Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

[regular]

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The Swiss have chosen the Gripen and released some details: http://www.news.admin.ch/NSBSubscrib...ents/25029.pdf

Note that they Max climb rates: Gripen >200m/s, Tiffy >200m/s and Raffy >250m/s.

In Dubai they revealed the JF-17 to have a max climb rate of 249m/s.

From these data, there is a very high probability the Gripen is inferior in the vertical to the JFT.

As the JF-17 is lighter than Gripen so offcoarse is gonna be faster than Gripen in climb rate.....

[Storm Force]

LUFTWAFFE

If you have been watching FIGHTER PROCUREMENT policies closely over the last decade or two then you will realise countries only buy military hardware from nations they trust.

ALTHOUGH PRICE IS IMPORTANT it is not the number factor.

Reliability
Support after sales
Support during war time
political brownie points
mutual vested interests.

if and when those F5 OR PHANTOMS are replaced they will be replaced by fighters from allied nations. COST wil not play a big bearing.

For china and indeed Pakistan to win orders you have to MEET the above criteria first. CAN YOU BUYER rely on you when the **** hits the fan.

eg

When india goes to war either china or pakistan I CAN GURANTEE ISRAEL & RUSSIA will be supporting india

that is the type of support THUNDERS buyers want

[regular]

thunder will always be the poor man's favourite due to its price.

Yes! I agree with U too cuz we are poor in wasting money on the expensive stuff from the west/US anymore.The Americans love buying Chinese stuff over Americans cuz it cost cheap whereas they gets envious of the countries/pplz prefering Chinese stuff over theirz.The reason is that they can't fool the other countries by selling their stuff at high prices nomore and their pockets getting empty now every other day.......

[Pfpilot]

We have two squadrons of jf-17s already in service. At this point, what is the relevance of this argument beyond purely academic point scoring? The PAF must live with the decision for better or worse...in my opinion, world events keep vindicating the Pakistani decision to distance itself from procuring aircraft from western nations with fickle foreign policies.
A local platform that will alow us to attack the position of our liking and at the time of our liking, will always be superior to a western platform that requires approval before the slightest of actions.

[TaimiKhan]

thunder will always be the poor man's favourite due to its price.

And the capability it offers in that price which others may or are offering with a higher price tag in the same class of fighters.

[Peaceful Civlian]

Even if i compare 50 JF17 v 200 Gripen/F16, I would still prefer 50 JF17. Reason is that JF17 is R&d program, There is no substitute of learning from Research & development . Money spend on R&d never get waste as as it always helps in future for further progress, and I am sure, PAF have learnt lots of things/experience in this project with Chinese. Still NO Full Stop. Only in 10 years record time, it appeared as Modern Multi-role fighter. Participated in many International airshows. Here is fruit, you are comparing it with F16, Griphen and other modern fighters with arguments. Block2,3 will be huge Boost for PAF,which will arrive soon in coming months as 4.5 generation. No cents for Gripen w.r.t JFT

[Luftwaffe]

If you have been watching FIGHTER PROCUREMENT policies closely over the last decade or two then you will realise countries only buy military hardware from nations they trust.

ALTHOUGH PRICE IS IMPORTANT it is not the number factor.

Reliability
Support after sales
Support during war time
political brownie points
mutual vested interests.

if and when those F5 OR PHANTOMS are replaced they will be replaced by fighters from allied nations. COST wil not play a big bearing. For china and indeed Pakistan to win orders you have to MEET the above criteria first. CAN YOU BUYER rely on you when the **** hits the fan. eg When india goes to war either china or pakistan I CAN GURANTEE ISRAEL & RUSSIA will be supporting india that is the type of support THUNDERS buyers want

Smaller countries do not trust US-Euro (leave arab nations aside they story is different)

Price and Number factor is also important so is Capability important if you are getting an aircraft 3 times lesser then the F-16 which has A2A-A2G Sea Strike capabilities marketed along with it is equipment-weapons the aircraft is bound to get attention, even arabs are now clever enough to first ask for AMRAAMs before the aircraft Itself, question customers ask; will you sell us amrram, will sell us antiship missiles, will you sell us better radar and or AESA radar in future and so on and now the most important question being ask in international market is that is it sanction free product-platform? No clear answer would mean an instant refusal.

Reliability, after Sales Support, during war time support and all other interests keep JFT ahead in the market for small nations then any Aircraft at the moment because US-Euro does not provide during war support nor do they share any interests the only thing is "we sell you buy as long as we have interest in you", that is an unacceptable mentality for any and all customers, example F-16s- for Pakistan, Indonesia, Venezuela and F-14s for Iran and so on..

