Iron Fist active protection system

[Developereo]

Originally Posted by nightcrawler

Documentary that I have seen at Discovery proves that a single merkava tank was equipped with atleast 3 of such systems thus its a naive assumption tht u can trigger all of three Fist blocks using one dummy. And even if u triggered the Fist using dummy; even though the tank is now a sitting duck but as ur position is exposed u will be the running duck!!

Each dummy would only trigger one defensive shot. You can fire multiple dummies until you exhaust the defenses.

Also, please read the last paragraph of my post again. That is why I mentioned remote control dummy launches, precisely so you wouldn't give away your position.

[Black Blood]

Originally Posted by rizhussain44

My pleasure.

Coming to your analysis.. I didn't get how it would be beneficial to hit a tank from opposite sides. You are right in saying that a trophy system can take care of only one side but that's why the makers plan to deploy multiples of these, probably 4, one to cover each side of the tank. If that's the case then only one side should be targeted, first to neutralize the trophy defense of that side and then to hit the tank from that side.

Following is from the same source that i quoted before...
"Once it fires, that side of the vehicle is vulnerable. Which brings up another shortcoming: the Trophy can only be mounted to protect one axis. This means officials would have to mount multiple missile systems on every vehicle."

Source : Trophy Active Protection System

I Agree thank you.

[arsalanaslam123]

Originally Posted by Vassnti

Always loved the term minimal colateral damage, it isnt much reasurance if you happen to be the minimal one.

I did wonder seeing the most common attack against an IDF AFV is a 12year old with a rock what counts as an incoming projectile?

well dude we are pakistanis and our men are not afraid of death, neither we are in a position to absolutely eliminate it. even theost advanced technologies have some drawbacks and to be the best you can just minimize them,, if you know of a perfect system other then nature do let us know!!

and yes this is what i always call as propaganda,, IDF need a hard kill system on there machines to protect them from incomming rocks whereas if hezboallah buys a 9 mm pistol it is terrorism!!
what do you have to say about this???

regards!

[arsalanaslam123]

well the lack of fire power is also a major set back!!
currently the system comprises of two iron fist assemblies each carrying one projectile on each side. there is a possibility to make it a three barrel system so that it will have three projectile on each side. this will be the only solution to this problem. now some people may think that it can be neutralized if you fire a vlooey of dummies and then the actual RPG but bro do not take toe tank crew to sit ideal while you are firing dummies,,, i mean after one or at most the second shot, the tank crew will be aimig there 125 mm gun right at you,,,

regards!

[Black Blood]

Originally Posted by Developereo

Each dummy would only trigger one defensive shot. You can fire multiple dummies until you exhaust the defenses.

Also, please read the last paragraph of my post again. That is why I mentioned remote control dummy launches, precisely so you wouldn't give away your position.

Sir i do agree with that method , i have just thought of a new one !

what if the Iron fist's tracking system is jammed ?? you would never need to fire a dummy rocke , and all you would need is just a cheap anti armour rocket or an Rpg-7.

Please comment..

[arsalanaslam123]

another option to integrated hard kil protection to a battle group is to use two three gataling guns mounted on APCs and integrate them with the tank groups in battle formation. but sadly this is possible theoratically only as in actual war scenario your own men will be the first one to be hit by rounds fired from the gun!!
well friends, despite the facination of anti-missile shields we have to agree that no missile defence system is more 60 persent efficient in practical use!!

regards!
regards!

[Black Blood]

Originally Posted by arsalanaslam123

well the lack of fire power is also a major set back!!
currently the system comprises of two iron fist assemblies each carrying one projectile on each side. there is a possibility to make it a three barrel system so that it will have three projectile on each side. this will be the only solution to this problem. now some people may think that it can be neutralized if you fire a vlooey of dummies and then the actual RPG but bro do not take toe tank crew to sit ideal while you are firing dummies,,, i mean after one or at most the second shot, the tank crew will be aimig there 125 mm gun right at you,,,

regards!

There is a new Boy in the Town to able to take out Iron fist or any compareable technology.
The javelon:

Javelin is a fire-and-forget missile with lock-on before launch and automatic self-guidance. The system takes a top-attack flight profile against armored vehicles (attacking the top armor which is generally thinner) but can also take a direct-attack mode for use against buildings or fortifications. This missile also has the ability to engage helicopters in the direct attack mode.The missile reaches a peak altitude of 150m in top attack mode and 50m in direct fire mode. The missile is equipped with an imaging infrared seeker. The tandem warhead is fitted with two shaped charges: a precursor warhead to detonate any explosive reactive armor and a primary warhead to penetrate base armor. The Javelin was used in the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, with devastating effects on the Iraqi version of T-72s and Type 69 tanks.

The missile is ejected from the launcher so that it reaches a safe distance from the operator before the main rocket motors ignite; a "soft launch arrangement". This makes it harder to identify the launcher and allows it to be fired from within buildings; however, back-blast from the launch tube still poses a hazard to nearby personnel. Thanks to this "fire and forget" system, the firing team may move on as soon as the missile has been launched.

The missile system is carried most often by a two man team consisting of a gunner and an ammo bearer, although it can be fired with just one person if necessary. While the gunner aims and fires the missile, the ammo bearer scans for prospective targets and watches for threats such as enemy vehicles and troops.

YouTube - The FGM-148 JAVELIN anti-tank guided missile - Future Weapons (HQ)

YouTube - The FGM-148 JAVELIN anti-tank guided missile - Future Weapons (HQ)

Comment guys ....who's goin to develop this one for Pak Army ?

