How many Hindu Gods?- Dr. Naik

[Mark&Porus]

I took the liberty of seeing some of his videos, and he's not better than the numerous televangelists here. He'll preach peace, but always conclude that his religion is the best and should be converted to ASAP, preferably his brand of it (Wahabbism)


Brought up on the heavy dose of Saudi Arabia-backed Salafist-Wahabi Islam, Naik follows a supremacist ideology. "The Saudis think they have a divine right to convert Muslims across the world into a puritanical Salafist Islam. Naik is their public face,'' says sociologist Imtiaz Ahmed. "The exclusivist Wahabism is inimical to an inclusive, tolerant Islam practised in India. I have heard him a couple of times on TV and am deeply disappointed.''
Brought up on the heavy dose of Saudi Arabia-backed Salafist-Wahabi Islam, Naik follows a supremacist ideology. "The Saudis think they have a divine right to convert Muslims across the world into a puritanical Salafist Islam. Naik is their public face,'' says sociologist Imtiaz Ahmed. "The exclusivist Wahabism is inimical to an inclusive, tolerant Islam practised in India. I have heard him a couple of times on TV and am deeply disappointed.''
Community up in arms against Islamic preacher - India - The Times of India

Other speakers include Zakir Naik, 40, an Indian doctor, who has reportedly expressed views saying it is blasphemous for Muslims to wish Christians Happy Christmas as it acknowledges Jesus as a son of God.
Irish Examiner | Radical Muslim to address Islamic convention

[PAFAce]

Originally Posted by Mark&Porus

I took the liberty of seeing some of his videos, and he's not better than the numerous televangelists here. He'll preach peace, but always conclude that his religion is the best and should be converted to ASAP, preferably his brand of it (Wahabbism)

No he is not "televangelist". He is an academic scholar whose views may not be shared by all, but at least are valid and respected. He is one of the foremost Comparative Religious Studies figures in the world. There are atheists and scholars from other religion that quite literally refuse to debate with him, because his knowledge of their religion surpasses their knowledge of his religion by miles. Also, he always looks to take part in inter-faith dialogues and debates, not a typical "televangelist" thing to do. I suggest you go watch a few more videos of his, and this time, open your mind.

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by psugumar

Useless topic, This topic itself is wrong, Hinduism accepts all concepts . Hinduism accepts there is no GOD too.You can still be a Hindu if you don't believe in GOD.Think it as a way of living than a religion . Looks like even many of the Indian Hindu friends also do not know about this .

And I STRONGLY OPPOSE YOUR POST. The main backbone of Hinduism is "Aham Brahmasmi" which means "you are GOD" . All of our Sastra says you are GOD. We have temples to teach us our body is GOD . This is definitely not a lack of "system (I do not agree with this term) ".

Please do not post anything which can harm others feelings.If you do not know about any religion please learn about it. ALL RELIGIONS ARE BEST WITH BEST CONCEPTS AND TEACH US HOW TO LIVE.

" Religion cannot have any loophole. Religion is not a system" .

You belong to a religion if you follow that religion . I can be Hindu + Muslim , If I follow both the religions. Hinduism accepts a Muslim if he follows Hinduism. Hinduism accepts all except those who say "I am not a Hindu" . By this for me you are a Hindu as long as you are not going to say you are not.

I hate if any communist posts something against my religion.If you have anything to degrade my religion keep it with you and do not post anything in public forum,Be a Human then you can think of following a religion.

See that to me makes it all very fake. Classic man-made stuff. Many loopholes. I'm God. I can steal and say "I, the God, demanded theft!".

Even though you do not need religion for morals in society, but a twisted belief that you're God, can lead to degenerated morals with a license to commit any deed.

As I have told you before, this a secular forum and the topic focuses upon the many gods of Hinduism. You will undoubtedly see a difference of opinion.

[kallu_be]

Originally Posted by A1Kaid

Hinduism is an ancient pagan religion, with man-made Gods.

This religion is a religion that consist of no law rulings on sins, in fact technically there are no sins in mainstream Hinduism.

You have to remember this religion is pagan, with false gods, ridiculous Gods, so many Gods, that I am surprised these Hindus don't stop and think, HEY! Maybe this is wrong?

Also idol worshiping you must understand, is a false method of worshiping, it is materialistic and superficial by its very nature, even if it gives you some sort of self-gratification inside.

Understand, the Hindu scriptures were written by no divine influence, these scriptures are more philosophical then anything. These scriptures provide no strong guidance in life, hence fails as a religion to guide one to the true path.

