India: A Democracy Soaked In Blood

[notsuperstitious]

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Curtains for India is good news for Pakistani fanbois. Yet this fanboi is so concerned. He should be happy that the hundreds of millions of poor people will be free finally and the brahminical system will break apart and the social reform started by Mohammed Bin Qasim the emancipator millennium ago will be fulfilled. The fanboi should be ecstatic.

But he is not.

Does not compute.

[vK_man]

Oh come on guys. The map above heads India: Chronic Conflict - and this says all. The current growth in India is only in limited areas and not in most of India where millions languish below poverty line. And this poverty line (Indian Rupee/dollar equivalent) is lowered officially every now and then to fool Indians and the world. The OpEd indicates the unequal economic dispensation - and this is the cause.

If you think that Naxal is the only indigenous movement then where did 140 others come from. Oh-Yeah ..... the neighbours are responsible. As if India's neighbours have nothing else to do and raise freedom movements and insurgencies in India. WOW - paranoid aren't you guys. Wake up and understand that you people have a major problem at hand. Stop your brave soldiers from killing and torturing your own before the curtains are drawn for your shining India.

Other zones do not have insurgencies comparable to the naxal rebellion nor that kind of popularity.I am not paranoid or kneejerk type either.

[Tinu]

Pakistan is a cradle of Indus Civilization. Over a period of centuries, this mass of territory was occupied by people who followed different religions at different times, from Hindus to Buddhists and now Muslims. This mass of territory is geographically an independent entity which was completely separate from the rest of South Asia, part of which is now India.

The Indians think that they lost their identity with the loss of ares bounded within Indus Civilization. To find an identity, the Ganges Civilization was later invented by them which cradled Gangetic planes. Besides the Indus Civilization Areas the rest of what now is called India is essentially a forced amalgamation of three separate areas inhabited by completely different set of terrain and people i.e. East, South and Central India. These three set of different entities are likely to succeed from the now so-called forced-entity India. It will happen sooner than later.

What Pakistan occupies now is an independent and separate geographical entity with some areas being manipulatively taken away at the time of independence. We are the current holders of Indus Civilization and any major changes to such a geographical entity takes centuries to evolve.

India being an un-natural geographical forced-entity will take much less time to breakup. Many renowned contemporary scholars agree with this outcome.

[oFFbEAT]

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Pakistanis suffers from identity crisis all the time......they even claim a non-Islamic civilization their own....despite the fact that their forefathers destroyed the civilization....what hypocrisy..

[Tinu]

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Pakistanis suffers from identity crisis all the time......they even claim a non-Islamic civilization their own....despite the fact that their forefathers destroyed the civilization....what hypocrisy..

Like it or not, you will always remain off-beat as your identity has been lost for good and you will continue fighting and killing your own people to keep India united. However, the unity that you Indians seek in diversity will not unite different entities of what you call India.

[oFFbEAT]

^^^^The fact is, if you're hostile towards Hindus and Buddhists, you cannot claim the heritage of the Indus Valley Civilization.....

You cannot claim the heritage of the people your forefathers killed.....if you do so, then you're a hypocrite......as simple as that....

[Jinx1]

Pakistan is a cradle of Indus Civilization. Over a period of centuries, this mass of territory was occupied by people who followed different religions at different times, from Hindus to Buddhists and now Muslims. This mass of territory is geographically an independent entity which was completely separate from the rest of South Asia, part of which is now India.

The Indians think that they lost their identity with the loss of ares bounded within Indus Civilization. To find an identity, the Ganges Civilization was later invented by them which cradled Gangetic planes. Besides the Indus Civilization Areas the rest of what now is called India is essentially a forced amalgamation of three separate areas inhabited by completely different set of terrain and people i.e. East, South and Central India. These three set of different entities are likely to succeed from the now so-called forced-entity India. It will happen sooner than later.

What Pakistan occupies now is an independent and separate geographical entity with some areas being manipulatively taken away at the time of independence. We are the current holders of Indus Civilization and any major changes to such a geographical entity takes centuries to evolve.

India being an un-natural geographical forced-entity will take much less time to breakup. Many renowned contemporary scholars agree with this outcome.

Very good explanation Tinu. Good yaar.

[vK_man]

Pakistan is a cradle of Indus Civilization. Over a period of centuries, this mass of territory was occupied by people who followed different religions at different times, from Hindus to Buddhists and now Muslims. This mass of territory is geographically an independent entity which was completely separate from the rest of South Asia, part of which is now India.

The Indians think that they lost their identity with the loss of ares bounded within Indus Civilization. To find an identity, the Ganges Civilization was later invented by them which cradled Gangetic planes. Besides the Indus Civilization Areas the rest of what now is called India is essentially a forced amalgamation of three separate areas inhabited by completely different set of terrain and people i.e. East, South and Central India. These three set of different entities are likely to succeed from the now so-called forced-entity India. It will happen sooner than later.

