Russia and India to Create Gen. 5 Fighter

[su-47]

Originally Posted by Keysersoze

Doesn't cover how they have overcome the problems with plasma stealth. and since the theory has been around since the 60's no one else has implemented it.

Agreed. There's no proof to substantiate Russian claims.

However, PAKFA could have conventional stealth like F-22

[WebMaster]

India plans to fund Russia in order to counter F/A-22 Raptor

Indian Defence Minister, AK Antony is likely to ink a deal on his visit to Russia for the development of a 5th generation fighter aircraft.

Indian government plans to spend $5 billion on such a project to counter the production of a 5th generation fighter aircrafts in the United States Air Force, F/A-22 Raptor and Joint Strike Fighter.

Such a cooperation will enhance military ties with Russia which still stands today since the days of the communist Soviet Union.

AK Antony will visit Moscow to attend the Indo-Russia inter-government commission on military technical cooperation.

India preferred the Sukhoi's PAK-FA, 5th generation fighter earlier this year, which came after years of consultation and discussions over the issue to enjoy air supremacy throughout the world.

It is expected that both sides will firm up a formal declaration regarding the deal during the defence minister's visit.

"An inter-governmental pact will be signed during the visit, though price negotiations and intellectual property right issues will be sorted out at a later stage", an Indian defense official said.

If the deal is inked, the deal will be the largest multi-billion-dollar military deal between the two countries for the development of a 5th generation fighter aircraft which will guarantee air supremacy a long with the already highly capable fighter aircrafts, who already posses significant advantage against American, French, Chinese and European fighter aircrafts.

India and Russia both are looking for a next generation stealth fighter which would adequately match, if not exceed the capabilities of the US Air Force's F/A-22 Raptor, which is already in service, as well as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, Lightning, being jointly developed by the United States and the United Kingdom.

Meanwhile air force chief, Air Chief Marshal FH Major has confirmed that the IAF has finalized the technical requirements for the fifth generation aircraft.

"The air staff requirements for the fifth generation fighters have been made. It will take five years for development and it will be 8-10 years before the first fighter takes to the skies," he said.

India plans to contribute to the 5th generation fighter aircraft pro-gramme and gain some valuable expertise for its own defence research and development establishments who struggle to meet the requirements of its air force for a light combat aircraft, LCA.

Sukhoi Design Bureau has already finalized the basic design and features of the aircraft. The PAK-FA is expected to have advanced stealth features, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, thrust vectoring for increased maneuverability and a super-cruise mode to fly at supersonic speed without using afterburners.

According to the Russian defense officials, a prototype of the PAK-FA would make its first flight in early 2009 marking a near era for both air forces of the world.

Such an ambitious collaboration between the two countries is likely to lead other countries such as Pakistan, United States, and China to better prepear their air forces against such a threatening fighter aircraft which will be capable of using "stealth features" and highly advanced air-to-air and air-to-ground weapon systems on a high speed super cruise mode.

As tensions between United States and Russia increase over defence shield in Europe. United States government continues to offer Indian government highly advanced weapon systems, aircrafts, and a nuclear energy agreement, which some believe will adversely effect its major non-NATO ally on the war on terrorism, Pakistan

http://www.defence.pk/news/publish/I...r_20071017.php

[WebMaster]

Its time to think ahead of just the 4th generation Thunder aircraft!

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

India is not interested in making a nuclear deal with the U S of A-----seemingly the F 18 deal is down the drain as well---Turkey is telling U S of A to shove it---so openly has the turk general made that statement----a lots of venues are securing down their hatches. Iran has joined with russia---and the statement comes out---not to imagine of invading iran---wallah. what a day.

The americans did lay their legs wide open but the indians didnot fall into the honey trap---the credit should be given to the indian opposition----.