Hinduism as a religion in a perfect sense and form, its the ignorance among the followers that had lead to the present circumstances. Hinduism is based on philosophy not some set of rules. Here philosophy means the abstract concepts which are open to interpretation. These interpretations over time has created many gods, as every one interpreted in a different way. Religions like Islam are based on rules which clearly states whats and nots, but those rules might have been suited for the times quran has been written but not relevant today. Upbringing a child in Muslim families usually associated with teaching of quran and parents pressure to adhere to its rules and regulations, this makes brain to become hardwired to a specific set of rules (like machines) and these rules will act as a constraints to every thing you want to do in turn dampening the creativity and innovation among the followers. This is the main reason the scientific growth in the middle east has stopped after the propagation of Islam. The principles of Hinduism don't preach any rules and the reason the philosophy of Hinduism is still relevant for the present times as the (man made) rules to govern the society evolve over time (still adhering to the core principles). Hinduism encourages to go for any distance in search of truth and self realization. As every human is not similar, the concept of Hinduism for every Hindu is also not similar.

[A1Kaid]

Exactly, the religion is man-made, were human beings are allowed to innovate and fabricate there own laws, philosophy, there own religious doctrine, teachings, and practice...Hence there is no single guidance, but multiple if not infinite misleading paths.

This is why in Hinduism the number of Gods is not determined, because from the very beginning the number of God's was fabricated by man. Hence this allows Hindus to fabricate more Gods, or even remove Gods if they feel necessary to do so.


Truth is Hindu scriptures (some) even mention something about the "Oneness" of God...I could be wrong.

I previously asked a few hindu members to state the number of Gods they worship and believe in...They were so embarrassed and ignorant they did not answer, however they just dodged the question and went on ranting about how I am in violation of something...

The fact the the number of Hindu Gods is not determined means there is no certainty in the religion, no certainty means no clarity, no definition, no straight forwardness, no right and wrong.

Hardly a religion sufficient enough for life forms as complicated as a human being.

[Mark&Porus]

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

See that to me makes it all very fake. Classic man-made stuff. Many loopholes. I'm God. I can steal and say "I, the God, demanded theft!".


As I have told you before, this a secular forum and the topic focuses upon the many gods of Hinduism. You will undoubtedly see a difference of opinion.

I guess the results of perfect god-made laws can be seen by one and all the Islamic world.

On one hand you extol the virtues of the one perfect religion, and on the other you advocate difference of opinion on religious matters.

The fact is that I see the eastern religions Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism as far more accepting of differences in opinion, which has resulted in the many different beliefs that you see today. Nothing more or less than that.

If you are criticizing hindus for accepting differences in opinion, you are being hypocritical.

[Mark&Porus]

Originally Posted by PAFAce

No he is not "televangelist". He is an academic scholar whose views may not be shared by all, but at least are valid and respected. He is one of the foremost Comparative Religious Studies figures in the world. There are atheists and scholars from other religion that quite literally refuse to debate with him, because his knowledge of their religion surpasses their knowledge of his religion by miles. Also, he always looks to take part in inter-faith dialogues and debates, not a typical "televangelist" thing to do. I suggest you go watch a few more videos of his, and this time, open your mind.

He's no scholar. He's a "self proclaimed expert" with no formal education in any religion. Infact, he was a doctor before he began preaching his stuff.

I'll give it that he's far better than a lot of the Islamic evangelists out there ( the formerly hard-drinking and smoking guy from Britain being an example) but his attempts to analyze different faiths are nothing but a way to hammer home his point that Islam is superior to other religions.

Comparitive religious studies is bullshit. Its like the blind leading the blind.

[A1Kaid]

Originally Posted by kallu_be

Upbringing a child in Muslim families usually associated with teaching of quran and parents pressure to adhere to its rules and regulations, this makes brain to become hardwired to a specific set of rules (like machines) and these rules will act as a constraints to every thing you want to do in turn dampening the creativity and innovation among the followers.

No not like machines, because unlike machines, machines cannot think for themselves outside of their programmed settings.


Also the Prophet said that you cannot force Islam on others if they refuse to accept, a machine is not given this option.

The fact that you even suggested that because Islam has laws means its followers are like machines because the rules "hardwired" our brains to a specific set of rules like "machines" is a invalid argument.

Allow me to explain.

Allah has given human beings a conscience, one thing the machine does not possess, Allah has given humans beings a soul one thing the machine does not possess, Allah has given man freedom to think and choose independently one thing the machine does not possess.

In fact Islam seeks to embrace the wholesome nature of man, a nature that is not found in machines...

You must understand having rules and laws and having things forbidden to you does not degenerate one, in fact it is right that one know what to avoid and what to accept.

In the Universe everything is bound by Allah's law. The cosmos operate with laws, these laws are governed by God at the highest level, beyond the empirical domain.

At the human level we are also naturally bound by laws, Allah has given man laws he cannot refuse like thirst and hunger.



These are things you will not understand as your religion's intellectual property fail to achieve or foresee such high divine truth...

Ameen.

I can explain my religion and I can sure as heck defend it.


Now I would like to stay on topic as much as possible.


As I said Hinduism is an ancient pagan religion, we can check Hinduisms origins and establish the fact. The number of Gods in Hinduism is undetermined. If human beings are allowed to make these God's then what right or power makes these Gods, true Gods?

