Kashmir: News & Discussions

[UnitedPak]

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While certain members seem to be concerned about Pakistan only, you have to remember that Kashmiris are prisoners in their own homes. I dont know about you, but living in a tiny state with 700 000 Indian troops cannot be their ideal lifestyle decision. I guess I wouldnt be bothered about this if India hadnt turned Kashmir into a massive prison.
India has more troops in Kashmir than Pakistan has in its entire army.
Anyone with a brain can see its nothing to do with fear of invasion, its more about oppressing Kashmiris.

I for one am not bothered who Kashmiris decide to join, as long as the decision is theirs entirely. If they want their own state, Pakistan should back them up.
But its obvious they would vote for Pakistan, hence India has blocked any attempts at a vote taking place in Kashmir for 60 years.

I guess a big thank you is in order to the UN, who were meant to enforce this vote. The UNs strategy is all too familiar, cause trouble and bloodshed, then leave without restoring order.

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Read the UN resolution!

Again, we go off reinventing the wheel!!

As far as Kashmir being a huge prison, some could say the same for NWFP, FATA et al?

Perceptions.

[IceCold]

Its useless to debate whether india would let go or would not or perhaps what are motives behind india not letting kashmir go? The fact of the matter is that we pakistanies need to realize that the time when we could do something about it is long gone, and we did not do a damn about it thanks to our internal politics, now its a different story specially after 9/11. The only solution to kashmir issue was by means of force, since now this option cannot be materialized, to expect that india will accept any solution other then kashmir being part of the indian federation would be like living in a fools paradise.

[dabong1]

AJK is not Pakistani territory to begin with.

Pakistan should let it go for the sake of settling the Kashmir issue with India.

Why should it.........why dont we have a vote and see if the people of AJK want to join the federation of pakistan,the union of india or if they want to free of both.
I am certain if a vote was carried out the people of AJK would join pakistan.

[dabong1]

You see mate the problem lies herein ,Pakistanis have sentiments for Kashmir and wish its independence but our view is different, here we believe all Indians have rights over Kashmir just like Kashmiris themselves so why would we let go of something we believe is rightful to us and are not under pressure to do so? Frankly we dont care bout AJK we would not even mind if it joins with Pakistan but we Indians have lived with Kashmir for long and believe that every Indian including Kashmiris have righjt over each and everey territory of India , the same sentiment shared by you and many Pakistanis on Baloch issue holds true for us too

You a mistaken if you think kashmiri people think that have right over india.....no we dont....you have no rights over us and we have no rights over you.

If we loved india so much why have over a 100'000 people been killed fighting for there freedom from indian oppression.

Sorry we have never been with you indians and never want to be in the future.

JEHAD FOR PEACE.....

[dabong1]

A cross between hamas and hezbollha is what is needed in kashmir.
Targeted killing of indian occupation officals in kashmir and attacks on indian proper are what are needed.
A few well placed attacks on the indian military are the call of the day.

The indians can back and fund suicide missions in pakistan,i am sure we can do the same.

[ak56]

While certain members seem to be concerned about Pakistan only, you have to remember that Kashmiris are prisoners in their own homes. I dont know about you, but living in a tiny state with 700 000 Indian troops cannot be their ideal lifestyle decision. I guess I wouldnt be bothered about this if India hadnt turned Kashmir into a massive prison.
India has more troops in Kashmir than Pakistan has in its entire army.
Anyone with a brain can see its nothing to do with fear of invasion, its more about oppressing Kashmiris.
I for one am not bothered who Kashmiris decide to join, as long as the decision is theirs entirely. If they want their own state, Pakistan should back them up.
But its obvious they would vote for Pakistan, hence India has blocked any attempts at a vote taking place in Kashmir for 60 years.

I guess a big thank you is in order to the UN, who were meant to enforce this vote. The UNs strategy is all too familiar, cause trouble and bloodshed, then leave without restoring order.

I am talking about the fear of the Hindu king who joined the princly state or Kashmir with India, not the current GOI.

Yes, even most of our Army is also located in Kashmir.

India has indeed conducted vote, whether it was rigged or not we can never know.

What I mean to say is, let India do whatever it wants with the ***. We are not only spending more money for defence but even our vast pool of demographic resources in terms of huge army and scientists who if worked for a cause of developmnt can transform Pakistan into a developed country with first class trains, transport, world class farming, and companies who will generate us lot of foreign exchange. But all this will not happen if we dont change our views about Kashmir and enimosity with India. This also should be reciprocated by India, which I am confident will happen if we declare *** as part of India and strike peace before war strikes us.

