Kashmir: News & Discussions

[Omar1984]

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Hi guys, as you are all aware, recent months have seen a very unfortunatre cycle of violence and unrest in J&K yet there's something very interesting to note. No major international power/organisation such as US/UK/France/China/Russia/UN/muslim or Arab world etc. has lent its voice to the kashmir issue even after so much trouble and so many deaths.

There is an unprecedented calm/silence over Kashmir in the international arena. Nobody is willing to take up the issue of kashmir except Pakistan.

My questional to all of you is, are we slowly but surely witnessing the 'internalising' of Kashmir as far as India is concerned? Are we witnessing an ever decreasing role of Pakistan/international community as far as Kashmir is concerned? There is a near total silence on Kashmir.

I,personally, feel that since India is now on its way to become a global power and a huge economic beacon of hope for the west as well as for China (in terms of India's huge market etc.) and also as the centre of global power slowly shifts from west to east and with west more and more grappling with many other much serious issues of its own which are primarily economic in nature, Kashmir has majorly lost and is still losing any international significance or relevance it one had...

What do you guys think?

The British thought the same when they were beating your people and my people to death and colonizing our land, but we did get freedom and independence when the British thought they would be ruling the subcontinent forever.


Kashmir will get its freedom and indepenence just like Pakistan and India did in 1947.

[anurag_singh]

The British thought the same when they were beating your people and my people to death and colonizing our land, but we did get freedom and independence when the British thought they would be ruling the subcontinent forever.


Kashmir will get its freedom and indepenence just like Pakistan and India did in 1947.

I have said this before and saying it again. At that time there were 105000 british and 350 million Indians but here at most 3 million(if you consider whole valley anti India) against 1.2 billion united Indian. So you can only dream about independence.

[Speaker]

The British thought the same when they were beating your people and our people to death and colonizing our land, but we did get freedom and independence when the British thought they would be ruling the subcontinent forever.


Kashmir will get its freedom and indepenence just like Pakistan and India did in 1947.

You are treating two things which have nothing in common. The British came and occupied foreign lands. In the case of Kashmir, one group of people (ony valley muslims) want this so called azadi, and it is nothing more than a political movement. The land has historically belonged to India, and it is your contention that it is a disputed land, and it is our contention that it belongs to us. The people are protesting against the government's apathy and the excesses of the security agencies. That is valid, and has to be addressed by the government.

BTW, you need to read up some non-Indian/Pakistani of why and how we got independence. It was well-earned of course, but not as heroic as some may make it seem.

[deckingraj]

I just gave you the answer in the post. It helps if you read the entire thing, instead of chopping it up.

I have replied to that post as well...I chopped because there is certain aspects which is b/w you and poster whom you were replying...However i will keep it in mind next time....

'Azadi' means the 'Azadi to determine their future', whether as part of Pakistan, India or independent.

I don't want to repeat the same thing again and again....Being an Indian and following Kashmir politics from quite some time i can tell there is more definitions out there as well, for example - Being under Indian Rule, Being under Indian rule with greater Autonomy etc etc....I do agree that people especially in valley wants to decide on their own through plebiscite however there are scores of people who don't.....

It says that the Kashmiris are primarily leading the cause, and that the solution perhaps lies in a regional or district wise plebiscite, or something like the Chenab formula.

I can see you are more inclined of dividing state of Jammu and Kashmir. something which is unacceptable even to scores of separatist who are part of these stone pelting demonstrations....So i am not sure how you are assuming that this formulae will be acceptable to people of Jammu and Kashmir???

The people of Kashmir were never asked whether they wanted to be part of the Indian State, and therefore until they are allowed to vote in a plebiscite, they do not have the right to determine their future. I am unaware of which part of India you are from, but perhaps the people of your State did indeed in some way support Gandhi and Nehru's creation of India in 1947.

I am a sikh and from Punjab....I have repeatedly explained why plebiscite is complex and thinking that it can be carried out in today's world is just wishful thinking...