What Pakistan occupies now is an independent and separate geographical entity with some areas being manipulatively taken away at the time of independence. We are the current holders of Indus Civilization and any major changes to such a geographical entity takes centuries to evolve.

India being an un-natural geographical forced-entity will take much less time to breakup. Many renowned contemporary scholars agree with this outcome.

What if I said Soviet archaeological findings indicate that Indo-harrappan-ganges civilisation is way older.more than 10000 years and believe that they were destroyed in an ancient nuclear war? I am more on the conspirological side.Not the fanboy flame war type .

India being an un-natural geographical forced-entity will take much less time to breakup. Many renowned contemporary scholars agree with this outcome.

What if I said that committee of 300 targets you for destruction first then India.NATO is successfully destabilising Pakistan.

[DARIUS]

Like it or not, you will always remain off-beat as your identity has been lost for good and you will continue fighting and killing your own people to keep India united. However, the unity that you Indians seek in diversity will not unite different entities of what you call India.

U are talking as if the so called Muslim ummah in your country are sparing the Ahmedia's and the Ismaeli's or the Muhajir's!!Leave them aside,u people are killing each other each and every single day.Come out of ur delusional state of mind for once mate. . . . Once Pakistan manages to survive it's current fate u guy's will have enough time to worry about India.So for the time being focus on ur internal issues!Arent the Pakistani Talibans killing 100's of their Muslim brothers every single day.And as far as India is concerned its a land of huge diversity.We in our country have a conglomeration of every existing faith on earth. . . u just name it,Jews,Christians,Muslims,Parsees,Bahai's. . . and what not!!Given these sensational paradoxes it is but quite natural for us to have dissimilarities in mind set's and petty disputes now and then which BTW we are capable of managing pretty well all by ourselves!But ur Quiad-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah laid the foundation stone of ur great nation on the basis of Islam alone so that no innocent Muslim blood is ever spilled(Which I am totally in support of)!!Then why are Pakistanis killed on a regular basis??Why are ur politicians just like our's looting the nation of it's wealth,why is ur Islamic Army going out of bound's to destabilize the democratically elected Govt.?Why is Pakistan counted amongst the top most failed states??What did ull do to ur Eastern brother's?Do u have any answer?Now please do not give me all that conspiracy crap propagated by lunatic's like Mr.Zaid Hamid. . . So u see instead of bashing us make straight ur own state!!And lastly I am hearing rumors about the US planning to intervene in Balochistan,if situations in India had been that bad escpecially on the HR issue the world would have treated India in the same way,so why aren't they doing anything,if I go by ur views that "no one gives a damn about India" then there's all the more reason for the international community to intervene cause India according to u is a petty nation like Pakistan.So why this biased approach.A Pakistani would ordinarily respond by saying,"It's a Hindu-Zionist conspiracy against the Islamic world"!!If that had been the reality my friend then the same fate would have been shared by the U.A.E.,Saudi Arab,Indonesia,Brunei,Turkey(which BTW is a NATO member state and heavily involved in Afghanistan)and all such Muslim Nation's!!But its not so. . . So kindly stop worrying about India and get a life!!

[oFFbEAT]

^^^^good point.....

[Jinx1]

What if I said Soviet archaeological findings indicate that Indo-harrappan-ganges civilisation is way older.more than 10000 years and believe that they were destroyed in an ancient nuclear war? I am more on the conspirological side.Not the fanboy flame war type .

Yeah yeah yeah ...... What if I tell you that there is no Soviet Union now. I will be telling the truth. You need to open your eyes and wake up from sleep sir.

What if I said that committee of 300 targets you for destruction first then India.NATO is successfully destabilising Pakistan.

Sir, I assure you that I will join the committee of 300 and support them for the second destruction

[whythiskolaveridi]

India at least has been able to maintain the democracy for last 60 years. Those who don't know the meaning or have rarely seen democracy in their own country will naturally be ignorant people. That's why people from Pakistan come all the way to India to learn about Democracy. Only in March this year 200 lawyers from Pakistan visited India to study democratic Institutions. is not this hypocrisy???????????????//////

[Jinx1]

You ladies come over here, hurl insults at us all the time, abuse our country, our people, our leaders and our religion and desire that we should simply bow in obedience. It is not going to happen mademoiselles. We will hit back and respond - of-course while remaining within the forum rules.

Your JCO Bana was a brave soldier. I have no qualms about acknowledging that. But if you think that there are whimpies here on this side - you all are mistaken. We don't underestimate or overestimate our enemies.

May I ask where were the brave JCO Bana like Sikh worriers when the Indian Army invaded and destroyed the sacred Sri Harmandir Sahib. My ancestors living near jullundhar saved a great guru of yours from the mughals - yes we were Muslims then as well. But where were your Sikh warriors when your holiest place was desecrated.