America would be the biggest loser in this game if india does give all these major contracts to russia-----in order to entice india, the americans gave them hundreds of thousands of their jobs at the cost of american labour just for the reason to show how keen they were to start up with the indians. Losers, losers, losers----amazing isn't it---americans had to see this day.

[solid snake]

Originally Posted by MastanKhan

Hi,

India is not interested in making a nuclear deal with the U S of A-----seemingly the F 18 deal is down the drain as well---Turkey is telling U S of A to shove it---so openly has the turk general made that statement----a lots of venues are securing down their hatches. Iran has joined with russia---and the statement comes out---not to imagine of invading iran---wallah. what a day.

The americans did lay their legs wide open but the indians didnot fall into the honey trap---the credit should be given to the indian opposition----.

America would be the biggest loser in this game if india does give all these major contracts to russia-----in order to entice india, the americans gave them hundreds of thousands of their jobs at the cost of american labour just for the reason to show how keen they were to start up with the indians. Losers, losers, losers----amazing isn't it---americans had to see this day.

India wants a 5th gen aircraft, which the US isn't selling to anyone anyway, so they didn't lose out on anything. India might not buy the F-18's but there are plenty of other countries like Canada, Australia, Japan, S. Korea etc to keep the US defense industry well ahead of Russia.

[QADRI]

Pakistan has also the uppertunity to fund in Chiness 5th gen. craft... i don't remember its name but i guess that is f-20, so y PAF is missing this.

[IceCold]

Why is all the sudden india needs to counter the F/A-22? Unless india thinks of future conflict with the US. Anyhow by the time this russian jet will make through the sky, do one think that F/A-22 will be sitting? No, new blocks will be added up. Its seems viturally impossible to counter F/A-22 unless russians come up with something out of the blue. Russian equipment already lacks when compared to the western technology.

[niaz]

Russia and India have a long history of collaboration in the development of missiles ( Brahmos), transport aircraft IL -214T among many others. Genuine ' ab initio' development of a new aircraft is a very expensive affair and we have seen joint funding of reaserch & development in aviation for a long time. Concord ( UK & Farance), Jaguar ( UK & France), Airbus (UK, France, Germany & Spain), Tornado ( UK, Germany and Italy) and Eurofighter ( UK, Germany, France- thru EADS, Italy and Spain). Except for US, it is very difficult for other countries to allocate sufficient manpower and monetary resources to develop a truly 5th generation fighter.

With all due respect to our dear friend China; top of the line Chinese military hardware is till way behind European and Western state of the art equipment. It is therfore very logical for India and Russia to join efforts. This will guarantee that the new aircraft will be purchased by India as well thus the research and development cost will be spread over a larger number.

[IceCold]

Originally Posted by niaz

Russia and India have a long history of collaboration in the development of missiles ( Brahmos), transport aircraft IL -214T among many others. Genuine ' ab initio' development of a new aircraft is a very expensive affair and we have seen joint funding of reaserch & development in aviation for a long time. Concord ( UK & Farance), Jaguar ( UK & France), Airbus (UK, France, Germany & Spain), Tornado ( UK, Germany and Italy) and Eurofighter ( UK, Germany, France- thru EADS, Italy and Spain). Except for US, it is very difficult for other countries to allocate sufficient manpower and monetary resources to develop a truly 5th generation fighter.

With all due respect to our dear friend China; top of the line Chinese military hardware is till way behind European and Western state of the art equipment. It is therfore very logical for India and Russia to join efforts. This will guarantee that the new aircraft will be purchased by India as well thus the research and development cost will be spread over a larger number.

I do aggree with you sir about what you said, but the question remains still there.
1) What need does india suddenly has to build a 5th gen plane?

2) What gurrantee does it have that this jet will indeed be capable of challenging the 5th generation planes of the west and that it will have the capability of stealth and super cruise?

