comes closer to its final stages, evidence is mounting that downselect winners will not learn of their acceptance until the fourth quarter instead of the first.

The MMRCA contract promises an order for 126 aircraft and is the largest military procurement pending in India. It has drawn bids from the Mikoyan MiG-35, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, Boeing F/A-18E/F and Lockheed Martin F-16.

India requires that any aircraft or weapon system introduced into service clear all tests and evaluations. All of the MMRCA candidates have completed user trials, including weapons, technical and maintainability evaluations. Currently, the bidders are being evaluated on their proposals for industrial offsets, with technology transfer to come next.

Only when this process produces a short list will their commercial offers be evaluated. The downselect is expected to eliminate two or three of the six initial candidates, but nothing is definite.

Vendors, who were supposed to have their evaluations completed last April have already been required to extend or revise their bids until next April because the initial selection process bogged down. If the defense ministry is not able to complete its downselect process by then, vendors will have to resubmit their bids and another year’s delay will ensue.

That raises the prospect that volatile financial markets might cause swings in currency rates that could change the value of the range of highest to lowest bidders significantly, given that rates are determined not when bids are received but when the commercial evaluation begins.

The holdup centers on terms for technology transfer, which must be completed with the main contract, a defense official explained. India requires that licensed production of the aircraft—including engines, accessories, radars, systems and tooling—be covered by the tech-transfer proposal. The ministry holds refusal rights on any specific item, and suppliers must provide full life-cycle product support.

Vivek Lall, vice president of Boeing India, views the process positively, citing “greater opportunities for the Indian defense industry to work with partnerships, or in collaboration with foreign companies that will likely continue to supply [the industry with] defense armaments and transfer of technology.”

But analyst V. Siddhartha of the Center for Air Power Studies in New Delhi has reservations. “There is no guarantee that the technology you get will not be state-controlled,” he says.

Former Air Chief S.P. Tyagi says that opening up the market to foreign direct investment will be good for India. The current limit is just 26%. But that level is too small to give foreign investors a meaningful say in board decisions, he says.

India sees everything from microtechnology and materials to prototype production emerging from MMRCA’s tech transfers. Air Vice Marshal M. Matheswaran, the assistant chief of the air staff, says the country can leverage MMRCA “to get what we want” and persuade vendors to “part with technology.”

Additionally, India’s domestic defense sector is favored by “buy local” and taxation arrangements. It also will likely require foreign firms to provide inputs into both platform and systems development, says Lall.

Contract Talks Moving Slowly On MMRCA | AVIATION WEEK


Once again a confirmation that MMRCA is not about a cost-effective stop gap, or simple Mig 21 replacement anymore, but about as much ToT and industrial benefits as well. Also, the competition is not in the final stage, because of the delays and the vendors have to offer new comercial bids. Only when that is done, we will see a short listing and then will enter the final stage!

[luckyyy]

India requires that licensed production of the aircraft—including engines, accessories, radars, systems and tooling
India sees everything from microtechnology and materials

“Given the circumstances, we require a fifth generation fighter. Only they [the Russians] were ready to give us the technology.”
The Hindu : States / Kerala : Indigenisation in focus: Antony

[luckyyy]

Once again a confirmation that MMRCA is not about a cost-effective stop gap, or simple Mig 21 replacement anymore, but about as much ToT and industrial benefits as well. Also, the competition is not in the final stage, because of the delays and the vendors have to offer new comercial bids. Only when that is done, we will see a short listing and then will enter the final stage!

even if there be three finalists , both eurofighter and rafale will going to loose the cost bid against the third one...

[angeldemon_007]

but this helmet will only work in within visual range situations.

Yeah, remember for that we have radars.

even if there be three finalists , both eurofighter and rafale will going to loose the cost bid against the third one...

But still eurofighter might win because there is no doubt its one of the best machine and also the political advantage. Apart from this they are ready to transfer the production unit of few critical products from germany to India and not just for this project but also for the future project that eurofighter consortium will get. Also they are offering us an unofficial 5th member of the consortium(although i don't know what will be our role). EADS is also offering us to help bridge the gap between military and civil aviation. All these will help us to get a lot of money back.
But i don't know what will be the govt. decision.

