From the point of view of an invader!

[Nasha]

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Hi, I am a wanna be novelist and for my very first novel I'd like to attemt on a possible US-Allied full scale attack on Pakistan as the Background.
I am sure there are a lot of knowledgable, analytical people here and as a complete layman I'd appreciate some help. so, in the even that the US decides to attack Pakistan......I would like for some one to think from the prespective of a US head of tactics and strategy, and tell me all the how, where, from where, of there take over.
With Pakistan not wanting to kill millions of afghanis, and no other foreign land to throw them at either...it is assumed that India succumbs to threats of having at least six nukes being droped on them and so, does not attcak or help the Invaders in any formal manner. the two option remaining wold be trough afghanistan and the sea. use maps and/or names of places would be most help full.
also I would like to now about the role that china could play. other than the diplomatic one of-course. China would veto such actions in the UN and condem it and all, but would it threaten a war with the US for sake of Pakistan? after all we dont have any treaties signed that would draw them in a possible war with us, such as those that are ussually signed by the US with countries it protects, such as south korea, south vietnam(once), Japan etc.
would it just give us arms and amunitions and tactical help uder the table or send troops and all?
Thanking you,
Nasha.

[ejaz007]

Dear Nasha,

It would be appreciated if you first go to the introduction section and introduce yourself to us.

This is the tradition of the forum.

[donrahul]

There is already a novel called World war 3! which centres around Indo-Pak war! with all international elements involved! Check that out too , if you want more info!

[third eye]

You really have an vivid imagination !!

Good Luck.

[Spring Onion]

Well i can send you my write up for that but i dont think so US is going for a full sacle war or invasion of Pakistan.

Even if it enters it wont sustain it for long. Just like Iraq and Afghanistan, it will only create a big mess and leave us behind living in premitive era.

[nitesh]

I remember reading some scenario created by US think tanks (some where in 2002-2003) in one of the local news paper which has the point that US invades pakistan for securing the news that was too comical to be believed. ha ha ha

[Spring Onion]

I remember reading some scenario created by US think tanks (some where in 2002-2003) in one of the local news paper which has the point that US invades pakistan for securing the news that was too comical to be believed. ha ha ha

US and its think TANKS are like water tanks always overflowing.

Everytime they need a scenario to dump the weapons their companies are manufacturing on large scale.

Indeed hawks in US always need the blood of innocent people for selling weapons.

[Nasha]

Dear Fellows,
I have submited to tradition, did a quick search on World War 3 centering around Indo-Pak in vain, have had a blissfull time in vanity of my Imagination and now eagerly anticipate the arival of a write up from the 'land of the guns'......
I beleive America IS attackin Pakistan right now. Pakistani's are in denial and being afraid of an invasion by the soul superpower of the world, we have disowned our own people. extremism, terorism comes from not having a life (education, money, all the ussual vows) and a constant feeling of ones livelihood/life being threatened. with no jobs available and no other means of a livelihood soldiers come and destroy theor houses, market places, farms and kill their parents.........what would the children of all those who die in Waziristan, Swat and all such areas become if not terorists and extremists even more closed minded than those before them.
We are killing our on people when what we should be doing is providing them education and jobs.....proper livelihoods,and in time when and if thier children have had a happy childhood and a prosperous future to look forward to, is there any reall difference between people of ANY land on Earth other than their nurture? (enviorment, culture, language,) it is what we learn in our lives that makes us who we are. we are Pakistani's by birth after all, not choice.
Its only time untill a lot of non-civillians (Pak Military) die by 'accident' at the hands of American drones and gunship helicopters, its happened before already of course. what should happen if Pak Fauj were to retaliate and down some of their precious machines? cross border attacks? more dead? more attacks? and what would the politicians do? argue against our own millitary? or risk the wrath of our beloved allies?
That is how my novels back ground goes. it will be through the eyes of the media to the protagonist and so, ebery thing will be blusred. even the attack and all. but how and where the protagonist is suposed to go, that depends on the manner of attack and from where and how its comes. This of course is my question to you.....
P.S. sorry for all the rambling.

