INDIA- HELICOPTER Competitions::News and Discussions

[sancho]

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Yes reliable because the helo is on the ground most of the time so there is very little risk of crashs. And if India sighns this deal we have no idea when it will be delivered. Look at Mil-17VI deal, was supposed to be delivered early 2011, it is now lat August and still NO SIGN!! You can have the best helos in the world but if you deliver constanly late than what's the point? India doesn't need this headache anymore and can afford much better equipment from much more reliable partners.

The operational history says something else isn't it ? And again, it seems that IAF has is confident that the Russians will supply the Mi 171 in time, otherwise they wouldn't order additional 59 of them, or even upgrade the available once with new avionics, because if they wouldn't be happy with it, they could have gone with AW 101s, that will be procured for IAF VIP fleet as well. However the fact is, IAF is indeed happy with the performance of Russian helicopters, especially in the different climate conditions in India, just like IN seems to be happy with the Kamov helicopters. When spare supply is secured, the Mil helicopters are cheap, reliable, rugged and in the heavy lift area, there is simply no real match for the Mi 26, except of the CH 53 maybe, which isn't in the competition anymore. Btw, for India there is no other partner that is more reliable than Russia!

[sancho]

Again from the Maks air show:

MAKS – New models Mi-34C1, Ka-226T, Mi-38, and Mi-26T2 showcased


...The experimental Mi-26T2 will be among the innovations presented at the Russian Helicopters exposition. It is currently continuing test flights. The helicopter is fitted with a modern BREO-26 avionics suite designed by Ramenskoye Design Company. The glass cockpit of the Mi-26 T2 is equipped with five multi-functional LCDs that can display a coloured image of external load, a new digital autopilot and a new navigation system supporting NAVSTAR/GLONASS. The helicopter is also fitted with an additional Tranzas TSL-1600 light to visually control external load at night. It is capable both of standard and IR lighting to be used in combination with night vision goggles. Apart from this, modernised D-136-2 engines are intended for this machine. They are a step forward from the D-136 in their use of FADEC, an emergency power output of 12500 hp available at temperatures up to +30ºС, and takeoff power that has been increased by 250 hp at maximum takeoff mode.

The new avionics allow the operation of this helicopter in any point on the planet and let it perform flights to international IFR standards. Modern equipment has brought down the total crew headcount to 2 from 5, adding an operator to work with the external sling if necessary. The remaining cabin space has been given to people accompanying load.

MAKS – New models Mi-34C1, Ka-226T, Mi-38, and Mi-26T2 showcased | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source

[Abingdonboy]

The operational history says something else isn't it ? And again, it seems that IAF has is confident that the Russians will supply the Mi 171 in time, otherwise they wouldn't order additional 59 of them, or even upgrade the available once with new avionics, because if they wouldn't be happy with it, they could have gone with AW 101s, that will be procured for IAF VIP fleet as well. However the fact is, IAF is indeed happy with the performance of Russian helicopters, especially in the different climate conditions in India, just like IN seems to be happy with the Kamov helicopters. When spare supply is secured, the Mil helicopters are cheap, reliable, rugged and in the heavy lift area, there is simply no real match for the Mi 26, except of the CH 53 maybe, which isn't in the competition anymore. Btw, for India there is no other partner that is more reliable than Russia!

I believe that uptil recently Russian kit was all India could afford but as we have seen in the last 4-5 years, now India has the cash they are buying mostly western kit. And that is for a reason over the years Russia has managed to pi$$ off just about every department in the GoI- MoD/CAG/FM/IA/IN/IN because of delays, lack of avalibilty of spares, late delivery etc. So really Russia is a declining presence on the Indian defence Market- and they know it. The Mil-17V is likely to be the last Russian helo India buys (the Fenec A550 is likely to win LUH, Apache is going to win the Attack helo and I believe the CH-47F will win HLH) as in the future it will either be indigenous helos like ALH and IMRH or Western buys like AW-101 and BlackHawk has been offered to IAF (bit I don't know how far this will go). Same story for the IN, the Kamov-31 was the only AEW helo platform available to IN back in 1990s and is the ONLY Russian origin Helo in IN inventory and this is not likely to change as the SH-60R is offered to IN and in the AEW role the Kamov's replacement is already being sought after V-22 AEW maybe for STOBAR ACC and E-2D for CATOBAR.

[sancho]

I believe that uptil recently Russian kit was all India could afford but as we have seen in the last 4-5 years, now India has the cash they are buying mostly western kit. And that is for a reason over the years Russia has managed to pi$$ off just about every department in the GoI- MoD/CAG/FM/IA/IN/IN because of delays, lack of avalibilty of spares, late delivery etc. So really Russia is a declining presence on the Indian defence Market- and they know it. The Mil-17V is likely to be the last Russian helo India buys (the Fenec A550 is likely to win LUH, Apache is going to win the Attack helo and I believe the CH-47F will win HLH) as in the future it will either be indigenous helos like ALH and IMRH or Western buys like AW-101 and BlackHawk has been offered to IAF (bit I don't know how far this will go). Same story for the IN, the Kamov-31 was the only AEW helo platform available to IN back in 1990s and is the ONLY Russian origin Helo in IN inventory and this is not likely to change as the SH-60R is offered to IN and in the AEW role the Kamov's replacement is already being sought after V-22 AEW maybe for STOBAR ACC and E-2D for CATOBAR.

