Siachen Glacier, Fighting On The Roof Of The World

[blain2]

Originally Posted by Salim

BTW, Athale is a peacenik!

Interestingly, the post was held by the much heralded Pakistani commandos and was captured by the India Army's 'ordinary' infantry.

As soon as you read inaccurate stuff full of bravado like this, all the objectivity of the so-called "Peacenik" goes out the door. Also India not trusting Pakistan is a joke in the eyes of most Pakistanis after what transpired in 1971. Although we can debate the recent reasons for the lack of confidence on the Indian side, both sides always have a ready list of gripes from the past.

[Salim]

Originally Posted by blain2

As soon as you read inaccurate stuff full of bravado like this, all the objectivity of the so-called "Peacenik" goes out the door. Also India not trusting Pakistan is a joke in the eyes of most Pakistanis after what transpired in 1971. Although we can debate the recent reasons for the lack of confidence on the Indian side, both sides always have a ready list of gripes from the past.

What is the "accurate" stuff?

[Blackpearl]

The referral may be to Pakistan lost of Quide OP, i think in 1986,
Indian captured the post and named it as Bana Post, in hounour of Naib Subidar Bana Singh. This Indian post is still there today.

A brief account of the fight on post:
The post was held by 5 Pakistani SSG commandos. The brave souls defended the post for straight 3 days. No re-enforcement was possible as ropes from lower Quid Post, for transportation of, troops and men were cut due to extensive shelling by Indian Artillery. Without food, water and limited ammunition, commandos held for 3 days. finally all soldiers embrassed shahadat. and Indians captured the post at the end of 3rd day. Indian Army suffered 45 casualities, however they captured the post. Indeed, this was a great loss for Pakistan Army, as Indians were able to gain dominant position in area. Due to loss of Quid OP, our Artillery observers were deprived of observations. Bana OP completely masked Indian Positions in the north.

[Salim]

Thanks for the Pakistani side of the issue!

[Blackpearl]

The battle accounts are true, you can check from Mr Bana Singh (Retd).

[blain2]

Originally Posted by Salim

What is the "accurate" stuff?

SSG was never stationed on the post and the post itself was occupied by regular infantry (similar to the regular IA infantry unit which took over the post)..I can dig up the unit of the cadres defending the post. The only time SSG was used was in 87 during operation Qiyadat to retake the post. SSG, after the initial deployment of Pakistani forces in '84 (12 days after Indian troops were observed on the glacier in April of that year), was never deployed on the posts to defend them as such.

All 5 of the jawans died on the Quaid post after running out of ammo but killed many of the attackers.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by blain2

SSG was never stationed on the post and the post itself was occupied by regular infantry (similar to the regular IA infantry unit which took over the post)..I can dig up the unit of the cadres defending the post. The only time SSG was used was in 87 during operation Qiyadat to retake the post. SSG, after the initial deployment of Pakistani forces in '84 (12 days after Indian troops were observed on the glacier in April of that year), was never deployed on the posts to defend them as such.

All 5 of the jawans died on the Quaid post after running out of ammo but killed many of the attackers.

Sir, You are actually misunderastnding 2 posts in the same sector. The details are as follows:
Sector: Bilafond La Glacier, Ali Brangsa Sector.
1. This is a pass, which is protected by mountain tops on its right and left.
On the right shoulder of the pass is Bana OP, (then Quide OP). Quide OP was held by SSG,confirmed, led by Naib Subidar Atta Muhammad Shaheed, Sitara-i-Jurrat.

2. On the left shoulder of this Bilafond La pass is another mountain top on which Rana post is there. This is presently manned by Indians. But it was held, earlier by Pakistan. And yes , here you are right, it was manned by troops of Northern Light Infantry, then an irregular outfit. Northern Light Infantry is given regimental status only after Kargil war.

3. So at that time, paramilitary troops of Paksitan were defending left shoulder of pass, Rana OP. and right sholder was protected by Quide OP (SSG), being higher post, good for directing artillery fire on Indians.

4. Indians took both the posts, i think in the same year, 1986, yat not sure about exact year. Operation Qiadat was launched to retake Rana Post from Indians, as it was easier to retake as compared to Bana OP.

5. Led by then SSG troops, the Rana post was almost captured, except a lone bunker, which was manned by an Indian Lieutenant from a Sikh regiment and some soldiers. Pakistani troops were only 15 meters away from bunker and as they were goint to finally assault the bunker, the brave Lieut, asked Indian Artillery for SOS fire. Heavy shelling, subsequently killed all the attackers and defendors. Afetr some time , Indians reinforcement reached Rana Post and retained the occupation. The bodies of SSG troops who died in battle were returned by Indian by complete one year as all of them were burried under heavy snow.

6. I have met a person who saw the bodies of SSG troops, which were returned by Indian by full military honour. The bodies were as fresh as died just now.

