World War II: USSR Front

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Hitler had to invade USSR, that was the only option he had. USSR always had the intention of invading Germany and Eastern Europe way before the NAZI's came to power, this is proven by the fact that the Red army once tried to invade Poland but failed miserably, and when Hitler was busy securing France Stalin was building up his divisions along the German and Soviet occupied Poland.

Stalin was in no way prepared for anything. He ignored several warnings about an impending attack as well. The fast German thrust into Russia also disagrees with you.

Probably in 42' or 43' he would be in a stronger position to attack and cut Germany's oil supply from Romania.

[Desert Fox]

Hitler had been planning the invasion for over 10 years you cant blame the invasion of Russia on the Russians.

Operation Barbarossa:
The Failure of Nazi Ideology at the Eastern Front

by Paul Fleming, Jr.

On June 22,1941, German troops invaded the USSR, thus beginning one of the most violent and devastating wars ever. The German army (Wehrmacht) had begun planning this invasion in July 1940, under the code name Otto, then Fritz, and finally Barbarossa. <1> In planning the invasion, the Wehrmacht basically had the choice of two strategies: the first was to wage a war of attrition, while the second was to win by military annihilation in the tradition of Napoleon. <2> In choosing, the Germans would have been wise to consider the consequences the latter strategy had in the invasion of Russia for Napoleon. However, the Germans and their Nazi leaders felt that defeating the Soviet Union would be fairly easy, and thus chose the strategy of military annihilation. One reason for this is that the Nazis had been stressing such traditional German concepts as Lebensraum (living space) and Drang nach Osten (push to the East), as well as promoting racism and anti-Semitism. <3> All four concepts "justified" a war of annihilation.

The reasons Germany undertook such an invasion are simple. First, in the 1930s the Nazis had made the "struggle" against Bolshevism a "central theme in domestic and foreign policy." <4> Thus a war against Bolshevik Russia was merely the logical outcome of this belief. Secondly, Germany was still at war with Britain, and Hitler believed that if the Soviet Union could be defeated quickly, the British would be more willing to accept peace terms. <5> Moreover, the Germans had had great success and felt that the USSR. would be "one more lightening victory, particularly fought against the inferior races of the East. <6> Author Alan Bullock gives a much more practical explanation. He states that, "Hitler invaded Russia for the simple but sufficient reason that he had always meant to establish the foundations of his thousand-year Reich by the annexation of the territory between the Vistula and the Urals." <7> These reasons justified, at least in the minds of the Nazi and Wehrmacht leadership, tactics which are today still considered barbaric and immoral.

Operation Barbarossa:

This article you posted reeks of propaganda and politically correct sensationalism.

Hitler invaded USSR not for "Lebensraum", but to defeat Bolshevism before the Bolsheviks invade Eastern Europe and Germany and eventually turning Germany and Eastern Europe into a massive gulag the way they did with Ukraine and Russian countryside.


His fear was justified due to the following reasons:

1).Polish-Soviet war-(1919-1921) When Soviets tried to annex Poland by force, and from there rest of Europe.

2). Fear of Bolshevik communism spreading into Europe. Stories of Bolshevik atrocities in Russia and Ukraine had reached Europe by the 1920's and mid 30's, the mass starvations, force labor camps, man made famines, mass executions and oppressions of religious groups as well as other calamities caused by Bolsheviks which resulted in the deaths of millions of Ukrainians and Russians.
[*] Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[*] Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[*] Bolshevist Atrocities in Siberia
[*] Red Terror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[*] Katyn forest massacre

- Photos taken in 1943 by the Nazis, during - Katyn Forest Massacre

3). Stalin was preparing to invade Europe before Operation Barbarossa:
[*] Stalin's Secret War Plans; Why Hitler Invaded the Soviet Union
[*] Exposing Stalin’s Plan to Conquer Europe
[*] Stalin's plan for the Soviet domination of Europe


"For several years now, a former Soviet military intelligence officer named Vladimir Rezun has provoked heated discussion in Russia for his startling view that Hitler attacked Soviet Russia in June 1941 just as Stalin was preparing to overwhelm Germany and western Europe as part of a well-planned operation to “liberate” all of Europe by bringing it under Communist rule."