@ sancho
I have also raised a couple of time the question regarding the price per unit of every aircraft that is offered to India, guess what, there were many answer and so i decided to forget this question.
Also Rafale can not possibly be cheaper than gripen, because its project cost has already escalated a lot and also the French govt. is not able to secure any deal for this aircraft.
I think if France offers us something lucrative(like some other tech or help in designing something futuristic or some political help) apart from this behind the scene, so that we would change our mind, then their might be a possibility to purchase Rafale. I am saying this because France is desperate in getting some order for there Rafale project for its survivability.

[SpArK]

Boeing 2010 deliveries incl. record 376 737s; 50 F/A-18 & EA-18s; Quite impressive record of swift deliveries.. one thing i admire about Boeing.

Boeing Reports Fourth-Quarter Deliveries - Jan 6, 2011

[sancho]

“Given the circumstances, we require a fifth generation fighter. Only they [the Russians] were ready to give us the technology.”
The Hindu : States / Kerala : Indigenisation in focus: Antony

Fifth gen techs = stealth techs, that apart from Russians, only the US could provide, but they don't even share it with close partners like UK, so that should tell you why we went with Russia and Pak Fa.
However, that has nothing to do with MMRCA, because no stealth fighter is offered in the competition, but instead we could get ToT of other systems that are important for 5. gen fighters as well. AESA radar, NG EWS, avionics, other weapons..., things where the Russians lack behind and we could integrate into FGFA.

even if there be three finalists , both eurofighter and rafale will going to loose the cost bid against the third one...

Not neccesarily, because L1 does not mean lowest price per unit, but lowest price for the package that we require, which also include ToT, source codes restrictions...
An F18SH is said to cost $55 million flyaway, Rafale around $80 millions, EF over $100 millions, but the F18SH can't offer the same ToT, radar source codes and offer way more restrictions. That makes Rafale and EF more suiting to those requirements and MoD could take the L1 from them.

[sancho]

@ sancho
I have also raised a couple of time the question regarding the price per unit of every aircraft that is offered to India, guess what, there were many answer and so i decided to forget this question.
Also Rafale can not possibly be cheaper than gripen, because its project cost has already escalated a lot and also the French govt. is not able to secure any deal for this aircraft.
I think if France offers us something lucrative(like some other tech or help in designing something futuristic or some political help) apart from this behind the scene, so that we would change our mind, then their might be a possibility to purchase Rafale. I am saying this because France is desperate in getting some order for there Rafale project for its survivability.

First of all, the costs for Rafale development didn't escalated, the problem is that it is complete French/European, which means the production, development, spare and weapon costs are all in Euro which increases the costs compared to US fighters for example. Saab and Gripen used the advantage of cheaper US parts and weapons, to reduce the costs, let alone that it is hardly in the same class as the other MMRCAs. That's why I said, it's doubtful that a Gripen would be costlier in fly away than a Rafale, which luckyyys source said.
Actually I don't think the French are as desperate as the EF partners, or Saab, simply they have way bigger chances to get exports at the moment then the others.
Dassault is participating in competitions at the moment in:


Brazil - 36 to 100 fighters (front runner, because of strategic partnership, main competitor is the Gripen)
India - 126 to 240 fighters (most suited for the forces)
UAE - 60 fighters (no competition, but depending on side deals)
Lybia - 14 to 36 fighters (deal was in trouble, because France refused to sell Scalp cruise missiles, but now is said to be fixed and awaiting final signature)
Swiss - 22 fighters (deal is postponed, but according reports from the evaluation, Rafale was leading, competitiors are EF and Gripen)
Kuwait - 24 fighters (they are interested in non US fighters, but it's unsure if they fall to US pressure again)
Qatar - 24 to 36 fighters to replace M2Ks, Rafale would be the logical choice, but they want even latest stealth fighters like F35, but it's doubtfull they would get them)

The EF has Swiss and India, possibly will enter Qatar too (was not shortlisted in Brasil) and the deal with Oman will not be a new order, but diverted from the UK.
Saab has only Thailand and South Africa as export customers, the others just leased fighters from the Swedish order and if no new order comes in, the production line could be closed soon. The NG is participating in India, Brazil and Swiss, but with the lack of political power, it can't win such competitions and has to hope for smaller countries.

