JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Dazzler]

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But still AIM120 is the most potent weapon in Pakistan Air Force.You can't deny this.I highly doubt Chinese have any real equivalent of AIM120 ( Whcih actually matches the performance of AIM120).

Aim 120 is only to be used with f-16 which makes it limited to one platform. Without source codes, neither can it be integrated on any other fighter nor can it be used with its potential capability. This is where sd-10A fits in, not only PAF has total source code that can be modified at will, but the weapon has shown much promise during trials. This is why it already has three versions in service with Chinese Airforce. It is highly reliable, accurate, uses dual mode guidance and comes with a no strings package at least for PAF. It already has longer range and better ECCM than aim 120 c5 that we use.

[Pak47]

What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of having dual tail wings compared to one?

[persona_non_grata]

What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of having dual tail wings compared to one?

2 tails better than one ?

[Dazzler]

What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of having dual tail wings compared to one?

depends on various parameters of the aircraft design such as speed, control, drag. In simulations, dual tail arrangement has provided better stability at higher and lower speeds. It particularly works well for twin engine, heavy aircrafts but this is not a rule of thumb.

[Armstrong]

Aim 120 is only to be used with f-16 which makes it limited to one platform. Without source codes, neither can it be integrated on any other fighter nor can it be used with its potential capability. This is where sd-10A fits in, not only PAF has total source code that can be modified at will, but the weapon has shown much promise during trials. This is why it already has three versions in service with Chinese Airforce. It is highly reliable, accurate, uses dual mode guidance and comes with a no strings package at least for PAF. It already has longer range and better ECCM than aim 120 c5 that we use.

A newbie question, Nabil : Can we reverse engineer the source codes ? Surely there are pretty darn good computer buffs here in Pakistan.

[Dazzler]

the question is what is the need when you have a plug and play missile that is being upgraded at a lightening pace? By the time we get JFT blk3, we may well have sd-10b or even better. No need to **** uncle sam.

[Armstrong]

the question is what is the need when you have a plug and play missile that is being upgraded at a lightening pace? By the time we get JFT blk3, we may well have sd-10b or even better. No need to **** uncle sam.

Okay...but it can be done...right ? I mean we could use the insight elsewhere or by looking into some other missile...right ?

[cb4]

Aim 120 is only to be used with f-16 which makes it limited to one platform. Without source codes, neither can it be integrated on any other fighter nor can it be used with its potential capability. This is where sd-10A fits in, not only PAF has total source code that can be modified at will, but the weapon has shown much promise during trials. This is why it already has three versions in service with Chinese Airforce. It is highly reliable, accurate, uses dual mode guidance and comes with a no strings package at least for PAF. It already has longer range and better ECCM than aim 120 c5 that we use.

But can we use them to launch from ground?

[Nishan_101]

Chinese JF-17 is a Cheap Competition For The F-16





Well for one I dont remember anyone claiming that the production would be 25 a/c from the get go it was always as i remember "enhanced" and increased to 25 a/c per year.





-Day time interceptor ( JF-17 has day/night capability AFAIK)

-F-16 I best in the F-16 family ( I thought it was the F-16 E/F block 60 and now the upcoming F-16V's)

-While the writer basically mentions most of the advantages that med/heavy class holds over the light class (range,payload etc) but does not mention the advantages of light over med/heavy (ease of maintenance, turn around times etc)

-However the most interesting thing is from radar,avionics to EW suite the writer says it in one go every thing is superior of the F-16 I however check out the EW capabilities of JFT




-Last point of second hand F-16's being cheaper is quite surprising for me since I never found an F-16 of same capabilities/ technology wise (F-16 Block 40 or higher) in the price tag that is mentioned by the author (25 million per piece)










-Well the author passes his judgement on the behalf of Chinese touting it as a "failed design". Ironically CAC developed a whole new PT-06, tests its newest weapons (anti ship,LS-6 and SD-10 series) tests its homemade engine (WS-13) on it after according to the author the JFT is considered by them as a "failed design"..





-The MOU of the project was signed in 1995 (our author friend also needs help with counting I guess)
-Even if the author considers the Grumman project of Sabre II (1989-1991) it still counts up to 17-18 years (not 20 even then) till PAF recieved the SBP in 2006-7.




