MRCA News & Discussions

[sathya]

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i am just worried what will happen to LCA 3 engine program.

snecma - kaveri deal, will it go through , or EF 200 will quip or more f 414 gonna continue

[Jon Snow]

Maintaining air-superiority would be the key in future war,ground attack can be taken care of by our strong army and yet to be inducted attack-helis in large numbers.Once we are done with enemy's air force even our mig-21s can carry on with ground attacks.

Actually to achieve air superiority You need to have decent ground attack capabilities - First and foremost there will be SEAD missions, taking out radar installations, SAM batteries and even handheld Stingers can cause a lot of damage. Also air superiority is not achieved by taking out each and every fighter the enemy has - It is achieved by taking out airbases and destroying runways and taking out fighters while they are on the ground. Ground attack is extremely vital for air superiority....
though I say all this I still support the EFT because I believe that with Indian money all their projects which are on backburner will continue and we will recieve the tranch 3b - which will have potent ground attack capabilities and Indian scientists will learn a lot from this experience( they will participate because India will become a member of the consortium).

[Dreamreaper]

? coz Pak might think about buying rafale but not EFT

Pakistan cant afford any of them,and doesn't need to,as Chinese versions are equally capable at much lower price and no fear of embargoes.

[syntax_error]

Even if EFT has the lower cost right now....
the final haggling is still left.I'm sure MOD will it with both parties (EFT and RAFALE) and try to lower prices down further.

So we never know what might happen then ... so I dont think there will be any announcement right now .. maybe end of month.... after all the bargaining is over ...

[syntax_error]

Even if EFT has the lower cost right now....
the final haggling is still left.I'm sure MOD will it with both parties (EFT and RAFALE) and try to lower prices down further.

So we never know what might happen then ... so I dont think there will be any announcement right now .. maybe end of month.... after all the bargaining is over ...

I had posted this in MRCA thread but its more relevant here...

[ILLUMINATO]

i am just worried what will happen to LCA 3 engine program.

snecma - kaveri deal, will it go through , or EF 200 will quip or more f 414 gonna continue

I wish snecma - kaveri deal goes through,we should not allow Kaveri development to be killed after so much delay and additional expenses incurred due to that.

[Dreamreaper]

Even if EFT has the lower cost right now....
the final haggling is still left.I'm sure MOD will it with both parties (EFT and RAFALE) and try to lower prices down further.

So we never know what might happen then ... so I dont think there will be any announcement right now .. maybe end of month.... after all the bargaining is over ...

I had posted this in MRCA thread but its more relevant here...

Haggling?

Is this a defence deal or Garage sale?

[sathya]

Pakistan cant afford any of them,and doesn't need to,as Chinese versions are equally capable at much lower price and no fear of embargoes.

so you trust on chinese baskets wholly.. um?

[Jon Snow]

I dont think we have MKIs as a very good air superiority fighter. I mean it is but it has serious problems regarding radar sign. So its better we go for EFT. We can always use Mirage for ground attacks

So a fighter cant be a good Air superiority fighter if it has high RCS?? Better tell the Americans - they have been wasting their money on the F 15s.
On a serious note - the RCS of MKI is not a handicap - yes the enemy fighters will see it coming from far but with the MKI's radar it will see them as well and with the huge payload and longer ranged missile it will fire first - also the MKI has serious ECM capabilities , It will most probably jam any incoming missile - even in the red flag video the guy states that they engaged guns because the MKI was jamming the missiles - and these were modern F 16s and F 15s.
Also we are upgrading the MKIs from this year onward and will reduce the RCS to a more manageable 3-5m2.
As far as EFT or Rafale are concerned - they are not stealth fighters - load em up and their RCS will shoot up to atleast 1-2m2 if not more(probably more I'm thinking)

[sathya]

I wish snecma - kaveri deal goes through,we should not allow Kaveri development to be killed after so much delay and additional expenses incurred due to that.

mate even that deal is not yet a done deal... still in discussion..
whichever does the best for our engine tech should be selected fast and now..

[Jon Snow]

Even if EFT has the lower cost right now....
the final haggling is still left.I'm sure MOD will it with both parties (EFT and RAFALE) and try to lower prices down further.

So we never know what might happen then ... so I dont think there will be any announcement right now .. maybe end of month.... after all the bargaining is over ...

Thats not how it works - we chose L1 now and then price negotiations take place with the L1 only - otherwise whats the point of finding the L1 now - decide which one it is after all negotiations

[ILLUMINATO]

Actually to achieve air superiority You need to have decent ground attack capabilities - First and foremost there will be SEAD missions, taking out radar installations, SAM batteries and even handheld Stingers can cause a lot of damage. Also air superiority is not achieved by taking out each and every fighter the enemy has - It is achieved by taking out airbases and destroying runways and taking out fighters while they are on the ground. Ground attack is extremely vital for air superiority....
though I say all this I still support the EFT because I believe that with Indian money all their projects which are on backburner will continue and we will recieve the tranch 3b - which will have potent ground attack capabilities and Indian scientists will learn a lot from this experience( they will participate because India will become a member of the consortium).

Are EFs so impotent that can't even suppress their air-defence ?I won't agree to that no way.No doubt ground attack may be their weak point,but to that extent??

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

Actually to achieve air superiority You need to have decent ground attack capabilities - First and foremost there will be SEAD missions, taking out radar installations, SAM batteries and even handheld Stingers can cause a lot of damage. Also air superiority is not achieved by taking out each and every fighter the enemy has - It is achieved by taking out airbases and destroying runways and taking out fighters while they are on the ground. Ground attack is extremely vital for air superiority....
though I say all this I still support the EFT because I believe that with Indian money all their projects which are on backburner will continue and we will recieve the tranch 3b - which will have potent ground attack capabilities and Indian scientists will learn a lot from this experience( they will participate because India will become a member of the consortium).

Are EFs so impotent that can't even suppress their air-defence ?I won't agree to that no way.No doubt ground attack may be their weak point,but to that extent??

[sathya]

su mki radar cross section wont be a disadvantage on home soil than on offense..

so for defense it packs all punch,

i doubt how rcs reduction will be achieved in super sukhoi.. ( 20 -30% my guess)

[rai_kamal]

20-30 % reduction will be insufficient..Atleast the rcs should be around 5m2 or less,otherwise su-35 would have been good offer..
By the way , happy to hear the EFT is the lowest price bidder...

[Mirza Jatt]

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really great if true....