As you can see, especially in the Gulf region and Brazil, Dassault has very good chances for exports in the next 2 to 3 years, but their main opponents are always the US contenders and that's what I expect in India as well.

Boeing 2010 deliveries incl. record 376 737s; 50 F/A-18 & EA-18s; Quite impressive record of swift deliveries.. one thing i admire about Boeing.

Boeing Reports Fourth-Quarter Deliveries - Jan 6, 2011

True, they are not worlds leading aerospace company for nothing and if it was up to them, they would even offer more ToT... like the Europeans do, but they suffer (and gain on the other side) from US politics and restrictions.

[RadyLeo]

Brazil looks more and more doubtful for Rafale as Lula is gone and the new
"el presidente" Madamme Rouseff is reportedly kissing up to USA, to make up for the lost ground in Lula snubbing the big brother.

Through Rafale is a good machine, no two ways about it. But as long as the congress is in power and SG and MMS are running the show, it will be F18 all the way.

And do you know what is going to happen, MOD will declare Boeing as the L1 in the bidding. Just like the Jet engine deal. That will put a stop to all future questions.

"just my two paisa"

[HongWu]

Through Rafale is a good machine, no two ways about it. But as long as the congress is in power and SG and MMS are running the show, it will be F18 all the way.

And do you know what is going to happen, MOD will declare Boeing as the L1 in the bidding. Just like the Jet engine deal. That will put a stop to all future questions.

"just my two paisa"

Bingo..... politics is the main factor here. Otherwise, this competition would have been over a long time ago.

MMS will try to get F-35 cooperation too I think for naval fighter.

[GORKHALI]

Rafale weapon option chart-




DEDICATED TO ALL RAFALE LOVERS

[angeldemon_007]

@ sancho

First of all, the costs for Rafale development didn't escalated, the problem is that it is complete French/European, which means the production, development, spare and weapon costs are all in Euro

I am not saying development cost has escalated. I said the development cost of the whole project was actually too much (€39.6 billion) than expected, the french thought to continue as they can recover by sale but no single rafale is being sold till now. This is one of the main reason why they cannot decrease their cost per unit (hey i m not saying this, i read some article on economic times).

Brazil - 36 to 100 fighters (front runner, because of strategic partnership, main competitor is the Gripen)
India - 126 to 240 fighters (most suited for the forces)
UAE - 60 fighters (no competition, but depending on side deals)
Lybia - 14 to 36 fighters (deal was in trouble, because France refused to sell Scalp cruise missiles, but now is said to be fixed and awaiting final signature)
Swiss - 22 fighters (deal is postponed, but according reports from the evaluation, Rafale was leading, competitiors are EF and Gripen)
Kuwait - 24 fighters (they are interested in non US fighters, but it's unsure if they fall to US pressure again)
Qatar - 24 to 36 fighters to replace M2Ks, Rafale would be the logical choice, but they want even latest stealth fighters like F35, but it's doubtfull they would get them)

Dude, these are the deals in which they are competing, they have not won them and even bad news are coming from some places. French cannot afford to sit down and wait year after year if they want to continue their assembly line.

They have to win some projects or they might have to shut down assembly line in a couple of years. You cannot run a company for years without any sales and that too when you have invested so much.

Also the numbers are a bit wrong, India is clear with 126 fighters and even Brazil is going with only 36 fighters. There are no indications that both the deals might increase in numbers.

Eurofighter
On the other hand Eurofighter has 707 aircrafts ordered by 6 nations including 4 partners. The project cost is also less as compared to French and it is shared between 4 partners that is what making French a bit more desperate.

Gripen
The aircraft is in service with the Swedish Air Force, the Czech Air Force, the Hungarian Air Force and the South African Air Force, and has been ordered by the Royal Thai Air Force. A total of 236 Gripens have been ordered as of 2008.

But for the record, if india selects rafale it would be really good for IAF as it is a nice fighter. But i am not sure how much we will benefit from this deal. Eurofighter appears to me as a much better deal.

[jack220]

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What are the exact specification of tejas