[Spring Onion]

Dear Fellows,
I have submited to tradition, did a quick search on World War 3 centering around Indo-Pak in vain, have had a blissfull time in vanity of my Imagination and now eagerly anticipate the arival of a write up from the 'land of the guns'......
I beleive America IS attackin Pakistan right now. Pakistani's are in denial and being afraid of an invasion by the soul superpower of the world, we have disowned our own people. extremism, terorism comes from not having a life (education, money, all the ussual vows) and a constant feeling of ones livelihood/life being threatened. with no jobs available and no other means of a livelihood soldiers come and destroy theor houses, market places, farms and kill their parents.........what would the children of all those who die in Waziristan, Swat and all such areas become if not terorists and extremists even more closed minded than those before them.
We are killing our on people when what we should be doing is providing them education and jobs.....proper livelihoods,and in time when and if thier children have had a happy childhood and a prosperous future to look forward to, is there any reall difference between people of ANY land on Earth other than their nurture? (enviorment, culture, language,) it is what we learn in our lives that makes us who we are. we are Pakistani's by birth after all, not choice.
Its only time untill a lot of non-civillians (Pak Military) die by 'accident' at the hands of American drones and gunship helicopters, its happened before already of course. what should happen if Pak Fauj were to retaliate and down some of their precious machines? cross border attacks? more dead? more attacks? and what would the politicians do? argue against our own millitary? or risk the wrath of our beloved allies?
That is how my novels back ground goes. it will be through the eyes of the media to the protagonist and so, ebery thing will be blusred. even the attack and all. but how and where the protagonist is suposed to go, that depends on the manner of attack and from where and how its comes. This of course is my question to you.....
P.S. sorry for all the rambling.

If u had asked me to comment on your above comment sometimes back i would have agreed with you.

But now after being there practicaly and meeting serveral of affected persons there.
I totaly disagree with you.

Being affected and losing one's family is indeed a strong reason for becoming a militant but in case of NWFP its not at all the strong reason.

Uptill now the psychologists have been puhsing for this reason as basis of militancy along with poverty and unemployment but they had never touchd another dimension and has nothing to do with all these.

In 80s during Afghan War the poverty level was much higher than today, the peopel were as much affected as they are today but there was NOT ONE single suicide bombing.

Why??
Becuase today we have this Takfiri ideology at work that is being brought by Al-Qaeda into this region.

This Takfiri ideology is corrupting the Islamic ideology of fight against oppression.

Takfiris are active to prepare thousands of suicide bombers who are blowing themselves to kill innocent people.

[Nasha]

General Jana (Wow! so Star Warsy)
(RGHGHR......whomever likes what I write either to agree or agree to disagree for the sake of argument, better be thankfull that I am writing this......because of a seriese of unfortunate events I am now writting this for the third time and I am so not use to this!)
Militncy comes with poverty, unemployment, opression and threat to life. combine that with an Ideology and it becomes extremism. combine that wih gorilla warfare and becomes terorism. suicide bomb vests are not acts of extremiis ideologies but just another efficient way of killing people and inciting mass terror/hysteria to reach goals of gurilla warfare.
Afganis may not have used suicide bomb vests either because of non availability of such weapons, or incapability of such close encounter on the vast deserty roads of Afghanistan that we see in Soviet Invasion movies. whether they used this tool of warfare or not, the original reason for the Soviet invasion was mass millitancy and rebellion within Afghanistan. this they did because of treaties and pacts with the then Afghan Government.
Suicide attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
it has been going on for ages and it is very interesting that the first example in wikipedia should be that of the Knights Templar on Muslims. and do we forget the haralding stories of Pak-soldiers who wore such vests and slid under Indian tanks? or the use of such tactics by us people of the Sub-Continent against the British empire? hence, suicide attacks are tactics of warfare whether it is used by soldiers or militants. and of course as the old saying goes, one mans militant is another mans freadomfighter.
you would find something most interesitng about the 1980s on the link above.
Takfiri:
Takfir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is not a new Ideology as you would read the above. we humans make new Ideologies all the time, and those that dont follow the ideology are evil wrong doers. and then we make nore ideologies to wage war on those who do not follow our ideology word for word! mayhap Hazrat Abu Bakr thaught that the Islamic Ideology was threatend when those people did not want to give zakat, but was it right? dont we beleive that God will Judge every one himself for all these sins? did those 'apostates', Khwarjies and all the rest uptill the modern day ahmadies, desrve to be judged by mortal men as non-beleivers? the same is the case with al-qaeda and the taliban. opressed, uneducated, unemployed people who's families are killed every now and then become militants. if they are hapen to be Muslims, they beleive that to fight agains opreesion is what Muslims should do. they see Muslims being opressed every where and Muslims being killed by other muslims. they feel that their Ideology is threatened. and so, to fight against those who are greater in strenght and power, they devise tactics if gurilla warfare. hence, extremist terorists.
I beleive people are the same whether it be NWFP or Antarctica or even somewhere in the vicinity of beatle juice. whether you poke Bush in the eye, or Dalai Lama.......there not gona be very happy about it!
Take the recent burriul of five woman alive by Balochi extrimists. were'nt they supposed to be extreme in there intrepetation of Islam? and yet they do something which is verbally, litrally, absolutely forbiden by the Quran! some MPA was defending the act as 'TRADITION'?!! well....thats what it comes down to really. People are endowed with their Regional Ideology, and they are driven by it. and us? well.....we were born in a time and (especialy) place where we have had an informational overload. our Ideology is just so mixed up that we flow with every thing that we come to know. but that is what it is is'nt it? we learn, experience and so we grow into the person we are, with a specific set of Ideology.
P.S. after all this I found that I cound'nt like to other websites unless I have at least 15 posts, so I either write a gist of all of them or post stupid whimsicle coments every where. unfortunately for other members I went with the later.
Talk about arguing ones case.......I had to argue with my brothers to give me more time on the internet.