[arsalanaslam123]

it is not something that necessarily will take out the had kill protection systems, i man it can be shot down once identified/tracked. there are many things that you can do against such a protection system but still it is a good suite to give the vehicle a strong defense line.
perhasp if integrated with some sort of reldong ability it will form a good system. the world is moving ahead and next generation RPG ans anti-tank missiles may no longer be deceived by the old smoke generators and jamming suites!!

regards!

[arsalanaslam123]

as far as PA next main battle tanks are concerned they are not likely to equip themselves with such systems. the AlKhalid II is rumpred to have beter protection suite but this so not include an active hard kill protection system!
but so far that is all we need, we are going good in tanks and APC department al we need is to focus more is on anti-tank missiles both land and air launched,, something like hell fire or even better!!

regards!

[Black Blood]

Originally Posted by arsalanaslam123

as far as PA next main battle tanks are concerned they are not likely to equip themselves with such systems. the AlKhalid II is rumpred to have beter protection suite but this so not include an active hard kill protection system!
but so far that is all we need, we are going good in tanks and APC department al we need is to focus more is on anti-tank missiles both land and air launched,, something like hell fire or even better!!

regards!

I have heard Jevelen is been procured by PA , do you have any information sir?

[arsalanaslam123]

Originally Posted by Black blood

I have heard Jevelen is been procured by PA , do you have any information sir?

no brother, we do not have them!

regards!

[arsalanaslam123]

well friends here is the vedio of IronFist system that was telecasted at Discovery Channel. i hope you guys will find it intresting, if you do so dont forget to hit the thanks button!

4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download Iron Fist Active Armour Protection System .flv

regards!

[arsalanaslam123]

a very intrseting article aout the topic:

The Future is Now..

Israel continues to be a world leader in force protection. Details the last few months have been emerging that Iron Fist, our next generation APS to protect light & medium armored vehicles from RPGs, missiles, and even perhaps tank fired rounds is headed for deployment shortly. Israel is already a leader in the field with the Raphael developed and now seeing deployment to Merkava Mark 4 (and soon to be retrofitted to earlier versions of the tank) Trophy system.

The Trophy made world wide headlines with its ability to create what is described as a ‘virtual shield’ around the armored heavy vehicle, intercepting shaped charge penetrating hand held RPG rounds such as the Russian RPG 7 & RPG9 Vampyr. These weapons are in the hands of terror sponsoring nations & have been proliferated to terrorists & insurgents across the Middle East. These advanced penetrators have taken their toll on both Israeli Armor in Lebanon as well as American vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan. Next to IED road side bombs, this is the number one threat and killer of US Servicemen in these conflicts.

Iron Fist

While there is some overlap with Trophy, the Iron Fist was designed to protect lighter vehicles. It will be able to be fitted to troop movers like APCs and even lighter vehicles like the Humvee or supply trucks, providing protection against a larger number of threats beyond the RPG & anti tank missile..

Jane’s Defense: [...] in addition to the threat posed by hand-held anti-tank weapons and anti-tank guided missiles, Iron Fist is also being developed to counter high-velocity, long-rod penetrators fired by tank guns and to combat soft- as well as hard-kill anti-tank guided missiles. Moreover, it is also being developed to provide a basis for greater situation awareness and, consequently, for effective counter-fire against threat launchers.

Like other APSs, Iron Fist incorporates radar for threat detection and tracking. Its radar system has been developed by the Elta subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries, which has also developed the radar of the Rafael Trophy APS already in low-rate initial production for the Merkava Mk 4 tanks. The system includes four flat-panel antennas, which between them not only cover 360 degrees in azimuth but provide what is virtually a hemispherical coverage.

That’s fancy for front, rear, side & top protection from threats, fairly stunning. All this activity takes place in milliseconds with the system detecting & launching its interceptor which does not seek to detonate the incoming threat, but rather deflect it without its detonation reducing collateral damage to soldiers in, on, or around the vehicle. Think of the gunners on light vehicles like APCs or Humvees and the soldiers whom are often found around the vehicles using them as cover during movement & assault.

Defense-Update: Unlike other systems, the Iron Fist uses only the blast effect to defeat the threat, crushing the soft components of a shaped charge or deflecting and destabilizing the missile or kinetic rod in their flight. The interceptor is made of combustible envelope, fully consumed in the explosion. Without the risk of shrapnel, Iron Fist provides an effective, close-in protection for vehicles operating in dense, urban environment. The use of close proximity, rather than “hit to kill” mechanism avoids complex interception techniques and contributes to reduced cost.

One of the main advantages of the Iron Fist is its integration into routine operations. Its sensor provides essential input to situational awareness systems, based on ground radar surveillance, moving target detection, classification and tracking and motion detection. Furthermore, by loading other types of projectiles, such as non lethal, anti-personnel, smoke or illumination, the system can be used in support of routine operation.

This week comments by the IDF indicate that Iron Fist is headed for deployment to Israel’s newest NAMER (Tiger) APCs which are based on the Merkava Mark 4. This Discovery Channel Future Weapons video below gives an amazing overview of the system, and a beautiful look at its employment on a Namer.. Just one of dozens of examples of how Israeli technologies have and going forward will contribute and be employed safeguarding IDF troops and those of Israel’s allies.

Soft & Hard Kill: Next Gen ‘Iron Fist’ Active Protection System Headed For Deployment on Israeli Namer APCs (Video) | Hashmonean

regards!

[arsalanaslam123]

here are some more vedios of Iron Fist:

YouTube - Iron Fist Active Protection System - Discovery Future Weapons

YouTube - Iron Fist Active Protection System - Discovery Future Weapons

regards!

[arsalanaslam123]

a vedio about the working mechanism of Iron Fist:

YouTube - M113 Gavins + IronFist Active Protection = Tank Gun Proof

YouTube - M113 Gavins + IronFist Active Protection = Tank Gun Proof

i hope it will help you uderstand the system,,

regards!