-First off the Mig-33 jargon has been discussed in grave detail...However the output by the design is the vital factor not the base of the design itself.eg the cancelled LAVI and now we have a similar design in J-10 which has whipped the floor with the J-11's,SU-30's.At the end of the day its about how capable the JF-17 is not how is it based on other designs.In a war your opponent wont ask you
"HEY!!! your jet is based on a cancelled project so why dont you get locked,get shot and go to the heavens "








lastly the specs used are of old prototype mostly used by the writers that are critical of JF-17
eg
-3.6 tonnes (revealed now to be around 3.8-4.0 tonnes)
-2000 Km/h (1.6 Mach) however we know its 1.8 Mach
-Wrong I dont know of any official of PLAAF explicitly saying that "WE DONT WANT JF-17"
-PAF has 2 squadrons in service as of today and the third one is in near completion

Although it can pose a great deal of competition to other fighters if the the protype-06 is being created with extensive use of composites along with Retractable in flight refueling probe, FLIR(if it was developed) and RD-93Bs along with the dual seat to fly in 2007 and enter in service by 2008. So we may be able to get orders in 2009 and 2010 for this. Even then PAC should force GoP along with PAF to produce as much spares in Pakistan in a public-private partnership with JV in Engine development WS-13(100KN).
So that PAF:
110 JF-17 Block-I along with 30 Dual seat (till 2012)
110 JF-17 Block-II
110 JF-17 Block-III
70 FC-20s PACs. (till 2015)
59 Block-15s MLU-3s(Don't gone with the Block-52s)

What is this?

Its an interesting image.. obviously photoshoped.

What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of having dual tail wings compared to one?

I am sure that it will not be a Block-III, rather an entirely new aircraft.

[mdcp]

How many fully functional combat ready JF17 we have in inventory

[Beast]

But still AIM120 is the most potent weapon in Pakistan Air Force.You can't deny this.I highly doubt Chinese have any real equivalent of AIM120 ( Whcih actually matches the performance of AIM120).

If Chinese do not have anythng equivalent to US AIM-120, US Defence will never clear this missile for export to PAF... What US sold to PAF is all already achieved by Chinese side. Ever since the Islamic revolution of Iran in the 1979 which US sold their most advance F-14 to Persian which is a terrible mistake. US are fully aware of selling an advance weapon to a highly questionable allies. Chinese SD-10 is as good as AIM-120C, this is claimed by the chief designer of SD-10(PL-12).

In fact, the PAF F-16 Blk 52 ,electronic warfare suit, jammer, targeting pod and AIM-120 BVRAAM all has the equivalent in Chinese inventory, if not better. US is not stupid to sold something more advance to a possible enemy..

CHina is not some stone age country. It is a country capable of building its own C4I network which require extensive series of satelites plus its own GPS system which is the Beidou. It is the only capable GPS system after US and Russia.

It has also achieved coverage over Pakistan skies plus India which PAF can freely use it to target anywhere in Indian without using US GPS which is likely to be denied for Pakistan during war with India.

[Cool_Soldier]

Any Idea when new JF-17 Block-2 is going to be inducted in PAF?

[rockstar]

If Chinese do not have anythng equivalent to US AIM-120, US Defence will never clear this missile for export to PAF... What US sold to PAF is all already achieved by Chinese side. Ever since the Islamic revolution of Iran in the 1979 which US sold their most advance F-14 to Persian which is a terrible mistake. US are fully aware of selling an advance weapon to a highly questionable allies. Chinese SD-10 is as good as AIM-120C, this is claimed by the chief designer of SD-10(PL-12).



In fact, the PAF F-16 Blk 52 ,electronic warfare suit, jammer, targeting pod and AIM-120 BVRAAM all has the equivalent in Chinese inventory, if not better. US is not stupid to sold something more advance to a possible enemy..

CHina is not some stone age country. It is a country capable of building its own C4I network which require extensive series of satelites plus its own GPS system which is the Beidou. It is the only capable GPS system after US and Russia.

It has also achieved coverage over Pakistan skies plus India which PAF can freely use it to target anywhere in Indian without using US GPS which is likely to be denied for Pakistan during war with India.

Off topic but SD-10 uses the same seeker radar and data link same as R-77 right?

[Oscar]

Off topic but SD-10 uses the same seeker radar and data link same as R-77 right?

As the baseline it was.. That is no longer the case.
The SD-10's seeker is now a very modified form of the original seekers purchased from Russia.
The D/L is indigenous.

[Beast]

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As the baseline it was.. That is no longer the case.
The SD-10's seeker is now a very modified form of the original seekers purchased from Russia.
The D/L is indigenous.

Precisely, In fact, I will not say its modify. It is already a design of its own. AMR-1 seeker which claim to be copy of R-77 is just mainly an export product during 1998 Zuhai Airshow... Nothing to suggest, it was chosen by PLAAF in PL-12.