Speaking of "Lebensraum", i can give you example of a particular country established with the support of your country by kicking out the natives of that land, but that would be off topic since we are discussing Eastern Front WW2.

[AUSTERLITZ]

Desert fox is a blatant nazi revisionist and apologist.Read hitler's mein kampf and u'll see what is lebensraum and what were his intentions.SAVE EUROPE MY ***.His simple goal was to exterminate the subhuman slavic race and build a massive germanized european empire stretching from urals to the atlantic.
And before u go all gaga over rommel who is a overerated prick btw,read some manstein.

[POST_HUMAN_WAR]

Like the Germans secured Sankt-Petersburg and Stalingrad? Perhaps a few weeks difference but still the same outcome.

Thank you though for crediting the brave ANZAC defence of Greece with winning the war

Unlike Stalingrad and Leingrad Moscow was the capital of the ussr not only that it was also the center of the railway hub, it was the political and administrative center for the ussr taking Moscow might have led to the collapse of the soviet union.

[500]

the Soviets did most of the fighting and would have won the war on their own.

While the Soviets would have won the war themselves

USSR had no chance to stand alone vs. Gremany + Japan. Even Germany alone would result in kind of statemate most probably.

[Desert Fox]

Desert fox is a blatant nazi revisionist and apologist.Read hitler's mein kampf and u'll see what is lebensraum and what were his intentions.SAVE EUROPE MY ***.His simple goal was to exterminate the subhuman slavic race and build a massive germanized european empire stretching from urals to the atlantic.
And before u go all gaga over rommel who is a overerated prick btw,read some manstein.

I love it when people get frustrated over the truth and can't refute me.
Makes me feel good about myself.

[AUSTERLITZ]

Have u even read about ww2?





If this was your family you wouldn't be smiling.
Infact if hitler had won he would have done it eventually to ur family as he thought slavs as subhuman,negros as slave beasts and mongolians as yellow skinned monkeys and asians as mostly animals.Rest of the caucasiand were mostly inferior to the master nordics.He was a ****** excuse for a human being.

[Mercenary]

USSR had no chance to stand alone vs. Gremany + Japan. Even Germany alone would result in kind of statemate most probably.

Thats not true.

Soviet Union could have defeated Germany all on its own.

Germans lost 5,318,000 soldiers killed in World War II

Of those, 4,300,000 were killed on the Eastern Front Against the Soviets (1941-1945)
800,000 died fighting the Western Allies in North Africa + Italy + Western Europe (1940, and 1944-45)
100,000 died fighting against Partisan in Yugoslavia (1941-1945)
100,000 died in Polish, Warsaw uprisings, etc.... (1939 - 1944)

Germans deployed at most 800,000 men at its maximum in December 1944 against the Western Allies. The full German might was concentrated against the Soviets.

If the allies hadn't invaded, it would have taken Soviet Union, maybe another 3 months or so to defeat the Germans.

[Mercenary]

Battlefield's Battle for Russia....Amazing indepth documentary about the German invasion of the Soviet union

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[Juice]

That is incorrect. The red army was fiercely patriotic to Russian motherland and majority of atrocities were committed by Nazi troops.

Hitler's presumption was that even if he loses on eastern front, the Red army won't have the capacity to counter-attack. He was proved gravely wrong. After defending Moscow, the Red army launched a massive counter attack which ended up right in Berlin. It is the Red Army who marched to Berlin, not US or British forces.

There may be one or two nazi sympathisers. They are everywhere not only in Russia. But I do not notice any such substantial trends.



The land lease act was aimed primarily at Britain not really USSR. USSR only received nominal help from the other Allies but definitely not decisive help.

The thing is, Stalin fired the army high command and carried out a purge around 1938, that weakened the Red army substantially and Hitler decided to attack at a time when the Red army was comparatively weak and demoralized.

Well, Moscow was defended in 1942 and the tide of the battle turned after that.