That's not true, we had the money and offers of European helicopters in the past as well and a big part of the helicopter fleet of IAF and IN war French, or UK/US origin (IN has more western helicopters than Russian and we bought new Russian AEW helicopters now for the Gorshkov and IAC 1), so the one has nothing to do with the other. The Mi 8/17 series was not only cheap, but was a good and reliable helicopter, from a sanctionproof source, that's why IAF still likes it and why they as I said early still want to procure more of them (the deal for 80 was in 2008, the deal for 59 is even new). You simply can't deny the fact that we have very good experience with this helicopter and say we have to buy something else now, only because we have more money and the same goes for the Mi 26. If the spare issues can be solved, there is no reason to go for the Chinooks and I also don't think that we will simply buy new Russian helicopters in future, but neither wester helicopters, because the indigenous helicopter field is one of our best and is improving even further. However, I wouldn't rule out co-devlopments with Russia, which they already are offering, because that can be a win win situation for both countries.

[Dash]

That's not true, we had the money and offers of European helicopters in the past as well and a big part of the helicopter fleet of IAF and IN war French, or UK/US origin (IN has more western helicopters than Russian and we bought new Russian AEW helicopters now for the Gorshkov and IAC 1), so the one has nothing to do with the other. The Mi 8/17 series was not only cheap, but was a good and reliable helicopter, from a sanctionproof source, that's why IAF still likes it and why they as I said early still want to procure more of them (the deal for 80 was in 2008, the deal for 59 is even new). You simply can't deny the fact that we have very good experience with this helicopter and say we have to buy something else now, only because we have more money and the same goes for the Mi 26. If the spare issues can be solved, there is no reason to go for the Chinooks and I also don't think that we will simply buy new Russian helicopters in future, but neither wester helicopters, because the indigenous helicopter field is one of our best and is improving even further. However, I wouldn't rule out co-devlopments with Russia, which they already are offering, because that can be a win win situation for both countries.

I think after the opening of a global service centre for Russian aircrafts in India, there wont be any issue for spares and servicing..

[Abingdonboy]

I think after the opening of a global service centre for Russian aircrafts in India, there wont be any issue for spares and servicing..

When did this/will this happen? As if you go onto the IAF's website you will see a LONG list of GLOBAL tenders for supply of spares for Russian equipment.

[sancho]

In the near future in India, the Winners of three helicopter tender

MOSCOW, October 5. (ARMS-TASS). In India, currently implementing a number of tenders to replace the existing fleet of helicopters. Soon the three of them will be the winners, according to the weekly "Aviation Week and Space Technology."

The three tender worth $ 2.5 billion for the purchase include the Indian Air Force 22 percussion, 12 heavy vehicles and 197 light utility helicopters...

...Officials familiar with the course of the tender for attack helicopters, note that, following the end of 2010 tests, which included training of helicopter shooting weapons, the AH-64D "Apache" is more liked by the Indian Air Force than the Mi-28N " Night Hunter. Tests were conducted both outsite and in the producing country. An officer of the Western Air Command in New Delhi said that the tests on both machines worked perfectly, but at the same time, the superiority of American systems in such key features as the increased capability and all-weather use, it was obvious.

The contract to supply 22 helicopters in the long term plan to extend to 44 or more machines. Initially envisaged to expand the park, and then replace the aging attack helicopters Mi-25 and Mi-35 Russian-made...

Google Übersetzer

[sancho]

AVX Wins JMR Helo Study Contract

AVX Aircraft, a small Texas company staffed largely by former Bell engineers, has won a U.S. Army contract to study a potential replacement for the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk utility helicopter....

AVX Wins JMR Helo Study Contract | AVIATION WEEK

Excellent, that's the same concept I want to see us co-developing with the Russians, based on the Kamov Ka 92:




Two pusher rotors instead of one and a rear ramp, but otherwise it would be a great replacement for all the medium range helicopters in IAF and IA (Mi 8, Mi 17, Sea King), with more speed and range than current gen helicopters. Another advantage is the coax rotor design and the lack of a tail rotor, which reduces the size and makes it more useful for naval operations, be it on an LPD/LHD, or even for Frigats, Destroyers or ICG patrol vessels.

[Dash]

When did this/will this happen? As if you go onto the IAF's website you will see a LONG list of GLOBAL tenders for supply of spares for Russian equipment.

I dont know about Global tender for Russian parts, but this project has already started and after sometime you will see Russian service centre in India.

[sancho]

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Nice article about the LUH competition and HALs LUH development in the new Sp's Aviation magazin:

Helicopters - Twin Tracking

By Air Marshal (Retd) V.K. Bhatia


While both parties are rooting for their respective products, ultimately L1 could emerge as the decisive factor for the final selection. The good news is that many-faceted parameters such as reliability, availability, maintainability and life-cycle costs are included while determining the L1...

Helicopters - Twin Tracking - SP's Aviation


Full article here:

SP's Aviation May 2012 e-Magazine - SP's Aviation