JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Arsalan]

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tempest dosent this brousher quotes the same old specs whereas we have heared from sir. muradK that the one we will be getting in first blk is something improved!!

regards!

[nightrider_saulat]

can we compare this radar with IAF's radars in mig-29,mirage 2000 and su-30mki

[Arsalan]

perhaps no, not yet!!

[Tempest II]

tempest dosent this brousher quotes the same old specs whereas we have heared from sir. muradK that the one we will be getting in first blk is something improved!!

regards!

You are correct arsalanaslam123 ... ... so I would take that as a minimum knowing the actual radar exceeds what is on the brichure.

[Tempest II]

can we compare this radar with IAF's radars in mig-29,mirage 2000 and su-30mki

What we have heard from Janes and other sources is that it is derived from the Mig-29s Zhuk-M radar. If you look at the specifications below and the KLJ-7 (above) they don't look very different. We know the JF-17 take a 600mm - 660mm antenna. Check even the weight - the KLJ-7 is 60kg lighter - if there is any loss in performance (like range), the fact that it is lighter could be part of the reason.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_293.shtml

General data of Zhuk-M
Frequency range: 8-12.5 GHz
Detection range: 120 km (forward hemisphere, 5 m² RCS target)
Targets: up to 4 (tracked); 10 (detected)
Angular coverage: -40º/+55º (elevation); ± 85º (azimuth)
Weight: 180 kg

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-01879/

IANS reported in December 2006 that India was “finalizing” a proposal to have its fleet of MiG-29 lightweight fighters refurbished for $888 million by the Russian company RSK-MiG, ... ... The planes will be fitted with upgraded weapons and a new avionics suite, including the Phazatron Zhuk-M radar.

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...ederation.html

Zhemchug was the designation of a radar system developed from the Zhuk-M by Phazotron for the Chinese J-10 and FC-1 light fighter aircraft, incorporating some Chinese sourced elements.

[PakShaheen79]

Range of radar is 100 KM + for targets with RCS=>5 Sq. meter. What would be its range w.r.t targets with RCS=>3 Sq. meter. I think it must be around 70-80 KM max or may be lower than that? Any proper link for it.

[MZUBAIR]

taimikhan & MZUBAIR
Thanks both of you,
By the way how much time will take PAF to adopt JF-17 for operation purpose ?

JF-17 would be in operation in late 2009 or begenning 2010.

[MZUBAIR]

can we compare this radar with IAF's radars in mig-29,mirage 2000 and su-30mki

Mirage 2000 using RDY (Radar Doppler Multitarget)
Frequency:8 to 12 GHz
Range: 160km
Band: I/J

Mig-29 (Indian) N010M Zhuk-M

The N010M Zhuk-M is an advanced variant of the original N010 Zhuk radar introducing advanced air to surface functions like mapping and terrain following. The radar features improved signal processing and has a detection range of up to 120 km, and up to 10 targets tracked and up to 4 attacked at once in air to air mode.

The tracking range is 0.83 - 0.85 of the detection range. In air to surface mode the radar can detect a tank from up to 25 km away and a bridge from 120 km away, a naval destroyer could be detected up to 300 km away and up to two surface targets can be tracked at once.

SU-30mki using NIIP N011M Bars (Panther)

The forward facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array (PESA) radar.

The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features.
N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere.

The radar can track 20 air targets and engage eight simultaneously.

These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters.
The Su-30MKI can function as a mini-AWACS as a director or command post for other aircraft.

The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to at least four other aircraft. The radar can detect ground targets such as tanks at 40–50 km.

Nodoubt we (Pakistan) is lacking in Air force and Naval technology. KLJ-7 is not that superior.

[PakShaheen79]

100 Km range have nothing to do with Ramjet system, all it do is to give hogher thrust tus higher speed. the range is relevant to fuel that the missile carries and fuel consumption.
if you understand the basic principle it will help you. basically ramjet is a form of jet engine using the engine's forward motion to compress incoming air, without a rotary compressor. Ramjets cannot produce thrust at zero airspeed and thus cannot move an aircraft from a standstill. now as mentioned that it need to be moving at higher speed to attain maximum efficiency therefore at speeds as high as Mach 4 -5 the performance of ramjet engines is superior to turbojet but at lower speed it is out performed by the turbojets. speed is the basic identity of ramjet engine, , , not the range!!
i hope you get the point!

regards!

I was talking about speed of missile in context with speed of target at range more than 100 KMs. A missile with less than Mach 4 would find it difficult to engage its target at that kind of range and it may move away from missile.

As far principle of Ramjet I knew it very well bro, BTW thanks for explaining it but that is not total explanation as tech as moved a but further. Designers had this limitation of Ramjet in mind from begining and in 1960s it was advised to have a complementary system which can push missile in air before ramjet engine can take on .i.e. a seprate booster to launch a missile below Mach 0.5 of launching aircraft. I think UK Sea Dart is a good example of what i am trying to explain.


Guess what? Even Meteor is going to have this appraoch so is PL-21 from China so that missile can launch even if launch aircraft is at low speeds.

Turbojet out perform Ramjet in lower speeds only and only if Ramjet is only engine on board on missile no modern missile has only Ramjet engine as it requires some motion forward to intake air.

[Arsalan]

I was talking about speed of missile in context with speed of target at range more than 100 KMs. A missile with less than Mach 4 would find it difficult to engage its target at that kind of range and it may move away from missile.

As far principle of Ramjet I knew it very well bro, BTW thanks for explaining it but that is not total explanation as tech as moved a but further. Designers had this limitation of Ramjet in mind from begining and in 1960s it was advised to have a complementary system which can push missile in air before ramjet engine can take on .i.e. a seprate booster to launch a missile below Mach 0.5 of launching aircraft. I think UK Sea Dart is a good example of what i am trying to explain.


Guess what? Even Meteor is going to have this appraoch so is PL-21 from China so that missile can launch even if launch aircraft is at low speeds.

Turbojet out perform Ramjet in lower speeds only and only if Ramjet is only engine on board on missile no modern missile has only Ramjet engine as it requires some motion forward to intake air.

hmm, thanks i got it now!
thankyou,

regards!

[Arsalan]

Originally Posted by nightrider_saulat
can we compare this radar with IAF's radars in mig-29,mirage 2000 and su-30mki

actually bro there is a very important point that should be kept in mind while making such comparisons. you can either compare the specs or the performance efficiency where by performance efficiency i mean the ability to deleiver what you require!

so if you just compare the specs of cirrent radar of JF with Mig29 or mirage's radar, the JF radar is surely inferior but considering the role of JF and future upgradation programms it is quite fine.
i hope you can understand this and most of member will agree that there is no point in one to one comparison of such machines, what you have to analyze is there performance against a given opponent in given conditions!!

regards!

[PakShaheen79]

hmm, thanks i got it now!
thankyou,

regards!

I am honored and you are always welcome. Love to have some technical debated and discussion. Hope you will keep posting more like that it really help to learn more and research more about different system.

[Arsalan]

I am honored and you are always welcome. Love to have some technical debated and discussion. Hope you will keep posting more like that it really help to learn more and research more about different system.

well as stated repeatedly,,
that what we are here for friend!!

regards!

[wangrong]

J-8F carry SD-10/PL-12

[nightrider_saulat]

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J-8F carry SD-10/PL-12

which jet is a better dogfighter j-7 or j-8 or jh-7a