Red Army certainly did the heavy lifting with the Nazis. However, lend lease was very instrumental in helping Russia. Mainly as far as trucks. These allowed the "Blitzkreig" in reverse, to transport troops and supplies (neccessary for mobile warfare). Plus, we met in the middle of Germany, and that while fighting Japanese And Germans, Italians etc. 1000's of miles from our shore.

Even the Red Army did nnot have the nerve to fight them all at the same time.

[Birbal]

Unlike Stalingrad and Leingrad Moscow was the capital of the ussr not only that it was also the center of the railway hub, it was the political and administrative center for the ussr taking Moscow might have led to the collapse of the soviet union.

Not at all. The Soviets were prepared for the fall of Moscow and would simply have moved their administration Eastwards. It would have been like Napoleon's invasion once again.

[Vassnti]

This article you posted reeks of propaganda and politically correct sensationalism.

Hitler invaded USSR not for "Lebensraum", but to defeat Bolshevism before the Bolsheviks invade Eastern Europe and Germany and eventually turning Germany and Eastern Europe into a massive gulag the way they did with Ukraine and Russian countryside.


.

Strange you dont prepare to invade all of Europe buy butchering you officer corp and sending the remainder to a gulag. Plenty of other opinions here if you think the first was just propoganda, so strange that its the Untermensch that are often Hitlers greatest fans.

While most agree that Stalin made extensive preparations for an upcoming war and exploited the military conflict in Europe to his advantage, the assertions that Stalin planned to attack Nazi Germany in the summer of 1941, and that Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler, are generally discounted.[8]

In some countries, particularly in Russia, Germany and Israel, Suvorov's thesis has jumped the bounds of academic discourse and captured the imagination of the public.[1] Among the noted critics of Suvorov's work are Israeli historian Gabriel Gorodetsky, American military historian David Glantz,[9] Russian military historians Makhmut Gareev and Lev Bezymensky, and perhaps his most vehement Russian opponent Alexei Isayev,[10] the author of Anti-Suvorov. Many other western scholars, such as Teddy J. Uldricks,[1] Derek Watson,[11] Hugh Ragsdale,[12] Roger Reese,[13] Stephen Blank,[14] Robin Edmonds,[15] agree that the major Suvorov's writings rest circumstantial evidences,[16] or even on "virtually no evidentiary base"[1] [17] According to Jonathan Haslam, Suvorov's claim that "Germany frustrated Stalin's war"[18] "would be comical were it not taken so seriously".[19]

Soviet offensive plans controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[500]

Thats not true.

Soviet Union could have defeated Germany all on its own.

Germans lost 5,318,000 soldiers killed in World War II

Of those, 4,300,000 were killed on the Eastern Front Against the Soviets (1941-1945)
800,000 died fighting the Western Allies in North Africa + Italy + Western Europe (1940, and 1944-45)
100,000 died fighting against Partisan in Yugoslavia (1941-1945)
100,000 died in Polish, Warsaw uprisings, etc.... (1939 - 1944)

Germans deployed at most 800,000 men at its maximum in December 1944 against the Western Allies. The full German might was concentrated against the Soviets.

If the allies hadn't invaded, it would have taken Soviet Union, maybe another 3 months or so to defeat the Germans.

Thats very true.

1) You forget that most of the German air force was protecting Germany from allied bombers. Air superriority is factor #1 in the war.
2) You forget abot lend lease. It was really huge aid.
3) You forget about 1000 submarines which Germans produces to fight the allies. Each submarine costs like 40 Panther tanks.
4) You forget about tens of thousands of anti aircraft guns which were used against allied bombers. These guns were needed at frontline both in anti air and anti tank roles.
5) Finally as i said u forget about Japan, which was one of the most powerful nations with population much bigger than Germany's.

[Desert Fox]

Strange you dont prepare to invade all of Europe buy butchering you officer corp and sending the remainder to a gulag.

The purges took place in the 1920's and 1930's, Stalin's plan was to invade Europe in 1942 when he rebuilt him army and reestablished his officer corp while hoping Hitler would invade Britain which never happened.

I'm guessing you did not bother reading those sources i posted.

Plenty of other opinions here if you think the first was just propoganda,

So i'm guessing the Polish-Soviet war of 1919-1921 is a myth right? I wonder where Britain was to defend Poland then.

so strange that its the Untermensch that are often Hitlers greatest fans.