[dr.umer]

mayhap Hazrat Abu Bakr thaught that the Islamic Ideology was threatend when those people did not want to give zakat, but was it right? dont we beleive that God will Judge every one himself for all these sins?

Regarding case of Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA), Islamic ideology was never threatned but implementation of zakat was necessary for the uplift of new Islamic state's economic system.

Research has shown that Zakat system prevents poverty and brings economic stability to society if implemented fully. So what Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) was doing wrong? HE wanted implementation of Zakat system to improve quality of life of Muslims and that's why HE was tough on people to follow this tenent of faith. HE was not punishing them for their sins as you have falsely tried to portray.

If i don't pay my parking tickets, i will be warned but if i am persistant in my denial of law, i will be arrested. So law is not like a lolly pop you give to people and ask them to tell you about the taste. Law HAS to be IMPLEMENTED and Law's implementation can't be achieved if it's obedience is left at will of people to follow it or not.

I don't care what your personal sectarian believes are, but any effort to disrespect any religious figure in any aspect will be discouraged & condemed strongly.

Before judging a pious man like Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA), we should better judge ourselves.

[dr.umer]

(RGHGHR......whomever likes what I write either to agree or agree to disagree for the sake of argument, better be thankfull that I am writing this......because of a seriese of unfortunate events I am now writting this for the third time and I am so not use to this!)

Members of the forum contribute at their will, they are not forced for their contributions neither they are begged by forum for their contributions.

Militncy comes with poverty, unemployment, opression and threat to life. combine that with an Ideology and it becomes extremism. combine that wih gorilla warfare and becomes terorism. suicide bomb vests are not acts of extremiis ideologies but just another efficient way of killing people and inciting mass terror/hysteria to reach goals of gurilla warfare.

I disagree - Crimes not Militancy come with poverty and unemployment. There are many people in India and Pakistan who are poor and unemployed, this means if we go by your theory than most people around us should be wearing a sucide vest?

Cause of militancy can't necessary be oppression though it can be one of the causes. Other causes can be foreign aid, spread of terror and hidden agenda to destabilize Govts.

Afganis may not have used suicide bomb vests either because of non availability of such weapons, or incapability of such close encounter on the vast deserty roads of Afghanistan that we see in Soviet Invasion movies.

Firstly, suicide vests are not sold in weapons market where militants can purchase them. Suicide vests are custom made by militants.

Afghan fighters have used this and still they are using it as a weapon against US and NATO forces.

Also, hollywood movies seldom get shot in Afghanistan due to volatile security situation.