7. Operation Qiadat was a failure. Loss of Quide OP was greatest set back. Actually, SSG troops were holding, some posts in Siachen, some were held by regular Infantry, some by Paramilitaries. so the command channels were complicated and did not converge. Afetr this episode, it was realised that SSG will only assist the regualr infantry. They were then placed under command of Commanding Officers of regular Infantry Battalions.

[Blackpearl]

Oh yae, there is something very important i forgot to mention. Actually i was trying to remember the post.

Operation Qiadat, did not go totally in vain. Pakistani troops were unable to capture back Rana post due to dedicated efforts of Indian soldiers, however, a new post was established by Pakistani troops. This post is still manned by Pakistani troops. This Pakistani post is present , surrounded by Indian posts, which are literally at stone through length. Guardians of this post are keeping a watchful eye, over Indian side.

The name of this post is TABISH.

[blain2]

Originally Posted by Blackwater

Sir, You are actually misunderastnding 2 posts in the same sector. The details are as follows:
Sector: Bilafond La Glacier, Ali Brangsa Sector.
1. This is a pass, which is protected by mountain tops on its right and left.
On the right shoulder of the pass is Bana OP, (then Quide OP). Quide OP was held by SSG,confirmed, led by Naib Subidar Atta Muhammad Shaheed, Sitara-i-Jurrat.

2. On the left shoulder of this Bilafond La pass is another mountain top on which Rana post is there. This is presently manned by Indians. But it was held, earlier by Pakistan. And yes , here you are right, it was manned by troops of Northern Light Infantry, then an irregular outfit. Northern Light Infantry is given regimental status only after Kargil war.

3. So at that time, paramilitary troops of Paksitan were defending left shoulder of pass, Rana OP. and right sholder was protected by Quide OP (SSG), being higher post, good for directing artillery fire on Indians.

4. Indians took both the posts, i think in the same year, 1986, yat not sure about exact year. Operation Qiadat was launched to retake Rana Post from Indians, as it was easier to retake as compared to Bana OP.

5. Led by then SSG troops, the Rana post was almost captured, except a lone bunker, which was manned by an Indian Lieutenant from a Sikh regiment and some soldiers. Pakistani troops were only 15 meters away from bunker and as they were goint to finally assault the bunker, the brave Lieut, asked Indian Artillery for SOS fire. Heavy shelling, subsequently killed all the attackers and defendors. Afetr some time , Indians reinforcement reached Rana Post and retained the occupation. The bodies of SSG troops who died in battle were returned by Indian by complete one year as all of them were burried under heavy snow.

6. I have met a person who saw the bodies of SSG troops, which were returned by Indian by full military honour. The bodies were as fresh as died just now.

7. Operation Qiadat was a failure. Loss of Quide OP was greatest set back. Actually, SSG troops were holding, some posts in Siachen, some were held by regular Infantry, some by Paramilitaries. so the command channels were complicated and did not converge. Afetr this episode, it was realised that SSG will only assist the regualr infantry. They were then placed under command of Commanding Officers of regular Infantry Battalions.

No I was wrong and you and Col Athale are actually right. Did confirm that the 5 who died on Quaid OP (named after Quaid Coy which actually setup the OP, post and base (all three named Quaid) and not Muhammad Ali Jinnah as is usually understood) including Sub Atta Muhammad (awarded SJ posth.) were from 1 Cdo (Shaheen Coy).

Blackwater, BTW you are mistaken on the Rana post issue. Op. Qiyadat was undertaken to regain Quaid OP (confirmed!) with SSG leading the assault however the opertaion was to proceed in phases with Rana (captured by Indians) and Akbar post (earlier abandoned) were to be reoccupied followed on by the focus on the Quaid OP. Capt Muhammad Iqbal was awarded a well deserved Hilal-e-Jurrat posthumously (the first officer of the rank of Capt to be awarded the second highest gallantry award) during this operation which failed to retake the post.

On the issue of holding, as I mentioned, after the initial years of consolidation, SSG was removed from this task and NLI and other regular infantry units have been used in this role.

[fatman17]

is it worth it that brave young men from both sides are losing their lives for what....

[Salim]

Fatman,

It is not worth it if you look at it in pure human terms.

But then the Army itself is redundant if there were no nations, no politics and things like that which makes life a complex an issue.

[blain2]

Originally Posted by fatman17

is it worth it that brave young men from both sides are losing their lives for what....

Its a waste any which way you look at it. However the mechanics of the relations between the two countries are as such that we will be there for as long as the other side remains.

[Salim]

Both sides will remain forever.

And as I see it, in a peaceful coexistence!

[blain2]

Originally Posted by Salim

Both sides will remain forever.

And as I see it, in a peaceful coexistence!

Yes I agree. It seems the current situation is not too bad.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by blain2

Yes I agree. It seems the current situation is not too bad.

Easy to say,
But i wish that Siachen is resolved as early as possible, so that troops of both sides donot suffer any longer.