[ak56]

While certain members seem to be concerned about Pakistan only, you have to remember that Kashmiris are prisoners in their own homes. I dont know about you, but living in a tiny state with 700 000 Indian troops cannot be their ideal lifestyle decision. I guess I wouldnt be bothered about this if India hadnt turned Kashmir into a massive prison.
India has more troops in Kashmir than Pakistan has in its entire army.
Anyone with a brain can see its nothing to do with fear of invasion, its more about oppressing Kashmiris.

I for one am not bothered who Kashmiris decide to join, as long as the decision is theirs entirely. If they want their own state, Pakistan should back them up.
But its obvious they would vote for Pakistan, hence India has blocked any attempts at a vote taking place in Kashmir for 60 years.

I guess a big thank you is in order to the UN, who were meant to enforce this vote. The UNs strategy is all too familiar, cause trouble and bloodshed, then leave without restoring order.

Why do you think so.

The bangladesis supported the Indian army to fight against their own mother country to get the so called freedom.

But did the kashmiri's fight for us during 1965 or 1971. They were just mute spectators when our brave soldiers sacrificed their lives because they thought they are saving kashmiris. This is one more reason why we should stop bothering about the Kashmiris. Let them decide their own fate, whether good or bad.

[indiapakistanfriendship]

You a mistaken if you think kashmiri people think that have right over india.....no we dont.

Its your call either exercise your rights or dont , no one can force you.

.you have no rights over us and we have no rights over you.

Oh yeah , hell yeah we have rights over you and the land you are sitting in(***) , it belongs to the federation of India and any citizen of India has rights over it, if you want come south and settle down in Tamilnadu , who bothers , start business here who bothers we have rights over each and every bit of Indian Kashmir irespective of person being Telugu or Tamil of Bihari to Naga to Assamese. Period and we wont bother to shoot down anyone taking our rights away . period here too.

If we loved india so much why have over a 100'000 people been killed fighting for there freedom from indian oppression.

Well then you are the laziest bunch of freedom fighters I have ever seen, have you for petes sake seen the freedom and liberation struglle in major conflict zones, you guys are not even close.
Fight your war instead of sacrificing Pakistanis as lambs for your freedom struggle, why should they die or why should their nation spend millions for your sake.

Sorry we have never been with you indians and never want to be in the future.

JEHAD FOR PEACE.....

You have a choice dont you , If you are isgruntled you can either leave India, live here disgruntled all your life or realise the reality and move on.

A cross between hamas and hezbollha is what is needed in kashmir.

What prevented this deadly combination from becoming true for fifty years or a good decade ago when the conflict was at its peak.

Targeted killing of indian occupation officals in kashmir and attacks on indian proper are what are needed.
A few well placed attacks on the indian military are the call of the day.

Blah blah .. tried and tested for a long period and failed miserably.

The indians can back and fund suicide missions in pakistan,i am sure we can do the same.

Why would we fund suicide mission in Pakistan(if true), why should we give horese arse to what is happening in Balochistan or NWFP, we do it as a counter measure or tit fot tat for Pakistans involvement in Kashmir issue. Pakistani leadership has begun realising that it is futile supporting your cause and sacrificing its people for you and has shed bellicosity and has started talking peace, so only in your whims and fancy would Pkaistni government up its ante. Frankly Kashmir is the sick man of Asia and I hope we two nations can solve it and move on .

[dabong1]

Its your call either exercise your rights or dont , no one can force you..

The only "rights" we want are the ones promised to us by the UN.

Oh yeah , hell yeah we have rights over you and the land you are sitting in(***) , it belongs to the federation of India and any citizen of India has rights over it, if you want come south and settle down in Tamilnadu , who bothers , start business here who bothers we have rights over each and every bit of Indian Kashmir irespective of person being Telugu or Tamil of Bihari to Naga to Assamese. Period and we wont bother to shoot down anyone taking our rights away . period here too...

So can you as a non kashmir resident buy land in kashmir...?
A kashmiri on either side of the LOC can buy land in india and pakistan but non kashmiri can not buy land on either side of the border in kashmir.