[Spring Onion]

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General Jana (Wow! so Star Warsy)
(RGHGHR......whomever likes what I write either to agree or agree to disagree for the sake of argument, better be thankfull that I am writing this......because of a seriese of unfortunate events I am now writting this for the third time and I am so not use to this!)
Militncy comes with poverty, unemployment, opression and threat to life. combine that with an Ideology and it becomes extremism. combine that wih gorilla warfare and becomes terorism. suicide bomb vests are not acts of extremiis ideologies but just another efficient way of killing people and inciting mass terror/hysteria to reach goals of gurilla warfare.
Afganis may not have used suicide bomb vests either because of non availability of such weapons, or incapability of such close encounter on the vast deserty roads of Afghanistan that we see in Soviet Invasion movies. whether they used this tool of warfare or not, the original reason for the Soviet invasion was mass millitancy and rebellion within Afghanistan. this they did because of treaties and pacts with the then Afghan Government.
Suicide attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
it has been going on for ages and it is very interesting that the first example in wikipedia should be that of the Knights Templar on Muslims. and do we forget the haralding stories of Pak-soldiers who wore such vests and slid under Indian tanks? or the use of such tactics by us people of the Sub-Continent against the British empire? hence, suicide attacks are tactics of warfare whether it is used by soldiers or militants. and of course as the old saying goes, one mans militant is another mans freadomfighter.
you would find something most interesitng about the 1980s on the link above.
Takfiri:
Takfir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is not a new Ideology as you would read the above. we humans make new Ideologies all the time, and those that dont follow the ideology are evil wrong doers. and then we make nore ideologies to wage war on those who do not follow our ideology word for word! mayhap Hazrat Abu Bakr thaught that the Islamic Ideology was threatend when those people did not want to give zakat, but was it right? dont we beleive that God will Judge every one himself for all these sins? did those 'apostates', Khwarjies and all the rest uptill the modern day ahmadies, desrve to be judged by mortal men as non-beleivers? the same is the case with al-qaeda and the taliban. opressed, uneducated, unemployed people who's families are killed every now and then become militants. if they are hapen to be Muslims, they beleive that to fight agains opreesion is what Muslims should do. they see Muslims being opressed every where and Muslims being killed by other muslims. they feel that their Ideology is threatened. and so, to fight against those who are greater in strenght and power, they devise tactics if gurilla warfare. hence, extremist terorists.
I beleive people are the same whether it be NWFP or Antarctica or even somewhere in the vicinity of beatle juice. whether you poke Bush in the eye, or Dalai Lama.......there not gona be very happy about it!
Take the recent burriul of five woman alive by Balochi extrimists. were'nt they supposed to be extreme in there intrepetation of Islam? and yet they do something which is verbally, litrally, absolutely forbiden by the Quran! some MPA was defending the act as 'TRADITION'?!! well....thats what it comes down to really. People are endowed with their Regional Ideology, and they are driven by it. and us? well.....we were born in a time and (especialy) place where we have had an informational overload. our Ideology is just so mixed up that we flow with every thing that we come to know. but that is what it is is'nt it? we learn, experience and so we grow into the person we are, with a specific set of Ideology.
P.S. after all this I found that I cound'nt like to other websites unless I have at least 15 posts, so I either write a gist of all of them or post stupid whimsicle coments every where. unfortunately for other members I went with the later.
Talk about arguing ones case.......I had to argue with my brothers to give me more time on the internet.

So much so for your credibility the wiki pee dia



Now as far your argument about that women burrial incident linking it with Islam well that was case of fedualism not based on religion.

As far as faith of others well indeed Allah is going to decide who is right and who is wrong.

But in case of those who claim to be prophet (nauzobillah) they are out of Islam without any doubt. There is no question of leaving that on day of judgment.

And you need to go and check all those who blew the world trade center were not poor nor unemployed not even Uneducated.

They were much well of, much educated with handsome jobs.

As far as Hazrat Abi Bakar (RA) and his action well a person like you can never even be of any value to even pass a word on him and his charachter.
better go and spend your time on creating cyber games.


As far Takfiri ideology Yes it was there in the history rather its much old ideology.

The Utabies were also Takfiris like Lal Masjid geaks, Baitullah Mehsud and Al-qaeda.

These Takfiris are root casuse of terrorism in this modern era besides they are the ones who are involved in suicide bombing these days.