Pakistani Commandos VS Indian Commandos

[Muradk]

Pakistan Army's history in covert operations dates back to 1948 when tribesmen from the northern areas of Pakistan raided the Kashmir valley with the intent of wresting the control of the valley from its Hindu ruler. These raids, although a failure in achieving their absolute goal, were successful in bringing the disputed status of the Kashmir valley to the forefront of world affairs.

As a result of close study of the special operations conducted during the WWII by the allies and Germans alike, added to the insight gained during the raids conducted by the Pathan tribesmen, the Army realized the benefits of having a force that could operate behind enemy lines and sabotage the war efforts of its adversary.
Thus, as the relations between Pakistan and the United States cemented, Pakistan Army wasted little time in getting help with the formation of a proper Special Forces unit. In 1953-54, Pakistan Army was able to raise a battalion of Special Forces within the existing Baloch Regiment (Regt). It was however simply designated as the 10th Battalion as to make it as inconspicuous as possible.
In 1956, this formation was firmly established as the 19th battalion of the Baloch Regt and was moved to its new headquarters at Cherat, about 40 miles from Peshawar, where it is based to this day. Its first Commanding Officer (CO) was Lieutenant Colonel Abu Bakr Osman Mitha (later Maj Gen). At the time of its inception, the 19th Baloch consisted of approximately 6 companies.
In March of 1964, some members of CIA’s Covert Action Team, together with the U.S. Army's 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne) came to Pakistan as part of a mobile training team to help the Pakistani army setup its first airborne school at Peshawar. Four US Special Forces riggers came to help train SSG members for airborne operations. This assistance was part of the (US MAP) program. Additionally Pakistani SSG officers were sent to Fort Bragg and Fort Benning for advanced training. The training imparted upon the Pakistani officers included basic and jump-master courses allowing the 19th Baloch to become fully airborne qualified. This capability came just in time for the Pakistani Special Forces to get their baptism under fire during the 1965 Indo-Pak War.

In 1965, the 19th Baloch was officially designated as the Special Service Group (SSG). There was a single battalion of the SSG at the time and it consisted of companies specialized in different roles including desert, mountain, ranger, marine warfare, demolition/sabotage and intelligence gathering operations. The desert companies trained with the US 10th SF Group in 1964 and conducted desert survival training for the participating USSF in the Sibbi area.
These types of training exercises and operational relationship with US Special Forces continued and was further strengthened during the length of the cold war and later on during the Afghan war. As a result of this close interaction, Pakistani Special Forces have mirrored their American counterparts in many training concepts and operational doctrine. However it should be noted that over time, the SSG doctrine and tactics have evolved quite independently of the influences of any of the worlds’ other prominent SF outfits.
In 1966, after their less than favorable operations against the Indian Army in the September war, SSG went under a major reorganization and expansion. Two new battalions were raised. Cherat was maintained as the HQ, and the Attock Fort as a secondary base for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Commando Battalions (Cdo Bns) of the SSG. Each battalion comprised of 700 men led by a Lieutenant Colonel. In 1970, the SSG formed an independent combat diver unit by re-designating the old scuba company which was known as the Musa Company. This company was given the task of operating within Pakistani riverine areas while Pakistani Naval SSG undertook the responsibility of coastal operations to minimize overlap in their taskings.

In 1980, a decision was made to incorporate a combat diver company within each of the SSG battalions. This allowed the Musa Company to be relegated to a new anti-terrorism role which came up as a result of increases in terrorist incidents world wide. For this new role, advisors from the British Special Air Service (SAS) helped train the Musa Company operators.
The training of SSG cadres is rigorous and special emphasis is placed on the efforts to mould the soldiers into individual commandos capable of taking independent initiative. SSG operatives are all volunteers from other Pakistan Army formations. The officers must have at least two years of military service and if selected are assigned on a three-year posting within the SSG. The enlisted men, including the NCOs serve permanently in the SSG for as long as they can keep up with the tough physical regimen and retain medical category of “Aye”.