So you are now calling me a subhuman? Wow, way to debate maturely. So strange that its always 12 year old's who get on the computer without their parents permission and start typing derogatory remarks against other people.

Soviet offensive plans controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you prove my point that Stalin did indeed intend to invade Europe after all:
From your source:
"While most agree that Stalin made extensive preparations for an upcoming war and exploited the military conflict in Europe to his advantage"

Now coming to this part of your source:

"In some countries, particularly in Russia, Germany and Israel, Suvorov's thesis has jumped the bounds of academic discourse and captured the imagination of the public.[1] Among the noted critics of Suvorov's work are Israeli historian Gabriel Gorodetsky, American military historian David Glantz,[9] Russian military historians Makhmut Gareev and Lev Bezymensky, and perhaps his most vehement Russian opponent Alexei Isayev,[10] the author of Anti-Suvorov. Many other western scholars, such as Teddy J. Uldricks,[1] Derek Watson,[11] Hugh Ragsdale,[12] Roger Reese,[13] Stephen Blank,[14] Robin Edmonds,[15] agree that the major Suvorov's writings rest circumstantial evidences,[16] or even on "virtually no evidentiary base"[1] [17]"

There you go, the answer is pretty much there fore any sane person to see. So called "intellectuals" and "scholars" from Countries where one can get arrested for denying the holocaust but not for drawing cartoons of Islamic Holy figures, are labeling Mr Suvorov's (who is a former Soviet intelligence officer, more reliable of a source than all of these pseudo intellectuals combined) thesis as a joke! Wow, i hope you weren't drunk when you posted this.

So i'm guessing the Polish-Soviet war of 1919-1921 is a myth right? I wonder where Britain was to defend Poland then.

BTW:

Stalin's address to a Politburo meeting on August 19, 1939

"The question of war or peace has entered a critical phase for us. If we conclude a mutual assistance pact with France and Great Britain, Germany will back off from Poland and seek a modus vivendi with the Western powers. War would be avoided, but down the road events could become dangerous for the USSR. If we accept Germany's proposal and conclude a non-aggression pact with her, she will of course invade Poland, and the intervention of France and England in that would be unavoidable. Western Europe would be subjected to serious upheavals and disorder. Under those conditions, we would have a great opportunity to stay out of the conflict, and we could plan the opportune time for us to enter the war."


General Alfred Jodl, one of Hitler's closest military advisors, similarly testified before the Nuremberg Tribunal about Germany's "Barbarossa" attack: (note 4)

"It was undeniably a purely preventive war. What we found out later on was the certainty of enormous Russian military preparations opposite our frontier. I will dispense with details, but I can only say that although we succeeded in a tactical surprise as to the day and the hour, it was no strategic surprise. Russia was fully prepared for war."

New Evidence on the 1941 'Barbarossa' Attack -- Why Hitler Attacked Soviet Russia When He Did (review)


It seems you purposely cut out most of my post and only quote a small portion of it and that too out of context for your own agenda, very mature indeed.

Anyways, since you cut this part (as well as other parts of my post) out like a shrewd 12 year old, i will post the links here again:

1).Polish-Soviet war-(1919-1921) When Soviets tried to annex Poland by force, and from there rest of Europe.

2). Fear of Bolshevik communism spreading into Europe. Stories of Bolshevik atrocities in Russia and Ukraine had reached Europe by the 1920's and mid 30's, the mass starvations, force labor camps, man made famines, mass executions and oppressions of religious groups as well as other calamities caused by Bolsheviks which resulted in the deaths of millions of Ukrainians and Russians.
[*] Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[*] Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[*] Bolshevist Atrocities in Siberia
[*] Red Terror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[*] Katyn forest massacre

- Photos taken in 1943 by the Nazis, during - Katyn Forest Massacre

[jai231179]

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USA provided more than $10 billion dollars to Soviet Union which was massive at that time. The significant portion of US aid went to Britain and USSR.

Agreed. American contribution should not be forgotten. The lend-lease program the USA had with the USSR did prove valuable in the early stages of the conflict.