As far as Kashmiri's are concerned then people of Pakistan did not get a chance to choose if they want to be part of Pakistan or India, same is true with people of Bangladesh....Both My grandfather's are from Rawalpindi and they loved that place like anything, I remember them telling me stories about how beautiful lahore is even during heights of tentions b/w India and Pakistan...As far as i know they did not get a chance to decide where they want to stay via plebiscite....What do you want to say about that???? Scores of Muslims, Hindu's and Sikhs from across the country were not in favor of partition but it did happen and without any plebiscite...May i know why???? Rulers representing those people took decisions on their behalf and legalized the partition....In the same context ruler of Jammu and Kashmir legalized merger with India....Since there were conflicts on the Maharaja acceding J&K with India our PM promised a plebiscite however there were certain conditions which were not met(who is responsible i don't want to dwell on it)...Now ground reality has changed and plebiscite is not possible...Sooner people realize better it is for everybody....In short like people across Indian sub continent did not get a chance to decide where they want to stay the same way Kashmiri's did/will not get a chance to decide whom they want to stay with....Has India and Pak sticked to what was decided after 47 war Kashmiri's would have got that chance, now it is simply not possible...

Look Agno we can keep on showing lot of historic documents to each other, just to prove who is more right then other...However the best thing that can happen to this region is if people accept the ground realities....

And they are united in demanding the right to choose their destiny, what they end up choosing we will only know when a plebiscite is held. But once they have exercised that right, they will at least know that they were asked, and the majority chose a particular direction.

Again you are just talking about people in Valley....and no they are not united on this...It is amazing you consider to go for majority of people decision in valley but do not want to consider majority of people in state of Jammu and Kashmir....

Again, it is not Pakistan that has refused to return to the point we left off at. You do realize that at this point India and Pakistan could have very well been at an advanced stage of implementing these proposals, and reducing their respective militaries at the borders, instead of dealing with dozens dead and massive protests.

Yes i do, however do you realize this??? We came very close to the solving Kashmir but then what happened??? Surely political unstability in Pak is not India's fault, right??? This issue was the deal breaker....It is obvious GOI cannot go for a solution unless and until there is political stability in Pak and then mother of all terrorist attack and the whole dilly-dallying saga on top of it....

A long standing demand of the people of G-B could be implemented at it be finally integrated into Pakistan as its fifth province.

that was sweet...One of the Long standing demand of people of J&K is to have one state and not separate provinces....Anyways can you please share some plebiscite information on G&B?? Also was Rest of Kashmiri's POV considered???

Of course that would also mean that Indians would have to be called out on their canard of 'its in the Indian constitution and therefore there can be no plebiscite', since the Indian constitution refers to territories held by Pakistan and China, and it will have to be amended to reflect that reality.

Not sure what you mean by that...can you please elaborate a bit more on this???

[NWO]

I have said this before and saying it again. At that time there were 105000 british and 350 million Indians but here at most 3 million(if you consider whole valley anti India) against 1.2 billion united Indian. So you can only dream about independence.

I wouldn't count it out just yet. Just look at the Taliban. They should have been dealt with long ago due to numerical and technological inferiority.

[anurag_singh]

I wouldn't count it out just yet. Just look at the Taliban. They should have been dealt with long ago due to numerical and technological inferiority.

There is difference between afghanistan and India. In worst case we can follow China model(Xingiyang, Tibet) easily but that is not democratic way. However that is our last resort to save territorial integrity.

[S_O_C_O_M]

Syed Ali Gilani release fresh Protest Programme

Written by KMS
Tuesday, 14 September 2010 21:15



Srinagar, September 14, 2010: The Chairman of All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) Syed Ali Gilani, spearheading the ongoing "Quit Kashmir Movement", has issued a fresh 10-day protest programme.

According to the programme, there would be complete shutdown on September 16 (Thursday) and peaceful protests after every prayers. On September 17 (Friday), there would be again a shutdown. On the day people of Bandipora and Baramulla have been urged to march to Palahalan Pattan while people of Ganderbal, Srinagar and Budgam would march to Humhama respectively.


People of districts falling in south Kashmir, will march towards Pampore and people of Kupwara have been urged to register protest at their district headquarter.

On September 18 (Saturday) there will be complete shutdown. All the people, who are computer literate, will register their protest on different social network sites, especially facebook. Peaceful protests will continue throughout the day. On September 19 (Sunday), there will be no shutdown. “On the day all the business establishments, banks, educational institutions and private institutions will remain open. People will buy essential commodities.

Syed Ali Gilani has called for "UN office Chalo" on September 20 (Monday). People will march towards the United Nations Office at Sonawar and will give a memorandum to remind them that people of Occupied State of Jammu & Kashmir (OSJK) want that UN resolutions should be adopted without any further delay.

On September 21 (Tuesday) there will be complete shutdown. On the day people should give reminder of "Quit Kashmir Movement" to all the military establishments and other security camps through peaceful protests up to the destinations of army establishments. On September 22 (Wednesday) there will be no shutdown. On September 23 (Thursday) Gilani has called for a shutdown to express solidarity with the political prisoner and those arrested during the past three months.