Well then you are the laziest bunch of freedom fighters I have ever seen, have you for petes sake seen the freedom and liberation struglle in major conflict zones, you guys are not even close..

Well we had over a half a million indians tied down for over a decade and made you spend billions......you should thank osama/bush that the 9/11 took place and the influx of afghan/arab/punjabi veterans of the afghan war did not flood into kashmir.
We had a decade of conflict and and then the peace process under mushy that has led to nothing but backtracking from the indians.
Between 15/20 years of conflict with actual military struggle in its proper sense over a 10 years period.
How long did it take the vietnamese,chinese ect to win there war against occupation forces..?
We have not even reached half way yet compared to the above.

Fight your war instead of sacrificing Pakistanis as lambs for your freedom struggle, why should they die or why should their nation spend millions for your sake....

Becauce where brothers and one nation......pakistan can only be complete once kashmir is part of the pakistan federation.

You have a choice dont you , If you are isgruntled you can either leave India, live here disgruntled all your life or realise the reality and move on.....

Choice.......i also have the choice to fight for my freedom.

What prevented this deadly combination from becoming true for fifty years or a good decade ago when the conflict was at its peak......

The thing that prevented the palestinians from having hamas since the invasion of israel is the same reason kashmir did not have a hamas like organisation over the same period.
The kashmir freedom struggle was drawn down to see if the peace process could work and also the 9/11 attacks was not a good time to be backing military movements.....things have changed.

Blah blah .. tried and tested for a long period and failed miserably.

How wrong you are....it just started to get going before the 9/11 attacks and then the "peace process" kicked in.

Why would we fund suicide mission in Pakistan(if true), why should we give horese arse to what is happening in Balochistan or NWFP, we do it as a counter measure or tit fot tat for Pakistans involvement in Kashmir issue. Pakistani leadership has begun realising that it is futile supporting your cause and sacrificing its people for you and has shed bellicosity and has started talking peace, so only in your whims and fancy would Pkaistni government up its ante. Frankly Kashmir is the sick man of Asia and I hope we two nations can solve it and move on .

You have had your chance to be fair and reach some sort of an accord with the pak govt.....mushy offered you almost everything including putting the UN resolution to one side......india did move inch.
It shows to all of us that the only way to get kashmir is through a military struggle.

[indiapakistanfriendship]

The only "rights" we want are the ones promised to us by the UN.

As I said its your call, the UN does not seem to care , again its your call , frankly we don't care.

So can you as a non kashmir resident buy land in kashmir...?
A kashmiri on either side of the LOC can buy land in india and pakistan but non kashmiri can not buy land on either side of the border in kashmir.

A stupid rule and an archaic one, I dont give horse crap as to what Nehru and his foolish policy has to say maybe you would have been happy if we changed the demographics of the region like the way Chinese do to Tibet.

Anyways I dont plan to buy land in Kashmir , too far away from home but I can visit srinagar, go for trekking or mountain climbing in ladhak and I dont need your permission do I?

Well we had over a half a million indians tied down for over a decade and made you spend billions.....

Its a huge tract of land with lots of water flowing and we dont mind spending millions or keeping a million men on standby , we have the money, the resource . Its my tax money and I am happy to spend it.

Before thumping your chest those good men and billions spent are in response to Pakistani millitary threat of invasion so dont dream that your Jihad has achieved it. Lets see where your jihad heads the moment support from Pakistan ceases.

.you should thank osama/bush that the 9/11 took place and the influx of afghan/arab/punjabi veterans of the afghan war did not flood into kashmir.

Even befor 9/11 Kashmir confilt was what I would term "low intensity" one when compared to major international struggles, so it would have not made difference.

Also India has upped its ante aginst the insurgency starting from fencing the border to actively engaging the millitants and their support infrastructure so 9/11 would not have made mush of a differnce.

We had a decade of conflict and and then the peace process under mushy that has led to nothing but backtracking from the indians.

Nope a lots of Indians are happy so are a lot of Pakistanis , why should we die for your cause which is dead anyways.

Between 15/20 years of conflict with actual military struggle in its proper sense over a 10 years period.
How long did it take the vietnamese,chinese ect to win there war against occupation forces..?
We have not even reached half way yet compared to the above.

Yes true , they were willing to fight and fought their own war , they rose up to the ocassion and fought for it not sacrificing other country men for their cause. Again and again I repeat , the conflict in Kashmir is not even close to the likes of major regional conflicts elsewhere so comparing with them is a moot point when you are lazy to fight in the first place .