Typically within a given year, two batches of officers are selected to undergo the SSG training. The selection process begins with the GHQ screening through scores of applications and allowing approximately 100 or so to undergo the entrance tests. The entrance tests are spread over a few days. Interested candidates are grilled with intelligence and aptitude tests continuously over these few days and nights. The candidates are also pushed against strict timelines and mentally and physically exhausting tests. At the tail end of the selection process, the candidates are put through physical tests that include negotiating obstacle courses and individual and group tasks. Of the initial number put through the selection process, only a small fraction is actually inducted for training.
All trainees undertake an eight-month course at Cherat for basic commando training. Attrition is usually very high during this part of the training due to the intense and demanding regimen. The basic SSG course emphasizes tough physical conditioning including grueling forced 36-mile marches (post exercises) to be completed in 12 hours, a practice first institutionalized by the 19th Baloch. The SSG candidates are also required to run 5 miles in under 40 minutes with full gear. At the end of this eight month course, all SSG candidates must take and pass the four-week para-training course at the Airborne School in Peshawar. SSG members gain their wings and the coveted maroon berets after completing five day and two night-jumps (non-SSG members only have to complete 5 day jumps). After the completion of the basic commando course, the newly inducted commandos are put through their paces in the advanced commando course which runs an additional 25 weeks. Only at the end of these two grueling phases are operators considered to be integral members of the SSG.
Many SSG operators are also HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) and more recently HAHO (High Altitude High Opening) qualified. The HALO course consists of five free fall jumps that earn the commando a 'skydiver' tab. Additionally, many SSG operators also participate in the courses conducted at the Army’s Mountain Warfare School at Abbotabad. SSG operators in the diver companies attend the SSGN course (described separately) at Karachi to earn the 'Combat Diver' badge. Currently there are three classes of combat divers. The 1st Class is those who finish an 18-mile swim, 2nd Class combat divers are required to finish a 12-mile swim while the 3rd Class divers undertake the 6-mile swim. Another High-Altitude Mountain Warfare School has been established at Khappalu to train the SSG and other Army units for operations on the Siachen Glacier. Other areas of the commando training include internal security, assault and small unit tactics, sniping, demolition, survival, languages, small arms familiarization, Fighting In Built Up Areas (FIBUA), Close Quarter Battle tactics (CQB), Long Range Recce Patrol (LRRP), Martial arts, espionage, psycho-analytical training, and criminal psychology courses.
As a result of exposure to a wide range of training, the SSG is capable of carrying out a variety of missions. These include unconventional warfare, long-range reconnaissance and intelligence gathering missions, riverine operations, counter-terrorism, and tactical assaults against enemy positions. Another possible role would be to act as target designators for the Air Force and artillery observers. SSG personnel are also tasked with protection of vital points (VP) such as nuclear installations and dams. SSG also provides a security detail for the CoAS. In the past, SSG members have also been deployed aboard airlines to act as Air Marshals however this practice has been stopped.
SSG conducts regular (bi-annual) exercises with the Turkish Special Forces which have been designated as the "Ataturk" series. The first of these exercises was held in December, 1998. The Turkish force included 21 officers and 14 non-commissioned officers. The second exercise of this series was held in November of 2000, while Ataturk-III concluded in September 2002.
During the 80’s and then into the 90’s, SSG held many similar training exercises with U.S. Special Forces called “Inspired Venture”. These exercises were usually held during the early months of January and February with approximately 150 U.S. troops. The exercises were focused on weapons familiarization and use, mountain-warfare along with tactics, raids and ambushes, and eventually airborne operations.
SSG has also been reported to train with the Jordanian and Iranian special forces and regularly conducts training for Special Forces of other friendly Middle Eastern countries who opt to come to Cherat even though other venues such as Fort Bragg (USSF) and Credenhill (SAS) are also available.
In addition, during the 80’s and early 90’s scores of SSG officers were sent to the US for advanced training with the US Rangers and other special forces. Training was also imparted to the SSG personnel in UK and Malaysia.

With a new phase in Pak-U.S. relations, military cooperation has been restarted and joint exercises have already started anew.

jumping of a C-130 at 10,000/-ft .




It was decided to upgrade the command structure of SSG to better support the newly created units by raising it to Divisional level from Brigade level. The re-structuring plan was approved in June 2003 and now SSG command structure is very similar to any traditional Divisional HQ. The re-structuring plan also included the creation of sub-HQ’s to support various SSG units during operations since it was understood that re-structuring would also entail additional duties for sub units. 3 Commando Battalion was converted into a Special Operations Battalion (Spec Ops Bn) to deal with Low Intensity Conflicts (LIC). After converting 2 Commando Battalion into Spec Ops Bn, a need was felt to create another Battalion for its replacement in the army to deal with the traditional style operations. 4 Commando Battalion was raised to fill this gap. The manpower for this 4 Commando battalion was raised by taking one Company each from other three Battalions. For this process a special meeting of CO’s was OC’s was held and Company names were selected via a draw.