[A1Kaid]

My religion has answered questions that yours can never.

[PAFAce]

Originally Posted by Mark&Porus

Comparitive religious studies is bullshit.

That statement gave me very deep insight into your character. Academics and discovery is never bullshit. In particular, learning to see from the opponent's point of view is all the more challenging, rare and remarkable.

Do yourself a favour, and take a class in philosophy or comparative religion. It will teach you not only their true value, but stop you from making stupid arguments and making a fool of yourself.

Be clear, I hold nothing against individual Hindus, Christians etc. and this is not the place to discuss our religious differences. I only came here to say that Dr. Naik had not said anything that should cause such outrage. His intentions were quite clearly good, but have been twisted to show otherwise.

I have nothing further to say on this thread, it is like banging my head against a wall.

[Jako]

Originally Posted by A1Kaid

My religion has answered questions that yours can never.

utter rubbish.........like every religion your religion is also manmade.........like i told you,own religion is perfect to everyone.........if islam was so perfect why is everyone in this whole goddamn world pointing at muslims for terrorist activities.......answer this...have you seen Allah?? Who told you your religion is perfect??

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by Mark&Porus

I guess the results of perfect god-made laws can be seen by one and all the Islamic world.

On one hand you extol the virtues of the one perfect religion, and on the other you advocate difference of opinion on religious matters.

The fact is that I see the eastern religions Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism as far more accepting of differences in opinion, which has resulted in the many different beliefs that you see today. Nothing more or less than that.

If you are criticizing hindus for accepting differences in opinion, you are being hypocritical.

Actually I would prefer keeping Islam out of it since Islam is not the topic of this discussion. When it is, you can get all the answers from members here.

All members should develop a back to hear unfavorable opinions against your religion...

[A1Kaid]

I have proposed a fundamental question, relating to the number of Gods in Hinduism.

"As I said Hinduism is an ancient pagan religion, we can check Hinduisms origins and establish the fact. The number of Gods in Hinduism is undetermined. If human beings are allowed to make these God's then what right or power makes these Gods, true Gods?" -A1Kaid


Any Hindu members willing to answer?

The fact is if they knew the true answer, they would no longer be Hindus...

Wah-e-Wah!

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by Mark&Porus

I guess the results of perfect god-made laws can be seen by one and all the Islamic world.

On one hand you extol the virtues of the one perfect religion, and on the other you advocate difference of opinion on religious matters.

The fact is that I see the eastern religions Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism as far more accepting of differences in opinion, which has resulted in the many different beliefs that you see today. Nothing more or less than that.

If you are criticizing hindus for accepting differences in opinion, you are being hypocritical.

As imperfect the God-made religion may seem to you, the man-made religion is not a religion. My personal take is that Hinduism long ago must've been God-made too since there are many similarities. But the men for whatever reasons, usually religious figures have twisted religious laws for political gains, kept revising it.

[kallu_be]

Originally Posted by A1Kaid

No not like machines, because unlike machines, machines cannot think for themselves outside of their programmed settings.

Yes the same way a muslim cannot think anything new with out considering the rules that mentioned in quran.

Also the Prophet said that you cannot force Islam on others if they refuse to accept, a machine is not given this option.

Yes he told not to force, just kill 'em. Thats the same reason the wars that were fought by your prophet are so brutal that non believers are killed or rooted out of their lands (Just as Zoroastrians rooted out of Iran). As the time goes the rules might have been relaxed and it might be the reason the Hinduism is still left in India.

The fact that you even suggested that because Islam has laws means its followers are like machines because the rules "hardwired" our brains to a specific set of rules like "machines" is a invalid argument.

Yesterday one of the forum members given an example involving a man giving talaaq to his wife when he is drunk and it has been enforced by muslim court or whatever. This is the classic case of bad programming where the rules are mentioned but the dynamics of the rules have not specified i.e, the verification of the rules has not been done. The mullah has pronounced the divorce citing the rule from quran without analysing circumstances involving. Is this conscience or sheer bad programming.

Allow me to explain.

Allah has given human beings a conscience, one thing the machine does not possess, Allah has given humans beings a soul one thing the machine does not possess,

fine until here.

Allah has given man freedom to think and choose independently one thing the machine does not possess.
[B]

Yes god has given freedom to think and choose but the book you are following (infact that was enslaving you) prohibits it.

As I said Hinduism is an ancient pagan religion.

Yes might be, as word hindu itself is not true. From now lets call it "sanatana dharma".

we can check Hinduisms origins and establish the fact. The number of Gods in Hinduism is undetermined. If human beings are allowed to make these God's then what right or power makes these Gods, true Gods?

Do you know why Hindus don't argue/kill about the gods they worship, bcoz every argument leads to only one conclusion that every god is one and same. As i mentioned in my previous post the gods in Hinduism are due to different interpretations of the same core concept, so every argument about the gods between Hindus leads to the same answer. This is the same reason Hindus are not confused about their beliefs or philosophy.