Iran and Israel, archenemies or potential friends?

[Developereo]

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There's no need to guess about Israel: its behavior towards other countries can be judged by its own history. The combination of an overworked persecution complex combined with the manifest destiny of being God's Chosen People makes them feel above normal rules of conduct.

Israel directly attacked its own best benefactor, the US, and killed their soldiers in the USS Liberty.

It used to be friends with Iran, but is now the biggest cheerleader of bombing Iran.

Despite decades of friendship with Turkey, it is now actively campaigning against Turkey and helping Greece with the Cyprus conflict. Its lobbies are promoting the Armenian genocide propaganda in Western countries.

When Israel decides that a country's usefulness to it has ended, or is surpassed by another country, it will turn on them in a minute. When regional power blocks in the Middle East (Iran, Turkey, GCC) fight each other, Israel will eagerly jump from one to another to suit its own interests, but only a fool would trust Israel for more than a second.

Iran's future would be better served by ironing out differences with Turkey and, eventually, the GCC rather than trying to appease Israel.

[Surenas]

He had plans to rule over Iran like Iran was Switzerland, but he didn't know that Iran was a very different country.

Don't think this was the case. Shah was quite aware of the fact that Iran was not like Switzerland. He is famous for his quote where he stated that 'when Iranians learn to behave like Swedes, I will behave like the King of Sweden.' He made some strategic faults (the 2500 year old celebration at Persepolis is one of them), but he had started with some fundamental changes on Iran's policy. But it was just too late.

We could discuss this further, but there were many reasons that justify Khomeini's decision if you ask me.

But history proved he was wrong doing so. Hundred of thousands of Iranians died for nothing, but only because Khomeini had some wild dreams to conquer Karbala and Najaf.

[PteX]

There's no need to guess about Israel: its behavior towards other countries can be judged by its own history. The combination of an overworked persecution complex combined with the manifest destiny of being God's Chosen People makes them feel above normal rules of conduct.

Israel directly attacked its own best benefactor, the US, and killed their soldiers in the USS Liberty.

It used to be friends with Iran, but is now the biggest cheerleader of bombing Iran.

Despite decades of friendship with Turkey, it is now actively campaigning against Turkey and helping Greece with the Cyprus conflict. Its lobbies are promoting the Armenian genocide propaganda in Western countries.

When Israel decides that a country's usefulness to it has ended, or is surpassed by another country, it will turn on them in a minute. When regional power blocks in the Middle East (Iran, Turkey, GCC) fight each other, Israel will eagerly jump from one to another to suit its own interests, but only a fool would trust Israel for more than a second.

Iran's future would be better served by ironing out differences with Turkey and, eventually, the GCC rather than trying to appease Israel.

The amount of propaganda in one post... Tsk, tsk.

[Era_923]

There's no need to guess about Israel: its behavior towards other countries can be judged by its own history. The combination of an overworked persecution complex combined with the manifest destiny of being God's Chosen People makes them feel above normal rules of conduct.

Israel directly attacked its own best benefactor, the US, and killed their soldiers in the USS Liberty.

It used to be friends with Iran, but is now the biggest cheerleader of bombing Iran.

Despite decades of friendship with Turkey, it is now actively campaigning against Turkey and helping Greece with the Cyprus conflict. Its lobbies are promoting the Armenian genocide propaganda in Western countries.

When Israel decides that a country's usefulness to it has ended, or is surpassed by another country, it will turn on them in a minute. When regional power blocks in the Middle East (Iran, Turkey, GCC) fight each other, Israel will eagerly jump from one to another to suit its own interests, but only a fool would trust Israel for more than a second.

Iran's future would be better served by ironing out differences with Turkey and, eventually, the GCC rather than trying to appease Israel.

Yes it would be better if we were friends with PGCC countries.But the problem is,they hate us,from bottom of their b**t.They have ideological and racial problems with Iran,not political ones.

[Surenas]

It used to be friends with Iran, but is now the biggest cheerleader of bombing Iran.

Change of circumstances. Not because of they don't want to see a nuclear Iran, but because they really believe a nuclear Iran is a existential threat to their country. And I don't want to argue whether they are right about that or not. But you have to understand that Israel even supported Iran (during the shah) when we began building nuclear plants. I think Israel could life eventually with a nuclear Iran if we would be allies. You don't seem to understand that Iran and Turkey/GCC never could be really allies. We all fight for the same price: dominate the Middle East. Our interests are contra dictional.

[Developereo]

The amount of propaganda in one post... Tsk, tsk.

Which part is wrong?

Didn't Israel attack the USS Liberty, killing 40+ US navy personnel?
Isn't Israel at the forefront of warmongering on Iran and killing Iranian scientists?
Isn't Israel actively helping Greece with economic projects in Cyprus?
Didn't the Armenian genocide propaganda in Europe and the US gain steam the same time that Israel's relations with Turkey dipped?