After the draw, 4 Commando Bn got the following Companies:

1. Shaheen Company (from 1 Commando Bn)
2. Jungju Company (from 2 Commando Bn)
3. Yaqub Company (from 3 Commando Bn)

After these 3 Companies went to 4 Commando Bn, it was decided to raise another 4 additional Companies, one each for every Battalion. This resulted in the creation of the following new Companies:

1. Mitha Company (went to 1 Commando Bn)
2. Bilal Company (went to 2 Commando Bn)
3. Easa Company (went to 3 Commando Bn)
4. Yusuf Company (went to 4 Commando Bn)

As of 2004, the structure of two brigades of SSG and Div HQ is as such:

1 Commando Bn

*

Ayub Company
*

Liaqat Comåany
*

Kamal Company
*

Mitha Company

2 Commando Bn

* Ghazi Company
* Tipu Company
* Quaid Company
* Bilal Company

3 Commando Bn

*

Hamza Company
*

Ibrahim Company
*

Zakria Company
*

Easa Company

4 Commando Bn

* Shaheen Company
* Jungju Company
* Yaqub Company
* Yusuf Company

5 Div Troops

* Zarrar Company
* Iqbal Company
* Musa Company
* Special Operations School
* Para Training School

Additional brigades are also being created. 1, 2 and 4 Commando Bn are under the command of one brigade and 3 Commando Bn and Karrar Company under the command of other bridage.

Weapons and Equipment

The SSG uses a top-notch arsenal of weapons and equipment. Due to the wide range of capability that exists within the ranks of SSG, an extensive variety of hardware is at the disposal of these operators. The primary weapon of choice for IS and counter terrorism roles is the ubiquitous Heckler & Koch MP5 (and its sub-variants like MPK5, SMG-PK and MP5-SD10) that are locally produced by the Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF). SSG operators also use Fabrique National’s 5.7mm P90 SMG. Assault rifles in use include the 5.56mm M16A1 and the newly introduced Steyr AUG, 7.62mm Heckler & Koch G-3A3 and the Type 56 (Chinese AK-47 variant). Locally produced version of Rheinmetall 7.62mm MG-3 is the standard LMG in use by the SSG. SSG snipers use scope-equipped G3s, Finnish Tikka bolt-action rifles as well as Heckler & Koch PSG1 and Steyr SSG 69 7.62mm (0.308 win.) bolt-action rifles. Handguns in use vary ranging from Austrian 9mm Glock 15, Bretta M9 (M92F), and SIG Pro 226. Heavier armament is available in the form of French LRAC 89mm rockets, MILAN ATGMs, Mistral and variants of Strella SA-7 shoulder fired SAMs. Combat support is also provided by 60mm mortars and 106mm RCLs.

For nocturnal operations, a variety of local and imported night vision goggles are being used heavily to increase the effectiveness of the special ops at night times. The use of frequency-hopping radios, GPS units and other high-tech communications equipment is also entering wide-scale service in the ranks of SSG.
The Pakistani Special Forces members are easily distinguishable by their maroon berets with a silver metal tab on a light blue felt square. Initially, the 19th Baloch Battalion and later the SSG members wore the traditional khaki uniform similar to the regular army. In 1972 a new disruptive pattern combat tunic was introduced for the entire Army, however, for various reasons including cost, it was abandoned in 1979. The current uniform of the SSG features the US woodland pattern camouflage combat dress. A variety of other operational dresses are also available depending on the terrain the SSG commandos are operating from.
A bullion SSG para-wing with a dagger superimposed on a black cloth background is worn on the right chest. A red-cloth version of the same wing is worn by the master parachutist (or paratroopers) with at least 50 jumps, while the SSG Riggers wear a wing with 'Rigger' stitched across the wings. These are the dress version of Bragg & Turner. The distinctive SSG badge, used since 1964, featuring a dagger framed with lightening bolts goes on the left shoulder. Other qualification badges such as Skydiver, SCUBA, etc go on the right shoulder. A silver SSG insignia is worn on the shoulder straps.

Indian SSG and Pakistani SSG have been trained by the best in my opinion they both are very professional in what they do and both the countries have surpassed their Masters a long time ago.

[Muradk]

I think Key our Mod can tell us more because he has trained with them as a sniper.

[slugger]

This thread has essentially been started with a flawed comparison

Comparision between the SSG and NSG is a non-starter:

* NSG operates under the jurisdiction of the Home Ministry of India
* Draws recruits from the Indian Army as well as the Indian Police force and BSF
* The functions and objectives to be achieved by the NSG is vastly differently from that of the Indian Army SF

If you had to intitate a thread for such a juve comparison, then at least you could have got the facts right

Special Forces

Indian Army - Para Commandos
Indian Navy - MARCOS
Indian Air Force - Garud Commando Force

Else any attempt to comapre the two would e like comparing the Cricket team of a country with the football team of another

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

Slugger:

If you don't like a thread, don't post on it.

Quite frankly your tantrums on every other thread over why it is this or that and unworthy of comment blah blah blah are getting annoying.

If the thread is based on a flawed premise, correct it as you did above, and leave the complaining out please.

If you really feel strongly against a thread, report it to the mods with your reasons, and we'll determine whether it needs to continue or not.