Can a buyer rely on Euro-US when what ever hits the fan as you were speaking, NO neither will Russian you can see from that aircraft carrier of yours and so will india stop the support under international pressure. Russian under pressure stop selling S300 to Iran, hindustan backed-off from gas pipeline project left in the middle. Lastly China can support and after sales support of China is much feasible and faster then any nation across the globe, there are no delays.

[ziaulislam]

Well if Gripen cost 2.5 x a Thunder

NEXT QUESTION

For PAF which is better

100 Gripens

or 250 thunders

That will answer this topic question

thunders because..
1.it will be locally produced(no out flow of resources)
2. its maintenance cost will b less due to local production
3. no restriction from US or any other countries
4. Local weapons can easily be inducted plus better compatibility with chinese systems
5. some updates can be followed by revenue of exporting thunder. no restrictions on future updates
6. Jf-17 is as capable as gripen c and block 2 will be comparable to NG


the reason for gripen being expensive is its being a western product (high R&D cost and labour) and the fact the all sales involves VAT and other things

[Loki]

Please see my thread on detailed info for the Gripen NG:
Detailed Analysis of possible future aircraft of the BAF

Starts at post# 35.

[MastanKhan]

Even if i compare 50 JF17 v 200 Gripen/F16, I would still prefer 50 JF17. Reason is that JF17 is R&d program, There is no substitute of learning from Research & development . Money spend on R&d never get waste as as it always helps in future for further progress, and I am sure, PAF have learnt lots of things/experience in this project with Chinese. Still NO Full Stop. Only in 10 years record time, it appeared as Modern Multi-role fighter. Participated in many International airshows. Here is fruit, you are comparing it with F16, Griphen and other modern fighters with arguments. Block2,3 will be huge Boost for PAF,which will arrive soon in coming months as 4.5 generation. No cents for Gripen w.r.t JFT

Sir,

You procure your weapons and weapon systems to fight the best that the enemy has o put out---you don't buy them for your R&D.

Pakistan had two instance of going to war in the last 8 months---or small conflict---its air force was woefully incompetent to take on the aggressor. If pakistan had rafales or Grippen's in service----would the reaction of pak airofrce be any different???

[nuclearpak]

Sir,

You procure your weapons and weapon systems to fight the best that the enemy has o put out---you don't buy them for your R&D.

Pakistan had two instance of going to war in the last 8 months---or small conflict---its air force was woefully incompetent to take on the aggressor. If pakistan had rafales or Grippen's in service----would the reaction of pak airofrce be any different???

Answering to your question, I don't think so.

Even if you had 3 Squadrons of Rafales or EF or whatever, the reaction would have been the same.

Same excuses would have been made up, same old story would have been published.

A F-16 or F-7 could have atleast intercepted the intruding heli, if not shot it down.

[Machoman]

FC 1 is the name used for Thunder in China, J10 goes by the J-10 only with 2 variants as j-10a and b. And the export version of J-10b that Pakistan is buying is called FC-20

Bye the way Pakistan is not buying B its buying A version now, thanks to Zardari.

[Peaceful Civlian]

Sir,

You procure your weapons and weapon systems to fight the best that the enemy has o put out---you don't buy them for your R&D.

Pakistan had two instance of going to war in the last 8 months---or small conflict---its air force was woefully incompetent to take on the aggressor. If pakistan had rafales or Grippen's in service----would the reaction of pak airofrce be any different???

Brother In this case what is the use of Rafales or Grappen's?? Those were Apache helicopters, Not F18 or F22. PAF could use F7 for these helicopters. F7 is enough for Apache if there were proper Rules of engagement or "PAF Will" to destroy these intruders. Just Imagine if Pakistan had 200 Grappen's? As Grappen's is JV of Sweden and UK,Then it is high Possibility, "Sweden,UK" could Lock these Planes if used against USA/NATO. Everyone knows Jets which USA provides to Israel, contains full capabilities then he provides to third world with limited..., Lol what is Lock system?? There are many Gossips here and there, I.e, if Iraq uses F16 against Israel.If Pak uses f16 against USA. And what about USA history with Pak??? Forgot?, always proved themselves Back Stabbers. They are only Friends with themselves and their interests, And about JF. I,ve not included After sales service, Maintenance costs, sanctions prone. etc.

[Bukhari.syed]

In case of control and cost JF-17 else Gripen has good points also....

[alimobin memon]

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Bye the way Pakistan is not buying B its buying A version now, thanks to Zardari.

Why are u blaming zardari for this?