Now we know that russians have been working with the plasma stealth technology, but that technology was there since the 60s yet there isnt any siginificant breakthrough achieved. Also if we study the plasma tech closely, it is not an answer to a complete stealth achievement, where it does reduces the RC of the plane due to the fact that plane is covered with ionize gas but that does not mean the radar wont be able to track it down, keeping in mind that radars are also evolving as the aircraft tech is. Besides incoperating a plasma stealth generator in a fighter plane is a whole new challenge.

[Salim]

Americans gave them hundreds of thousands of their jobs at the cost of american labour.

Americans are the best ones to cut a deal where they are not the losers.

And money they understand better than anyone. That is why, inspite of all the ancient hostility and rhetoric, they are chummy, in a business sense, with China.

So they gave the jobs so that their economy could shore up as also they got the best of brains to engine their pursuits.

As the Americans themselves say, there is nothing called a free lunch!

So, it is high time, one understands the difference and not let it be a vehicle to let the spleen since it is a busman's holiday!

[Judas Iscariote]

USA has pruduced atleast 4 stealth aircrafts, the F-117 Night Hawk, B-2 Spirit, F-35 JSF and the F-22 Raptor whereas Russia is yet to fly her first stealth design in 2009.
Its too optimistic and rather irrealistic to believe that she'll be able to match or even counter the surperior F-22 Raptor which is way ahead of the JSF.

PAK-FA airframe will take 5 more years to devlop and another 8-10 years to evaluate, refine and implement stealth technology so it won't be available before 2020.
USA by that time will probably have taken advantage by introducing 6th gen stealth UCAV which will change a lot of things in the air war fare.

Pak-Fa at best will match the F-35 which took 15 years to develop, I don't believe Russia will at present has the technology nor funds to come up with something in the league of the Raptor for a long time to come.

[Judas Iscariote]

Originally Posted by WebMaster

Its time to think ahead of just the 4th generation Thunder aircraft!

I agree, the answer and our best option would be the Chinese J-XX which would take the skies around 2012 and will be completed by 2020.
Technologically it may not be as advanced as the JSF but it will provide PAF with a stealth design whcih again can be further developped at home.

We may not have much to contribute for the project, becoming a risk sharing funding partner atleast will assure that we get an stealth fighter by 2020.

I hope government is already doing something behind the curtains to assure our future needs.

[su-47]

India's 5th gen project with Russia is not to counter raptor. It is to get a 5th gen fighter at a reasonable cost. we need a 5th gen fighter coz the PLAAF is expanding rapidly and we can match them in quantity, and we need a true 5th gen fighter to get an edge over PLAAF.

[IceCold]

Originally Posted by Neo

I agree, the answer and our best option would be the Chinese J-XX which would take the skies around 2012 and will be completed by 2020.
Technologically it may not be as advanced as the JSF but it will provide PAF with a stealth design whcih again can be further developped at home.

We may not have much to contribute for the project, becoming a risk sharing funding partner atleast will assure that we get an stealth fighter by 2020.

I hope government is already doing something behind the curtains to assure our future needs.

Neo wikipedia suggests otherwise. They say that pakistan has shown keen interest in JSF as a future replacement fighter for their F-16s by 2020. This lets to another debate, because for pakistan i highly doubt the sale of JSF is possible.

[Judas Iscariote]

Originally Posted by IceCold

Neo wikipedia suggests otherwise. They say that pakistan has shown keen interest in JSF as a future replacement fighter for their F-16s by 2020. This lets to another debate, because for pakistan i highly doubt the sale of JSF is possible.

Ice,

Wiki isn't a reliable source and even facts are publically amendable so I take whatever is published there with a pinch of salt.
JSF will not be offered to Pakistan untill J-XX is available of the obvious reasons, opposition is US Congress would never release such advanced technology to Pakistan.

Just rememer that AMRAAM-120C was only offered after Chinese SD-10 became available.

I believe current block 52 F-16 deal is the last major defence order to go to the Americans, we'll be relianing on Chinese, Europeans and indegenous designs for future needs.