Change of circumstances. Not because of they don't want to see a nuclear Iran, but because they really believe a nuclear Iran is a existential threat to their country. And I don't want to argue whether they are right about that or not. But you have to understand that Israel even supported Iran (during the shah) when we began building nuclear pants. I think Israel could life eventually with a nuclear Iran if we would be allies.

In the past Israel was helping Iran against the Arabs and Turks, not because it gave a damn about Iran but simply to increase the tension in the region. Israel does NOT want to see a nuclear Iran because that would start to challenge its own dominance of the region.

When the major powers in the region fight each other, Israel helps because it benefits either way. Israel is America's aircraft carrier in the Middle East.

[clmeta]

Don't troll please.

Any Muslim befriending Israel will go against Koran an the Sunna, they both advise the Muslims against the Jews and the Christian hypocrites.

[Surenas]

In the past Israel was helping Iran against the Arabs and Turks, not because it gave a damn about Iran but simply to increase the tension in the region. Israel does NOT want to see a nuclear Iran because that would start to challenge its own dominance of the region.

No, Israel helped us because we share the same interests. Israel knows that a nuclear Iran eventually is inevitable and they could life with it, if both countries simply have better a relationship with each other.

[Arian]

Don't think this was the case. Shah was quite aware of the fact that Iran was not like Switzerland. He is famous for his quote where he stated that 'when Iranians learn to behave like Swedes, I will behave like the King of Sweden.' He made some strategic faults (the 2500 year old celebration at Persepolis is one of them), but he had started with some fundamental changes on Iran's policy. But it was just too late.

Yea, but still he tried to ignore the amount of influence that religious hard liners had over Iran. He thought of Iran as a modern society, while, on the contrary, Iran was a backward society at that time.

But history proved he was wrong doing so. Hundred of thousands of Iranians died for nothing, but only because Khomeini had some wild dreams to conquer Karbala and Najaf.

No, history didn't prove him wrong. We didn't lose land to Iraq, and after a century that we were losing our wars one after the other one, we didn't lose the Iraq-Iran war.
History would've judged him much worse if we had lost lands to Iraq. They don't blame you in history for the soldiers being killed in a bloody war, but they do blame you if you lose a war.

[clmeta]

What is PGCC?
Btw I think Iran Israel rivalry is not permanent. The two permanent rivalries in ME is Iran-Arab and Israel-Arab.

Yes it would be better if we were friends with PGCC countries.But the problem is,they hate us,from bottom of their b**t.They have ideological and racial problems with Iran,not political ones.

[kollang]

surena
so you are saying we should give up our nuclear program.because its not zionists intrest?

What is PGCC?
Btw I think Iran Israel rivalry is not permanent. The two permanent rivalries in ME is Iran-Arab and Israel-Arab.

Persian gulf countries

[Surenas]

Yea, but still he tried to ignore the amount of influence that religious hard liners had over Iran. He thought of Iran as a modern society, while, on the contrary, Iran was a backward society at that time.

Yes, and that was the fault of his father. His father had a good relationship with Ataturk, but when Ataturk took the power of the mullahs away in his country the Shah preferred the more soft approach. The biggest mistake he'd made.

No, history didn't prove him wrong. We didn't lose land to Iraq, and after a century that we were losing our wars one after the other one, we didn't lose the Iraq-Iran war.
History would've judged him much worse if we had lost lands to Iraq. They don't blame you in history for the soldiers being killed in a bloody war, but they do blame you if you lose a war.

In my opinion we already had won the war when we had liberated Khorramshahr and pushed the Iraqi troops back to their borders. He could end the war just after that, but he didn't. I think it was wrong.

surena
so you are saying we should give up our nuclear program.because its not zionists intrest?

No, I think we should:

1) Recognize Israel
2) Stop supporting Hamas and Islamic Jihad
3) Keep pursuing our nuclear program

[clmeta]

Israel's as well as America's interest is to maintain balance of power in the gulf. They will always undermine whichever party gets stronger.
If Arabs become a potent force in future then Israel and Iran might collaborate behind the curtains. Just as Israel is collaborating with some Gulf countries behind the curtains to check Iran.

surena
so you are saying we should give up our nuclear program.because its not zionists intrest?


Persian gulf countries

[Arian]

We even didn't lose the war after liberating Khorramshahr and pushing the Iraqi troops back to their borders. He could end the war just after that, but he didn't. I think it was wrong.

We had. We still had several kilometers of our land occupied by the Iraqi forces that were of significant strategic importance to us. If you read what I said earlier again I had explained why ending the war wasn't a good option.

No, I think we should:

1) Recognize Israel
2) Stop supporting Hamas or Islamic Jihad
3) Keep pursuing our nuclear program

1) Agreed.
2) No need to do that. We should have some levers against Israel. They excel at playing dirty games as well. We shouldn't support Hamas, but we should always keep Hizbullah right beside their ears so they know that we'll bear no ill will from them.
3) Indeed.

[kollang]

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surena what you are saying is impossible.they should first recognize palestine.