[xebex]

Originally Posted by armyhero

Some people say indian commandos are better than SSG Commandos but I don't think so. Pakistan also fought with very small forces but they won always without 1971 due to separation of Bangladesh. In 1999 Pakistan lost a few force but India lost a huge quantity of forces. So also SSG commando training is more difficult than that of Indian Commando so we can compare both.

so u been to both Indian commando training and Pakistani commando training?.... do u have any proof to support that claim buddy?....NO?....we dont buy it alright, sorry it was a dry bite.

[third eye]

Originally Posted by inigma

The Pakistani SSG is an elite force of the Pakistan Army. Looking at previous encounters Indias Army have never come close to defeating Pakistan in a war, despite the obvious numerical and financial advantage being in India's court.

So if you look at it logically if India's average soldier cannot defeat the average Pakistani soldier then how can an Indian Elite be better than a Pakistani SSG elite commando. Logic shows us this is impossible. So there is your answer my pakistani brother.

Sweeping statements for a 1st post !!

Commandos / special forces are not meant to be pitted against each other. It would be a waste of resources to do so.

The boldened portion is too childish to even comment on.

[amarnath]

Sorry to say this, but if you look the over all ability, Indian commandos are way too better. I dot enter Into any argument without a source. And Its according to US navy seals.

Best Commandos of the World | Navy SEALs Information & Resources

[blain2]

Originally Posted by amarnath

Sorry to say this, but if you look the over all ability, Indian commandos are way too better. I dot enter Into any argument without a source. And Its according to US navy seals.

Best Commandos of the World | Navy SEALs Information & Resources

Purely your opinion. It would have been better had you not posted that useless link.

Suffice it to say that Pakistani commandos have been around since 1956 and have operated in very many operations and locations throughout that time. Usually the more committed you are, the more experience you have which results in becoming better at your trade. There is no exception to this case for the Pakistani special forces either.

Comparing high tech equipment is one thing (much easier to do and usually the way most arrive at assigning ranks and ratings to the various SF outfits around but hardly the real assessment of the abilities of SF outfits), however the real deal is comparing training, doctrine and employment which make all the difference in the world. Here I can say 110% that Pakistani SF are as good or better than most around.

Armyhero, please avoid posting inane flamers here and there. In the absence of any objective criteria, this issue cannot be settled by just claiming things.

[amarnath]

Originally Posted by blain2

Purely your opinion. It would have been better had you not posted that useless link.

Suffice it to say that Pakistani commandos have been around since 1956 and have operated in very many operations and locations throughout that time. Usually the more committed you are, the more experience you have which results in becoming better at your trade. There is no exception to this case for the Pakistani special forces either.

Comparing high tech equipment is one thing (much easier to do and usually the way most arrive at assigning ranks and ratings to the various SF outfits around but hardly the real assessment of the abilities of SF outfits), however the real deal is comparing training, doctrine and employment which make all the difference in the world. Here I can say 110% that Pakistani SF are as good or better than most around.

Well well well , You say that Pakistan commandos exist from some 1956, that dosent make your commandos more experianced or better than Indian commandos, Its just Like saying "My dady is better than you just because he was born Before you"


Come on , Do u have any credible source to disproove my comment? I dont think you will ever find. If you have, then Come with it, and we will debate on it, I dont want to argue on a blind comment.

[xebex]

MARCOS is considered as one of the best in the world and it was modelled after US navy seals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARCOS_(India)



^^ Quiet old photo tho.

[amarnath]

Originally Posted by xebex

MARCOS is considered as one of the best in the world and it was modelled after US navy seals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARCOS_(India)



^^ Quiet old photo tho.

EXACTLY well said...

[Durran3]

Originally Posted by Communist

Balck Cat Commandos (BCC) of india are always picked up by political leaders for protection purpose from the National Security Guards (NSG) units. So BCC and NSG are the same. NSG Official website: have a look..
National Security Guard

Well, it is difficult to compare SSG with NSG. In both cases, candidates have to pass the toughest training. But what really matters is the use of modern high-tech firearms which are used by Russian and American commando forces. Physical efficiency cannot be compared with mechanical efficiency. Its my opinion. I could be wrong though.

Physical exhursion and hand to hand combat is the basis of all combat and only a fool would trust his life to a Weapon

[TaimiKhan]

Originally Posted by xebex

MARCOS is considered as one of the best in the world and it was modelled after US navy seals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARCOS_(India)



^^ Quiet old photo tho.

Wow, indians know very well about their commandos & their equipment. The guy is holding a MP-5 variant and they classify it an AK-104

[amarnath]

Originally Posted by taimikhan

Wow, indians know very well about their commandos & their equipment. The guy is holding a MP-5 variant and they classify it an AK-104

you prooved your worth...lol.....

[TaimiKhan]

Originally Posted by amarnath

you prooved your worth...lol.....

banging your head to the wall will not bring your common sense & intellectuality, better stop banging it and post some useful, informative & constructive posts. Don't try to be the usual Indian, try to become a decent civilized Indian.