JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[ziaulislam]

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gripen thrust itself isnt too high and it is slightly heavier too

[bc040400065]

1909 km/h makes Mach 1.8?
Global Aircraft Speed Converter

But at many information boards, maximum speed of JFT is written as Mach 1.6 now which one to trust?

there are some other confusing figures about payload and engine output and range etc. klimov's poster says RD93 has 96KN thrust but PAC is still showing the 10 years old figures, in the information pool thread tempest II has posted some snaps which claim weapon load is >4000. It was 3600 then 3800 and now >4000, confusion confusion confusion
when will PAC update its website??????

[Oscar]

I don’t believe it is a typo.
It was an international marketing event and they will have taken a lot of time to prepare. The preparation would have been checked and agreed by several people on what is appropriate to publish – including the PAF.
You are ignoring that Klimov have already published the RD-93 with 96kN max output. I don’t buy the argument from some people that the 96kN RD-93 is not for the FC-1/JF17 when the RD-93 is specifically an FC-1/JF-17 engine. You want to think that is another mistake?

The engine pushes wings which generate lift.
climb rate depends on the T/W ratio and the amount of lift the JF's wings generate.
One of Dassaults early experimental delta's had a fairly small engine and not too high a T/W ratio.. but it generated a lot of lift and could climb like a rocket.

[PakShaheen79]

JF-17 has a maximum ferry range of 2037km and a maximum combat radius of 1352km with speed of Mach 1.8. It has a service ceiling of 54000 ft with the climb rate of 154 m/sec.

http://www.pakwheels.com/blog/articl...for-the-layman

Don't know how credible as it is clearly wrong on ferry range figure but combat radius is written correct along with top speed.

[Tempest II]

there are some other confusing figures about payload and engine output and range etc. klimov's poster says RD93 has 96KN thrust but PAC is still showing the 10 years old figures, in the information pool thread tempest II has posted some snaps which claim weapon load is >4000. It was 3600 then 3800 and now >4000, confusion confusion confusion
when will PAC update its website??????

The both PAC and AVIC websites don’t get updated regularly. What I have noticed though is that the info gets confirmed slowly and in trickles. We should try to connect the dots – yes sometimes that is not easy and we might disagree on which dots to connect but as long as we have a healthy debate that is good.
Concerning the power of the RD-93’s improved performance, my first “***” was none other than the late Sqn Ldr Hussain saying the JFT has a TWR of more than 1.01! Next “***” was the Klimov poster of 96kN. Then we have the Dubai presentation of 249m/s climb which surpasses the Gripen E/F and the EF-2000. … … And of course we don’t question the power of the Gripen E/F or the EF-2000 … … for the simple and sad reason that they are Western and not cheap Chinese fighters!!.

I could be wrong but I believe that the max climb rate is more from the engine thrust than the wings. Yes wings still provide some lift. The other climb rate is the optimal where you try to burn less fuel and rely less on the engine but more on the wings …???

We also have sources saying the Chinese were asking the Russians to improve the engine. So, should we be surprised or be shocked that there is a more powerful engine out there. When we know the “sister” RD-33K has got a lot more power anyway.

Another possible hint for the improved engine is the >4,000kg (4,600kg) external stores.
In all these “dots” I can see a pattern and some consistency that point to an RD-93 that delivers more that the original 84kN.

[fatman17]

^^^its good to keep the enemy guessing on the capabilities of the JFT. in the 65 conflict, the IAF had to assume that all 120 F-86's were equipped to fire A2A missiles when in fact only 25 Sabres were fitted for the early model Sidewinder (GAR8). it was a huge advantage.

[Last Hope]

Found this old picture, which was made by me, someone on the hard drive of my laptop and hence thought to share it. A PAF JF-17 (10-113) shooting down a Su-30MKI with SD-10A.

[Dazzler]

just one thing..... blk 2 is more capable than many (including me) think and PAF chief deliberately said a few things that dissapointed many. You can guess the rest. Offtopic, but ZDK-03s will arrive any time in early December.

[DANGER-ZONE]

Offtopic, but ZDK-03s will arrive any time in early December.

This video is captured by a friend of mine on FB on 1-Dec-11 before that another friend of mine from FB reported that he has seen ZDK-03 in Chaklala 28 or 29 November.

Video is captured in Karachi Gulshan AREA while Karakoram Eagle is on its way to land on Masroor.


Bhai jan, we have already received one in Nov 11

[Black Widow]

Found this old picture, which was made by me, someone on the hard drive of my laptop and hence thought to share it. A PAF JF-17 (10-113) shooting down a Su-30MKI with SD-10A.

The missile has been released, MKI counter measure can duck it using different mechanism...

[DANGER-ZONE]

The missile has been released, MKI counter measure can duck it using different mechanism...

Ya Ya We know that .... he just wanted to share his Art work and nothing more.
Now BY BY ..

[salman108]

I don’t believe it is a typo.
It was an international marketing event and they will have taken a lot of time to prepare. The preparation would have been checked and agreed by several people on what is appropriate to publish – including the PAF.
You are ignoring that Klimov have already published the RD-93 with 96kN max output. I don’t buy the argument from some people that the 96kN RD-93 is not for the FC-1/JF17 when the RD-93 is specifically an FC-1/JF-17 engine. You want to think that is another mistake?

See, the number you have quoted kind of prove the point I was making.

High climb = High Lift = Large Wing Area OR Higher angle of Attack

Large Wing Area OR High angle of Attack == High Drag

High Drag needs more powerful engine.

So unless we know that the engine's power has increased or PAF has managed to decrease the plane's weight,
we need some more dots.

[Tempest II]

we need some more dots.

More dots than the chief designer ... the engine manufacturer ... and the squadron leader of a unit operating the plane?

[salman108]

More dots than the chief designer ... the engine manufacturer ... and the squadron leader of a unit operating the plane?

I was referring to WE as in those on the forum...
so spill some beans and tell us more.

the picture right now, is not making sense to me ...

[CallsignAlzaeem]

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The both PAC and AVIC websites don’t get updated regularly. What I have noticed though is that the info gets confirmed slowly and in trickles. We should try to connect the dots – yes sometimes that is not easy and we might disagree on which dots to connect but as long as we have a healthy debate that is good.
Concerning the power of the RD-93’s improved performance, my first “***” was none other than the late Sqn Ldr Hussain saying the JFT has a TWR of more than 1.01! Next “***” was the Klimov poster of 96kN. Then we have the Dubai presentation of 249m/s climb which surpasses the Gripen E/F and the EF-2000. … … And of course we don’t question the power of the Gripen E/F or the EF-2000 … … for the simple and sad reason that they are Western and not cheap Chinese fighters!!.

I could be wrong but I believe that the max climb rate is more from the engine thrust than the wings. Yes wings still provide some lift. The other climb rate is the optimal where you try to burn less fuel and rely less on the engine but more on the wings …???

We also have sources saying the Chinese were asking the Russians to improve the engine. So, should we be surprised or be shocked that there is a more powerful engine out there. When we know the “sister” RD-33K has got a lot more power anyway.

Another possible hint for the improved engine is the >4,000kg (4,600kg) external stores.
In all these “dots” I can see a pattern and some consistency that point to an RD-93 that delivers more that the original 84kN.

The climb rate of Typhoon is 320m/s your calculation is wrong.