This is what this OpEd writer is probably saying. Instead of releasing your Sikh anger on us Pakistanis, learn to safeguard what is yours in a land that belongs to you.

The Hindus dont even accept that Sikhs have a separate religion. They say that it is just an off-shoot of Hinduism. Two Sikhs killed Indra Gandhi - Over three thousand Sikhs were killed and burnt alive only in Delhi alone. The terrorist Modi from Gujarat did the same with Muslims. They are doing the same in Kashmir, in North East India and in many other places because the minorities are not Hindu and they don't have a place in Indianized Kingdom.

You think you don't have a Stalin - who is Modi of Gujarat. For those who don't know Russians hate Stalin for killing millions of Russians because he had the power. Have your Stalins and kill as many Indians that you want to, because you have a democracy soaked in blood of your own people.

[oFFbEAT]

^^^^^You are mistaken....the Sikh massacre was NOT religiously motivated.....there were complicated political issues involved.....
The Sikh massacre was a result of personal vendetta of a powerful man.....once Rajiv Gandhi even said, "there are always tremors when a great tree(like Indira Gandhi) falls"...........

The incident leading to 'operation blue star'....followed by killing of Indira Gandhi.....and finally Sikh massacre is a separatist movement of which many Sikhs were against....infact a Sikh named Kuldip Singh Brar led 'operation blue star'......
Therefore, it was NOT Hindus who attacked Sikhs, it was Congressi thugs who attacked Shiks.....
And believe it or not there are so many Indians who hate the Nehru-Gandhi family for the blunders they have done......

Hindus don't hate Sikh....we even consider GURU NANAK DEV(founder of Sikhism) as one of our gods....like we consider GAUTAMA BUDDHA(founder of Buddhism), Mahavira(founder of Jainism) as our gods....because all these religious leaders were born Hindus....and we respect and love these enlightened persons by worshiping them.....

Therefore there is no inherent conflict between the Religions originated from India(Hinduism,Buddhism,Sikhism,Jainism)......

BUT this is not the case for Islam.....even though other religions have no problem with Islam.....Islam has problem with all the other religions.......
Hindus think, there are multiple ways(paths) to God(truth), therefore we accept different religions as different ways(paths).....
Whereas Muslims think there is ONLY ONE way to God which is Islam and problems arise when they try to force their beliefs on others and kill them if they deny.....
Ofcourse there are sane, moderate Muslims who helped people of other religions under different circumstances.....but majority are hardliners and they regard people of all other religions as 'Kaafirs'......

[whythiskolaveridi]

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You ladies come over here, hurl insults at us all the time, abuse our country, our people, our leaders and our religion and desire that we should simply bow in obedience. It is not going to happen mademoiselles. We will hit back and respond - of-course while remaining within the forum rules.

Your JCO Bana was a brave soldier. I have no qualms about acknowledging that. But if you think that there are whimpies here on this side - you all are mistaken. We don't underestimate or overestimate our enemies.

May I ask where were the brave JCO Bana like Sikh worriers when the Indian Army invaded and destroyed the sacred Sri Harmandir Sahib. My ancestors living near jullundhar saved a great guru of yours from the mughals - yes we were Muslims then as well. But where were your Sikh warriors when your holiest place was desecrated.

This is what this OpEd writer is probably saying. Instead of releasing your Sikh anger on us Pakistanis, learn to safeguard what is yours in a land that belongs to you.

The Hindus dont even accept that Sikhs have a separate religion. They say that it is just an off-shoot of Hinduism. Two Sikhs killed Indra Gandhi - Over three thousand Sikhs were killed and burnt alive only in Delhi alone. The terrorist Modi from Gujarat did the same with Muslims. They are doing the same in Kashmir, in North East India and in many other places because the minorities are not Hindu and they don't have a place in Indianized Kingdom.

You think you don't have a Stalin - who is Modi of Gujarat. For those who don't know Russians hate Stalin for killing millions of Russians because he had the power. Have your Stalins and kill as many Indians that you want to, because you have a democracy soaked in blood of your own people.

Religious riots are common world over but What Pakistan had done to its own Muslim brothers in East Pakistan is no where to be matched. You were probably not even born that time but ask the generation of that era what they had gone through. Muslims, who agreed to be part of the dream which Jinnah had promised to the Muslims of India was not to be seen.

Even today you are treating Ahmadis and Mohajirs like that only. You feel you are the only purest Muslims in the world. Before showing concern for the people of different religions take care of your own people. Sikhs are quite happy and very much part of India. The PM and the Chief of Army are Sikh only. How many Hindus you have on such posts in Pakistan.

And what do you know about democracy? India had 60 years of democracy and running. What guarantee is there for your elected govt. 1971 is a testimony to your democracy when Mujib being the elected representative of the people was denied power. Instead you butchered men, women and kids in Bangladesh. The worst human rights violation in history in the sub-continent.