How effective is baktar shikan against india's tank?

[MastanKhan]

Originally Posted by suleman yousaf

In case of a war between Pakistan and India,tank battles will play a major role in the outcome the result.Anti-tank missiles play a major part in the outcome.As baktar shikan is Pakistan army's main anti-tank missile, how affective is it going to be against India's tanks(like T-90,T-72,Arjun).To give the honorable members few pointers of the topic i will provide a bit information to you all
TANKS:
Arjun (tank) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
T-72 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ATGM:
HJ-8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I all comments but the discussion should not be biased and sense of nationalism should not undermine the facts nor insulting taunts will be tolerated.

Sir,

Let me make something clear----you are a new member---the purpose of this board is not for someone to look clever by posting a clever question---if you want to start up a thread---then you need to do some research and have your input and say---show us what you think and know and let the others take it further. Thankyou.

[skeptic9]

Baktar-Sikan is GenII/wire-guided that means the operator has to concentrate both on the target and at a same time on the tail-flash moreover he also has to control (joystick?) the missile to it's target. It may sound easy to some but keeping your focus on both markers when countermeasures are applied, got to be very difficult.

[taimikhan]

Originally Posted by skeptic9

Baktar-Sikan is GenII/wire-guided that means the operator has to concentrate both on the target and at a same time on the tail-flash moreover he also has to control (joystick?) the missile to it's target. It may sound easy to some but keeping your focus on both markers when countermeasures are applied, got to be very difficult.

Just for additional info, BakShk/HJ8 does not uses a joystick, its optically tracked, the firer has just to keep the target cross sight at the target, the missile flies itself to the target with correction provided by the fire-control sight mechanism. So not much of a problem in controlling the missile.

BakShk can be taken down with a Hard Kill APS system, but countering it with a soft kill APS would be difficult if it is not using a laser device to aim continuously at the target as the sensors of soft kill won't be able to pick anything alerting it to the incoming of the missile.

But for a BakShk to get a direct kill it needs a clear target with no visibility problems, even smoke screen or grenade launched by the tank can create visibility problem for the firer to keep his sights on the target.

[fatman17]

Originally Posted by skeptic9

^ Oh yes, my bad.

I thought HJ-9 was Baktar Shikan...is this the mainstream Pak anti-tank missile??? what are others??

HJ-9 and HJ-10 are on their way!

other ATGW are Bofors RBS70, TOW 1 and 11.

sorry guys RBS 70 is a manpad - my bad!

[skeptic9]

Originally Posted by taimikhan

Just for additional info, BakShk/HJ8 does not uses a joystick, its optically tracked, the firer has just to keep the target cross sight at the target, the missile flies itself to the target with correction provided by the fire-control sight mechanism. So not much of a problem in controlling the missile. .

OK. So it sounds like Wire-guided SACLOS as described in this article. The guidance system tries to minimize the disorientation of the Mg flash (?) from the cross-hair.

Top speed of BakSh seems to be only ~Mach 1, that must be an issue while penetrating modern armor, when encountered.

[taimikhan]

Originally Posted by skeptic9

OK. So it sounds like Wire-guided SACLOS as described in this article. The guidance system tries to minimize the disorientation of the Mg flash (?) from the cross-hair.

Top speed of BakSh seems to be only ~Mach 1, that must be an issue while penetrating modern armor, when encountered.

Well am not sure about the speed thing but this missile is rated pretty good in its class. Did perform very well against Serbian T-84 tanks in the Bosnian War, used by the Bosnian forces. Just for info, below is what is suspected to be a variant of HJ-8 being fired at a Chinese tank in a testing demonstration.

YouTube - china T-99 tank test

YouTube - china T-99 tank test

[fatman17]

taken from Jane's Armies - 2008.

Equipment in Service
Anti - Tank Weapons

Type: AT 11 Sniper / 9MM 119
Manufacturer: n/a
Role: Anti-Tank Guided Weapon
Original Total: 600 (part of the deal for T-80UD tanks)

Type: Green Arrow (PRC Red Arrow)
Manufacturer: n/a
Role: Anti-Tank Guided Weapon
Original Total: 700 (estimated)

Type: Baktar Shikan
Manufacturer: Institute of Industrial Control Systems (IICS)
Role: Anti-Tank Missile System
Original Total: 250

Type: TOW2A
Manufacturer: Raytheon
Role: Anti-Tank Missile System
Original Total: 1000

Type: 75mm Type 52
Manufacturer: n/a
Role: Recoilless Rifle
Original Total: n/a

Type: 106mm M40A1
Manufacturer: Pakistan Machine Tool Factory Ltd
Role: Recoilless Rifle
Original Total: n/a

Type: RPG 7 40mm
Manufacturer: Pakistan Machine Tool Factory Ltd
Role: Portable Rocket Launcher
Original Total: n/a

[Imran2006g]

Originally Posted by taimikhan

Well am not sure about the speed thing but this missile is rated pretty good in its class. Did perform very well against Serbian T-84 tanks in the Bosnian War, used by the Bosnian forces. Just for info, below is what is suspected to be a variant of HJ-8 being fired at a Chinese tank in a testing demonstration.

YouTube - china T-99 tank test

Was the tank killed...? Doesnt look like it

[Abu Zolfiqar]

all u need is a 150+ mm artillery shell filled with a lot of shaped charge explosives

for rs 10,000 u can make anti-tank IEDs



to answer the question, I think the Shikan would suffice in effectively destroying any advancing enemy indian armour.

[taimikhan]

Originally Posted by Abu Zolfiqar

all u need is a 150+ mm artillery shell filled with a lot of shaped charge explosives

for rs 10,000 u can make anti-tank IEDs

to answer the question, I think the Shikan would suffice in effectively destroying any advancing enemy indian armour.

Sir, IED work perfectly when used under the tank as armor there is pretty thin, but destroying it from the front or sideways, specially in today's modern time where you have hard & soft kill APS systems, you need a combination of very good ATGMs, specially with top attack mode. As more APS systems come online, for ATGMs to do their work will become difficult.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

very true....i was just trying to make a point


I'm pretty impressed with Raytheon/L.M. FGM-148 Javelin.

a bit too cost prohibitive i think, but indeed a good fire and forget system.

YouTube - The FGM-148 JAVELIN anti-tank guided missile - Future Weapons (HQ)

YouTube - The FGM-148 JAVELIN anti-tank guided missile - Future Weapons (HQ)

[taimikhan]

Originally Posted by Abu Zolfiqar

very true....i was just trying to make a point


I'm pretty impressed with Raytheon/L.M. FGM-148 Javelin.

a bit too cost prohibitive i think, but indeed a good fire and forget system.


YouTube - The FGM-148 JAVELIN anti-tank guided missile - Future Weapons (HQ)

Yeah, superb weapon, but has some problems of its own. We need something in the Hellfire class, i do hope the new HJ-10 would be a match to Hellfire, if the rumor of it being a top attack missile become correct, we should get them. Well give a lot of boost to PA anti-armor capability.

[psifactor]

I think we need ATGMs like bill 2 ,Nlaw (SAAB) ,Javelin. A missile that is carried and operated by a single man. Tow squad consist of 4 members and hj8 may too if one of the squad member is killed then the unit is useless.

[Nutuk]

I'd propose my Pakistani brothers to also have a look at the OMTAS missile which is the alternative to the Javelin with the same features.

[Super Falcon]

we also operate TOW and TOW 2 ATM any way i still believe we need to have fire and forget missile for taking out tanks such as javelian it has two modes to take out tank if tank is protected by electronic counter measures than the second mode of javlein will hit tank from above to its turet where no electronic counter measure is instaled