Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

[ANTIBODY]

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no one will answer any questions as we have done it for the past 2 years

Read my signature ---- once youve spent some days on that thread and still have questions , we will be happy to answer

[LiberalAtheist]

All of your concerns are addressed that's why Block 2 of JF17 is rolling, with Aesa radar, IRST, more composites and DFRM as Latest ECM system And redesigned frontal section to reduce RCS more and addition of one more hard point. And for your Info, Block-1 will be relieved from the active duty once the Jf-17 hits 200 mark and will be used for training purposes.

compare BLK2 when it is ready as of right now the Gripen is more capable than the JFT

[LiberalAtheist]

The current JFT blk1 is not better than SAAB JAS39.however you know 1 jas39 = 3 JFT BLK1 in the cost now

In addition, you guy know saab havent any 5 gen fighter.but china have j20 5 gen fighter.No doubt about it,SINO-PAK JFT project will benefit from J20 project too.
SINO-PAK JFT will certainly become better and better.PAC and CAC are working hard together to improve JFT ability in every part now.Time will show JFT is as good as JAS39.EVEN better.

exactly my point the JFT is cheaper you could buy 200 JFT for the price of 80-90 gripens so that adds number to your AF don't get me wrong here i'm not saying JFT is a bad fighter jet all i'm saying is that it is less capable to the Gripen

[ziaulislam]

and as for the engine newer MiG-29's use RD-33MK and the RD-33 series 3 not the RD-93 get your facts straight The thrust provided by the engine is around 49.4KN without the use of afterburners. With the afterburners, the thrust is 84.4KN. Also its worth mentioning here that this old Russian engine like its counterparts is known to have problems sustaining its afterburner for longer duration of time, which suggests that most of the time the aircraft would be flying without its afterburners on. So the important thrust specification here is the 49.4KN, which by today's standards and the weight of the aircraft is quite low. The thrust to weight ratio comes out to be 0.78 for an empty aircraft and 0.55 for a loaded aircraft, Even with the afterburners on the aircraft fails to exceed a ratio of 0.94 for a loaded aircraft, which is poor to say the least.

the KLJ-7 is a scaled down version of the KLJ-10, not the Zhuk, 105km for a target of 5 square meters against 120 km for 5 square meters??? yes the MiG-29 radar is better we are comparing the Gripen and the JFT

please provide link that klj-7 range isnt 105km for 5m2 because until now everywhere including the official figure quote this..zhuk which will be on the upgraded mig 29 has a range of 110-120 according some sources..only notable
difference is engagement it engage 4 targets instead of 2 of the klj-7.. other changes like tracking 8 vs 10 and scanning both 40 are not much signiifcant..in other words jf-17 whill detetc and lock mig 29 earlier than it can as it has lower RCS..

you can see the zhaui poster by the company producing the engines quoting a thrust of 98 max..and kamara official manufacturing site of 86.6..well nice to listen from you that it didnt had a after burn..

now of course if they are lying and you know more..thats a different story

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

[ziaulislam]

i think jf-17 three times cheaper not twice..reason is that you are counting the fly away cost not export price..which includes huge amount of VAT and other taxes..let alone the strings attched to it as 20% is american ..

[LiberalAtheist]

please provide link that klj-7 range isnt 105km for 5m2 because until now everywhere including the official figure quote this..zhuk which will be on the upgraded mig 29 has a range of 110-120 according some sources..only notable
difference is engagement it engage 4 targets instead of 2 of the klj-7.. other changes like tracking 8 vs 10 and scanning both 40 are not much signiifcant..in other words jf-17 whill detetc and lock mig 29 earlier than it can as it has lower RCS..

you can see the zhaui poster by the company producing the engines quoting a thrust of 98 max..and kamara official manufacturing site of 86.6..well nice to listen from you that it didnt had a after burn..

now of course if they are lying and you know more..thats a different story

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

when did i say it isn't??? the range for a 5 square meter target for the KLJ-7 is 105km in look up mode

provide proof that states the RD-93 engine can pull thrust of 98kn with afterburner it can only pull 84kn with afterburner adding on the RD-93 along with the older variants of the RD-33 engine have been known to be faulty and lazy and cannot sustain its after burner for long in other words the jet flying with an RD-93 engine will only be flying at dry thrust of 49KN

FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

read the engine section

[mafiya]

when did i say it isn't??? the range for a 5 square meter target for the KLJ-7 is 105km in look up mode

provide proof that states the RD-93 engine can pull thrust of 98kn with afterburner it can only pull 84kn with afterburner adding on the RD-93 along with the older variants of the RD-33 engine have been known to be faulty and lazy and cannot sustain its after burner for long in other words the jet flying with an RD-93 engine will only be flying at dry thrust of 49KN

FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

read the engine section

A little food for thought of you, reading outdated info's, even when Senior moderator suggested you to read the Updates. See the latest thrust of RD-93. and don't make fool of yourself again, until you update your self.