On September 24, Friday there will be shutdown and peaceful protests against the desecration of Quran. On September 25 (Saturday) and September 26 (Sunday), there will be complete shutdown. On the days, people will carry out the cleanliness drive in their respective localities from 11:00am to 1:00pm. From Nimaz-e-Zuhr to Nimaz-e-Asr, people will observe the peaceful protests. There would be no shutdown from 7:00pm to 7:00am.

In Srinagar, after the killing of nineteen youth by Indian police, yesterday, strict curfew continued today in all major towns including Srinagar, Budgam, Chadoora, Ganderbal, Sopore, Pampore, Kupwara, Handwara, Bandipore and Poonch. Indian forces fired upon protesters at Khanpora in Baramulla, killing two civilians and injuring several others. One youth injured in firing in Tangmarg yesterday succumbed to his injuries, today.


Clashes occurred in Kishtwar leaving half a dozen injured. People battled with Indian police also in Bootmen Colony, Chadoora, Sumbal and Tahab. An angry mob attacked battalion headquarters of paramilitary forces on the outskirts of Srinagar, this morning. Srinagar airport was completely closed, today, due to which flights could not operate. Locals in Tangmarg area said that over one hundred youth have disappeared since yesterday in the area. The occupying Indian authorities banned telecast of Pakistani TV channels in Occupied Kashmir.

Convenor of APHC, AJK, Chapter, Mehmood Ahmad Saghar in a statement condemned the killings of Kashmiris by Indian police. In Geneva, Kashmiri delegates, Altaf Hussain Wani and Sardar Ajmad Yousaf in their addresses to the 15th session of the United Nations Human Rights Council urged the international community to take cognisance of the grave human rights situation in Occupied State of Jammu & Kashmir.

On the other hand, Donna Guest, Deputy Director of Amnesty International's Asia-Pacific programme in a statement has urged Indian authorities to carry out an effective investigation into a video clip that appears to show detainees in OSJK being stripped and humiliated by forces.

Another Hurriyat leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq has demanded India to stop killings of innocent Kashmiris and take solid steps for resolution of the Kashmir dispute in accordance with Kashmiris’ aspirations. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq in a statement issued in Srinagar said that the people of OSJK were demanding their birthright of Self-Determination but the Indian forces were showering bullets and teargas shells on peaceful demonstrators.

He also appealed the international human rights organisations to put pressure on India to stop continued killings of innocent Kashmiris and amicably resolve the dispute so that permanent peace could be established in South Asia.

Kashmir delegates, Altaf Hussain Wani and Sardar Amjad Yousaf Khan in their addresses to the inaugural session of the 15th session of the United Nations Human Rights Council have urged the council to take cognisance of the human rights situation in OSJK. Altaf Hussain Wani in his addresses, while commending the report of the High Commissioner, said that human rights situation in OSJK was of no less importance than the situations discussed in the report of the High Commissioner.


He said that though the report covered wide range of issues and situation around the globe but it failed to address the human rights situation of OSJK where the peaceful demonstrators were being killed.

He said that strict grid of curfew continued for last three months, more than 70 people, mostly children were killed by Indian forces during peaceful demonstrations organised to express their demand for end to the continued culture of impunity and press their demand for right to self determination.

Sardar Amjad Yousaf Khan, Executive Director fo Kashmir Institute of International Relations, in his address said that India had given wide range of powers to its troops in OSJK by enacting Armed Forces Special Powers Act which provided them impunity for the crimes they were committing in the occupied territory.

He said that the High Commissioner’s report failed to mention the human rights situation of OSJK. He said that OSJK was Under Siege for last three months, which had caused serious humanitarian problem there, besides Killing more than 90 people.

The Kashmiri leader said that the population of Kashmir valley was facing shortage of food, medico especial life saving drugs. He urged the council and Human rights Commissioner to appoint a special representative for Jammu and Kashmir to assess the human rights situation.

Syed Ali Gilani release fresh Protest Programme

[Aeronaut]

Good luck with mr gillani

[mughaljee]

Brother's , we are with you,
Insha allah you will win.

[mughaljee]

New death toll is 81.

[parasite]

Flag upside down......it's insulting......at least they should have done it properly.....

ontopic--> Shiv sena are not going to be threatened by such incidences....such incidences give them excuses to promote their agenda......

A peaceful protest is desirable and highly acceptable......

