F7-PG in PAF and in the near future!

[TOPGUN]

F7-PG in PAF in the future! wat do u guys think should we get more ? since we are only now limited as in wat we are getting and gona get as per the ACM said please share your views thx!!

[General Fujita]

I think Pakistan will keep the 50 or so f-7PG's in their fleet till about 2020 because they have a young airframe, good grifo radar and are modified to carry sidewinder missiles. They will continue to perform the interceptor role. Pakistan WILL NOT order anymore because its looking to the future and is not looking to linger around in the past.

[Nomi929]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

F7-PG in PAF in the future! wat do u guys think should we get more ? since we are only now limited as in wat we are getting and gona get as per the ACM said please share your views thx!!

No way, PAF gonna buy more F-7 pg's.

Wats the reason for buying a Non-BVR platform when you are localling producing a BVR capable Fighter (JF-17)?

[linda]

i don't think so

[HAIDER]

Old is gold .lolzz

[TOPGUN]

Thx for the pic's Haider!! looks like we will be getting afew more per ACM!!

[Nomi929]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

Thx for the pic's Haider!! looks like we will be getting afew more per ACM!!

U talking about getting more F-7 pg's

[Owais]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

Thx for the pic's Haider!! looks like we will be getting afew more per ACM!!

no more F7PG! we will see the FC20 and JF17 in this formation very soon

[Neo]

PAF does not require more F-7PG's. The current batch was ordered hastly due lack of funds and availability of more capable western design as we once again came under US led weapon embargo after the series of nuclear tests in 1998 and growing tensions with India in 2001.

We don't need more F-7PG when we have more capable JF-17 which according to ACM can be produced in numbers, i.e. 20-25 per year.

[Munir]

The already ordered pg's will stay cause they are fine for getting cheap flight hours. Besides that you just now wanna do a dogfight with a PG! It is small and terrible agile so it reminds me of Gnat against Sabres... Not that the Gnat was super advanced but the fact that (as Murad can tell like no other) you will know that it is around when you hear its guns... I agree its sensors/radar is not the best (and it still has its bicycle wheel brake) but if kindly guided by Erieye you just do not wanna meet the PG... On the other hand during wartime you will be happy with a plane that can maintained in minutes rather a plane that needs a full team of highly trained engineers and expensive and complex tools...

[Owais]

Originally Posted by Munir

The already ordered pg's will stay cause they are fine for getting cheap flight hours. Besides that you just now wanna do a dogfight with a PG! It is small and terrible agile so it reminds me of Gnat against Sabres... Not that the Gnat was super advanced but the fact that (as Murad can tell like no other) you will know that it is around when you hear its guns... I agree its sensors/radar is not the best (and it still has its bicycle wheel brake) but if kindly guided by Erieye you just do not wanna meet the PG... On the other hand during wartime you will be happy with a plane that can maintained in minutes rather a plane that needs a full team of highly trained engineers and expensive and complex tools...

our F7PGs have Italian Grifo-7 radar. i heard on other forums they they can carry bvr as well. Right???

[Munir]

Originally Posted by Owais

our F7PGs have Italian Grifo-7 radar. i heard on other forums they they can carry bvr as well. Right???

They have a decent small radar but not that good for BVR. Look, you shoot often BVR 2/3 of max range. Before you go that moment you want do prepare so you can use its maximum profile... And if you have the radar that just matches its max range then it is a problem you will have if the other sees you first, shoots first or prepares to avoid... You end up having only one shot option and left without BVR to attack more then 2 opponents... Besides that the PG can probably have the BVR only on the heavy stations so you are there without much range and getting into a WVR dogfight is the last thing you want with a almost without fuel light plane... It reminds me of the German rocket plane M262... You get up, shoot as fast us possible and then expect to be killed when you are a glider or die during landing... I would not go for adjustments a la Bison! A JF17 is the minimum for a decent and valuable BVR plane. Anything less is not worth the risk.

To be precise, J10 would be the better option if we want a real BVR plane. More then 2 BVR are needed. If you are up 2 v 2 you need a lot more then 2 if you want to avoid getting close. So the first two will be around max range to get other into defensive and then two to clean them. Or WVR to get them done and the second pair BVR for the group behind it.. Those are often the real attack planes... Or the second CAP...

So 4 BVR and 2 WVR + 2 tanks and decent ECM pod... Otherwise you have a light BVR plane that needs to get secure after the first shot... Ithink they have to think about a Gripen NG kind of main gear for J10 to add 2 BVR extra...

[khanasifm]

PG have Grifo 7 with added Track While Scan Mode (f7p does not have it) and should be able to guide 2 active bvr, most bvr actual firing range is 75% of published ranges to actually be a threat to opponent. Search range 55 km track range 37 km in best cases and 22km in look down for Grifo 7 is decent medium range for bvr guidance. AIM 120A has 17 nm max range which is almost 20 miles . B /C and other have better.

Major issue max endurance on internal fuel (about 2000kg) about 35-40 minutes with full 3 tank load (1200 kg) 50-55 minutes for Mig 21/F7 so its pure point defense fighter. 2 bvr will help if PAF want to keep it till 2020-2025.

Lets see

Cheers

[Munir]

Searching 55 km while flying say 750 km/h atleast... Then you have to get into position and fire at around 37 km? Think about the second plane, communicate with your buddy and hope it is not friendly? You can do that within a minute or two? And what if they fire first? You wil bleed a lot of energy or have to face the second round or next CAP... Harldy worth do do. I would no take that chance and fly another day...


You need to see the opponent a lot earlier then its max BVR range... And if possible earlier then he sees you! With a small radar you risk he plane, your carrier and the nation. Keep it as a trainer but do not expect wonders. The Americans have A4 skyhawk a long time in service after it was no longer a frointline airplane... Just to keep topgun pilots eager to win. Not to risk more then that.

p.s. it is 2/3 max range... not 3/4....

[Kharian_Beast]

While it's nice to see the F7's still flying I hope all 50 remaining can be replaced by J11's for the Navy or something, let's do something nice for the Navy for a change huh?