When The manufacturer Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is officially stating it's TWR to be 0.95, then how can you say with a outdated website link that it's thurst is blah blah!

[ziaulislam]

well if you thin 105km and 110 km radar are very different especially looking at size of zhuk and klj-7 then what can i say more?
you also didnt notice that jf-17 will have a first look first shoot advanatge over your upgraded mig 29 (all of them havnt been upgraded yet)! and here we are talking of block1 not two!

now dont keep saying that manufactureer is lying and that i personally designed the engine thats why i know better

[ziaulislam]

as of now gripen c/d(ng is not ready its also is in prototype stage) doesnt have aesa nor has a better engine..
so its very near to JF-17 ..we dont know of avionics though..my guess is grippen is better..

[LiberalAtheist]

A little food for thought of you, reading outdated info's, even when Senior moderator suggested you to read the Updates. See the latest thrust of RD-93. and don't make fool of yourself again, until you update your self.

When The manufacturer Pakistan Aeronautical Complex is officially stating it's TWR to be 0.95, then how can you say with a outdated website link that it's thurst is blah blah!

nonetheless the engine is known to be faulty with its afterburners so most of the time it will be flying with out afterburner besides i thought WS-13 was going to be used on the JFT

[LiberalAtheist]

well if you thin 105km and 110 km radar are very different especially looking at size of zhuk and klj-7 then what can i say more?
you also didnt notice that jf-17 will have a first look first shoot advanatge over your upgraded mig 29 (all of them havnt been upgraded yet)! and here we are talking of block1 not two!

now dont keep saying that manufactureer is lying and that i personally designed the engine thats why i know better

are you trying to compare the ZhukME to the KLJ-7 both radars can track 10 targets however Zhuk ME can engage 4 targets at once compared to the two on the KLJ-7 adding on the range for a target of 5 square meters for the Zhuk ME is 120km compared to the 105km on the KLJ-7 check your information bro

first shoot first look? care to kindly elaborate? you seem to think i consider the JF-17 "substandard" that is not what i mean to convey at all i've said this several times but i'll say it again the blk 1 of the JF-17 is less capable to the current Gripen what i've seen and heard about BLK 2 i believe the BLK2 will be just as good if not better to the gripen albeit at a much lower cost compared to the 40-60 million dollar per unit gripen

[MZUBAIR]

when did i say it isn't??? the range for a 5 square meter target for the KLJ-7 is 105km in look up mode

provide proof that states the RD-93 engine can pull thrust of 98kn with afterburner it can only pull 84kn with afterburner adding on the RD-93 along with the older variants of the RD-33 engine have been known to be faulty and lazy and cannot sustain its after burner for long in other words the jet flying with an RD-93 engine will only be flying at dry thrust of 49KN

FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

read the engine section

RD33 is modrinsed version of RD93 ..........
Sorry for ur poor knowledge

[MZUBAIR]

are you trying to compare the ZhukME to the KLJ-7 both radars can track 10 targets however Zhuk ME can engage 4 targets at once compared to the two on the KLJ-7 adding on the range for a target of 5 square meters for the Zhuk ME is 120km compared to the 105km on the KLJ-7 check your information bro

first shoot first look? care to kindly elaborate? you seem to think i consider the JF-17 "substandard" that is not what i mean to convey at all i've said this several times but i'll say it again the blk 1 of the JF-17 is less capable to the current Gripen what i've seen and heard about BLK 2 i believe the BLK2 will be just as good if not better to the gripen albeit at a much lower cost compared to the 40-60 million dollar per unit gripen

One question, If Gripen is too good then Y it was rejected by INDIA in MMRCA

[LiberalAtheist]

One question, If Gripen is too good then Y it was rejected by INDIA in MMRCA

from what i've read the Gripen did not meet some of the IAF's main standards especially in the field for a AESA radar, we did not want it because it did not fit our standards or qualities that the IAF procurement brass had issued

Gripen is a good fighter don't underestimate its actually very similar to our LCA in terms of engine thrust, thrust to weight, service ceiling hard points etc its a good fighter jet

[LiberalAtheist]

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RD33 is modrinsed version of RD93 ..........
Sorry for ur poor knowledge

it is modernized variant but has been known to be faulty and cannot sustain its after burner that long so most the time it will be flying without afterburners