[EjazR]

Malerkotla heals, but Jammu tense

After Sunday’s violence, Malerkotla, a predominantly Muslim town 60 km from Ludhiana, witnessed a fine example of communal harmony. Amjad Ali, the CMD of Sohrab Group of Industries and a member of one of the oldest families of the area, came forward to repair the damaged church and install new furniture. His efforts ensured that an all religion prayer meeting could be held there at 3 pm on Tuesday.

However, the situation was not normal in Jammu even as the state government tried to dispel rumours about burning of Koran in the US. For the second day on Tuesday, the administration imposed curfew in Poonch. A dozen people, including policemen, were injured when the latter lobbed teargas shells to disperse a group of stone pelters who allegedly attacked the police station at Kishtwar.

Ali, who heads a textile mill, a spinning mill and an export house, said, “Sunday’s incident is a blot on our town and it is the duty of Muslims to come forward and ensure that the wounds are healed at the earliest. I travel all over the world for my business and wherever I go I tell people that in Malerkotla we live in peace. But what happened on Sunday was shameful. Getting the church repaired and restarted is my way of repentance.”

Meanwhile, complete bandh was observed at Mandi, Surankote and Mendhar, with people holding demonstrations and taking out rallies against alleged desecration of their holy book in the US. At some places, they burnt the effigies of US president Barrack Obama and Florida pastor Terry Jones.

Complete bandh was observed in adjoining Rajouri district, with Muslims taking out a protest rally at the district headquarters and Hindu leaders joining the rally to condemn the alleged burning of Koran. The situation was the same in Doda and Ramban districts, which observed near total bandh. Reports of demonstrations came in from Lohang in Kathua district and some parts of Jammu city.

[EjazR]

'Sit Tight And Do Nothing': India's Nero Policy Towards Kashmir

How does one explain New Delhi’s approach towards the ongoing violence in Kashmir valley? Though the PM and his Home Minister have been looking for a consensus and an elusive starting point, there have been clear formulations from the mainstream in J&K, on where New Delhi could begin to arrest the current round of violence. Omar Abdullah has demanded the removal of AFSPA, if not from the entire Kashmir valley, at least from select urban towns. Even many retired police officials agree to the same. Intellectuals from J&K have been asking for a debate on autonomy; Manmohan Singh himself has constituted a working group on this issue, which has given its recommendations.

What is New Delhi waiting for? There was an expectation, that there would be a special Eid package for J&K. Unfortunately, all that New Delhi could do was to convene the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), which could not reach an understanding, even on the AFSPA. Now, it has been decided that there will be an All Parties Meeting. If the government could not reach a consensus within the CCS, will it be able to generate one at the All Parties meeting? Or is that a strategy, towards shifting the blame? New Delhi may not be playing the lyre and enjoying the situation, as the legendary Nero did, but is sitting tight and doing nothing.

While many criticize New Delhi, that the central government does not have a long-term policy vis-à-vis J&K, they ignore, that not to have a policy, in itself, is a policy. So, don’t blame Manmohan Singh and P Chidmabaram, for not unveiling a policy towards Kashmir. That precisely, is their policy – not to have one.

Such a policy, though it seems bizarre, is not totally irrational, from New Delhi’s perspective. Many inside the government and even in the security establishment believe, that the violence in Kashmir valley will subside subsequently. True, violence in the last few years has become seasonal and cyclical in Kashmir valley. Amarnath land crisis, Shopian **** case, and other such events have increased the public anger in the valley, only to subside subsequently. So, the calculation perhaps today in New Delhi is that this round of violence will also subside. So sit tight. Do Nothing. Violence will come down automatically.

Perhaps, it will. Perhaps this round of violence will continue till the end of the Commonwealth Games in New Delhi. Perhaps even extend till Obama’s visit in November. After that it may subside. So, why pursue any strategy, that will result in being seen as a compromise or worse, leading to further violence?

Sounds irrationally rational. But does this augur well, in how New Delhi is viewed by the others? Forget about those who are throwing stones; how do the others in J&K and those outside see this? What kind of a message, is being projected? Don’t people in Kashmir valley and outside see this as an abdication of responsibility, to ensure order and governance? Don’t the security forces, especially the local police and the CRPF see this, as shifting the responsibility to them, while the political leadership remains frozen?

Perhaps, there is a conspiracy by the Hurriyat either on its own or with some tacit understanding with the PDP, as New Delhi may want to believe. The Hurriyat has been looking for an opportunity to revive its fortune. And Mehbooba Mufti cannot wait till the next elections to overthrow Omar Abdullah’s government. Hence, the present violence perhaps is the conspiracy of two opportunists.