Becauce where brothers and one nation......pakistan can only be complete once kashmir is part of the pakistan federation.

Hmmmm, whatever , let Pakistan do whatever it wants with AJK who cares whether it is complete or incomplete. Maybe you should say this to Pakistani establishment who sadly dont share your view.

I think the major break came during the Parliment attack which resulted in India mobilizing its troops for a full fledged war, something whaich Pakistan tried to avoid( and never expected) but keep India engaging through insurgency ,but after operation Parakram saner minds there realised that a full blown conflict is simply not worth it especially in this nuclear age.

Choice.......i also have the choice to fight for my freedom.

Yup fight for it , I dont think you shall be quiet successfull , history supports me , anyways all the best to ya.

The thing that prevented the palestinians from having hamas since the invasion of israel is the same reason kashmir did not have a hamas like organisation over the same period.
The kashmir freedom struggle was drawn down to see if the peace process could work and also the 9/11 attacks was not a good time to be backing military movements.....things have changed.

Only wishes , eat this Pakistan has realised that they will not simply keep fighting for your cost , their cost benifit analysis does not allow them also they have several problems in their backyard . Thy have realised that it is best to maintain status quo and live with peace. It s a winwin situation for both Pakistan and India , we get to keep IK, Pakistan gets to keep AJK plus we can divert our resources to other fruitful things and ordinary Kashmiris can study , eat and sleep happily.

How wrong you are....it just started to get going before the 9/11 attacks and then the "peace process" kicked in

Dont blame 9/11 for your failure , insurgency was at its peak agood decade ago and all you mentioned happened before but failed to achieve nothing.

You have had your chance to be fair and reach some sort of an accord with the pak govt.....mushy offered you almost everything including putting the UN resolution to one side......india did move inch.

Nope completely wrong, we have moved from claiming AJK to recognizing LOC as border.

t shows to all of us that the only way to get kashmir is through a military struggle.

Whatever bring em on I say.

[UnitedPak]

@AK56

This is about Kashmiris being oppressed and refused their freedom. Historically Kashmir, Punjab and Sindh have always been Muslim majority states with a distinct identity different from the rest of Indians. Kashmiris are living in a police state, and its our responsibility to make their voices heard.

Not to mention how their land is currently being used to threaten the rest of Pakistan with threats of blocking the major rivers to Pakistan.
If you were in any doubt before, just understand that this is a major survival issue for Pakistan. We cant afford to let this go.

One way or another, Kashmir will be settled. Either the UN can decide to enforce the vote they promised 60 years ago, or we fund more separatist movements in India so Kashmiri separatists are the least of their problems. (Assam, Khalistan, Mao etc)

I am not the one to throw around religious fundi remarks, but Muslims are being oppressed by a foreign Government (hope you werent in doubt about that), its our duty to help them out especially when they are our own people. Fighting is Fighting, through a 700 000 troop army or Militants. There is no "unjustified" way of doing this.
If anything is Unjustified, its the mass graves they find in Kashmir, the Rapes and Murders of women, and the terrorising of the population.

Regards.

[Vinod2070]

UnitedPak, i depends on what history one is looking at. For you, history may start at a certain point, but others may have much longer memories.

The history of the lands that you talked about is much older than the history of Islam and it was a glorious history.

There may be people who want these areas to revert to that pristine (as per their thinking) glory before these lands were invaded by invaders coming fro the west.

[genmirajborgza786]

AJK is not Pakistani territory to begin with.

Pakistan should let it go for the sake of settling the Kashmir issue with India.

salam sir
NO SIR with respect
sorry chief but the above mentioned theory is highly dangerous for the very sovereignty of Pakistan my family had fought for Pakistan and we saw '71 with our own wet eyes so no more land let going for Pakistan no never Pakistan from makran to Karakorum be it Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan , NWFP , Northern Areas & Azad Kashmir , ( Pakistani control area in siechen near the actual ground position line ) all of the 880,000 sq km is here to stay .

Pakistan Zindabad

[Vinod2070]

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The time for redrawing of borders is gone. The earlier it is realized, the better it would be for all.

Pakistan is in no position to force a border change and India is not interested. The realistic option is to give Kashmiris the autonomy they want without trying to change the borders.