Agreed. What should New Delhi do then, other than considering this as a conspiracy and cyclical problem? If indeed, it is both, then what measures could New Delhi pursue to prevent them from being cyclical? If in 2008, there was an overwhelming response to the elections in Kashmir valley, what measures could New Delhi adopt to convert the same into a permanent peace?

Unfortunately, New Delhi seems to believe that with the 2008 elections, problems in Kashmir Valley have been resolved; whatever happened or is happening after that, (Amarnath land crisis, Shopian ****, Muzaffarabad Chalo movement, and now the mass protests) are perhaps seen as an aberrations and temporary setbacks. Demands to initiate a debate on autonomy, AFSPA and demilitarization and working group reports were thrown in the dustbin.
The only positive outcome in the recent CCS meeting was the statement, that there is a governance deficit in J&K. True, but why blame only Omar? What has been the role of New Delhi in imposing accountability in J&K? Why is that the developmental funds, sanctioned by New Delhi never moved beyond Srinagar and Jammu? Why did the district administration and the Panchayati Raj institutions fail to deliver? New Delhi has to take the blame, in failing to impose accountability, therefore ensure good governance. Blaming Omar for the governance deficit is being hypocritical.

All is not lost. Even now, a beginning could be made with restarting the debate on the working group reports, autonomy and accountability. A “sit tight-do nothing-problem will subside on its own” approach does not augur well for a country, which is staking its claim at the international level. People will respect those States, which take initiative, share responsibility and are willing to fail. Fear of failure, should not prevent a State from taking decisions. At least those States which want to become a part of the UNSC.





D Suba Chandran, Deputy Director, IPCS, may be reached at subachandran@gmail.com
IPCS

The Institute of Peace & Conflict Studies conducts independent research on conventional and non-conventional security issues in the region and shares its findings with policy makers and the public. It provides a forum for discussion with the strategic community on strategic issues and strives to explore alternatives. Moreover, it works towards building capacity among young scholars for greater refinement of their analyses of South Asian security.

Through close interaction with leading strategic thinkers, former members of the the Indian Administrative Service, the Foreign Service and the Armed Forces, the academic community as well as the media, IPCS has contributed to the strategic discourse in India. Its Executive Committee reflects a mix of experience and expertise and is currently headed by Mr. Eric Gonsalves, former Indian Foreign Secretary to the Government.

[Areesh]

Islamabad—Following urgent steps have been taken by the Prime Minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir Sardar Attique Ahmed Khan to sensitize the international community as well as mobilizing domestic political environment:

1. The Prime Minister moved for an urgent exclusive AJK Assembly session on ***, seeking parliamentary parties in-House consensus to respond to the deteriorating *** situation

2. Announced holding of APCs – one on Kashmiri political level in Muzaffarabad and other on national level in Islamabad in the first week of October, 2010.

3. He sent urgent communications to the Islamabad-based ambassadors of permanent member-countries of the US Security Council.

4. Has sought time from the Islamabad-based embassies to lead Kashmiri delegation to brief the ambassadors on *** deteriorating situation.

5. He is leading a Kashmiri delegation for participation in the annual meetings of the OIC Foreign Ministers in the UN headquarters in New York on September 22 and 24, 2010.

6. Announced public protests/rallies on Friday, September 17, 2010 by Kashmiris in and outside of the country to demonstrate solidarity with the struggling Kashmiris in ***.

7. Arranging truckloads of food aid for occupied Kashmir through the agency of International Red Cross Committee. The consignments can pass through agreed crossing points on the Line of Control. The food will be distributed irrespective of religious/political affiliations as a 5-month long curfew has driven the occupied Kashmiris to the brink of starvation.

8. Arranging a special food aid flotilla for ***. That will also pass through agreed crossing points.

9. Has sent appeals to the Islamabad-based ambassadors of five permanent member countries of the UN Security Council drawing their attention towards worsening situation of human rights, Kashmir youth killings by the Indian Death Squads under the garb of Indian army sent specially by New Delhi to ***.

10. Gave TV interviews to emphasize to the national and international communities to speak against Indian savagery in ***.

11. Launched international appeals for urgent probe into the killings of innocent Kashmiri youth by the Indian Death Squads in ***.

12. Moved the Kashmiri-origin parliamentary members of the European countries to lodge criminal cases against India in the International Court of Justice.

Attique takes urgent measures

[Donatello]

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Needle in a haystack..or light at the end of the tunnel

Whichever you prefer, i guess!