[5.0] Modern Electronic CountermeasuresThe RCS of an aircraft or other platform is dependent on a number of factors, including size; the materials it is made from, with metals providing a high RCS and composite graphite-epoxy a lower RCS; and the shape, with sharp boxed-in corners acting like corner reflectors and increasing the RCS. Work on "low-observable" aircraft with a low RCS goes back to the 1960s.
I agree with earlier post there are currently and in near future TOO MANY COMBAT types in IAF.
IAF should stick to 3 types
SU30MKI heavey twin engined multi role x 250
mmrca meduim multi role x 126-180 max F18SH/TYPHOON class
LCA MK1 & 2 X 200+ light Multi role..
This force structure is possible over next 10 years at cost of over $20 billion.
Jag mirage2000 mig29 mig21 & mig27 SHOULD BE SCRAPPED BY 2020...
Last edited by sancho; 02-13-2010 at 05:16 PM.
sigh.....f-15 is a 30+ years old bird, and typhoon is a 4.5 generation fighter, so its obvious that typhoon would overpower f-15....
Off topic, but even we here in Switzerland are in the midst of deciding our next generation fighter aircraft. I believe that since your "MRCA" contest is the largest aviation related military contract in this decade, it will have a lot of bearing on our government's decision.
India already has a similar fighter and will get a superior one in that role too, so we need different qualities which the EF might not offer. Switzerland really needs nothing more than the Gripen NG and only if the French reduces the price a lot, maybe the Rafale. But honestly, just for air policing, you don't need an EF.
Last edited by sancho; 02-14-2010 at 04:02 AM.
I can still remind the PAF test pilot Ehsan ul Haq's desire to test thunder against F-15s.....so don't worry that ll help us lift the bar and you know what we can test JF against topnoch ACs with no truble.....EF, Eagles of RSAF and M2Ks, Bl 60 falcons and rafales of UAEAF
"no pain.....no gain" so Thunder will be taking a lot of pain in the coming years mate....which would help it evolve itself to new levels....Our horse will have chances to run with the best....so that it may rise higher than the rest
Switzerland Replacing its F-5s?
The F-5E/F Tiger II was a follow-on upgrade to the wildly successful F-5 Freedom Fighter, a low-budget aircraft designed to capture the lower tier of the non-Soviet global fighter market in the 1960s and 1970s. A number of countries still operate F-5s, but the airframes are very old. The Swiss bought 72 F-5E/F fighters in 1976, and another 38 in 1981, for a total of 110 (98 single-seat F5E, 12 two-seat F-5F). Switzerland currently flies about 54 F-5s; A squadron of 12 were leased to Austria while they await their Eurofighters, and 44 others were sold to the US Navy.
While F-5 owners like Brazil, Chile, Thailand, et . al. have opted for comprehensive refurbishment and upgrades, Switzerland is looking to replace 3 of its 5 Tiger II squadrons with new aircraft under its Tiger-Teilersatz TTE program. The new fighters will partner with the 3 squadrons of upgraded F/A-18C/D Hornets that make up the rest of its fighter fleet. An initial evaluation RFP has been issued to 4 contenders, but Boeing’s withdrawal means the selection is now down to Sweden’s Gripen, France’s Rafale, or EADS’ Eurofighter.
Testing is now complete, and armasuisse has issued its 2nd and final RFP. Left-wing opponents of any military in Switzerland are working hard to derail the purchase, and like the 1993 F/A-18 sale, this purchase will face a national referendum. If it isn’t canceled by the Cabinet first. So far, however, the program is moving forward, and final bids have now been submitted…
The Competition [updated]
Contracts & Key Events [updated]
As the Schweizer Luftwaffe explains in its Jan 17/07 release, without new aircraft the ability to maintain full sovereignty air patrols would decline to just 2 weeks – though 24-hour patrols might be maintained for more than 14 days in a year by shortening the 24 hour coverage periods to a few days at a time, and staggering the periods:
“Sans le remplacement des F-5 Tiger, la capacite de maintenir la sauvegarde de la souverainete sur l’espace aerien, d’assurer le service de police aerienne et de la defense aerienne serait massivement reduite. Avec seulement 33 F/A-18, une presence permanente (24 heures sur 24) de 4 appareils en vol ne pourrait etre assuree que pendant deux semaines environ.”
The expected budget for the replacement program is just CHF 2.2 billion (in March 2009, about $1.95 billion/ EUR $1.45 billion), covering both fighters and a handful of PC-21 turboprop trainers.
With testing complete, Dassault, EADS and Saab were invited to submit a second offer in January 2009, with receipt of those offers expected in April 2009. May 2009 was supposed see the release of the evaluation report prepared by armasuisse, and the Chief of Armament will consult with the Head of the Federal Department of Defence, Civil Protection and Sport (DDPS) and the Commander of the Swiss Air Force. A winner was expected in July 2009, and the Partial Tiger Replacement was expected to be approved by the legislature alongside Armament Program 2010.
That decision was postponed by the military, with no announcement of any kind until 2010. The militar’s evaluation report of the 3 contenders is expected in December 2009, and the Swiss report on security policy is slated for spring 2010.
Approval of the proposed acquisition is now expected as part of Armament Program 2011, assuming that current government’s consensus in favor of the purchase remans in place.
Whichever competitor wins can expect to face more political difficulties after their victory is announced. Switzerland’s purchase of 34 F/A-18 C/Ds, for instance, required a 1993 referendum organized by Switzerland’s socialist and Green parties. The deal passed, but a current political proposal aims to ban “peace-time flights of combat-jets in tourist areas,” a move that would make it almost impossible for the Schweizer Luftwaffe to train its pilots. That has not come to pass yet, but a referendum on the F-5 replacement will take place in 2011, with opposition led by the same group.
Additional initiatives and political maneuvering may be expected from the GSoA (Group for a Switzerland without an Army) coalition as the deal comes close to fruition.
At present, the competitors are BAE/Saab (JAS-39 Gripen), Dassault (Rafale), and EADS (Eurofighter Typhoon). As noted above, the expected budget is just CHF 2.2 billion, to cover at least 22 fighters, plus additional Pilatus PC-21 advanced trainers. The high-end participants in the competition could find themselves very disadvantaged, given Switzerland’s budget and need for numbers.
EADS’ Eurofighter, for instance, would yield about 10-12 aircraft within those constraints, based on Austria’s EUR 2 billion buy of just 18, later reduced to EUR 1.63 billion for 15. It is an excellent air superiority fighter, but Austria’s Tranche 1 models lack precision ground attack capability. In addition, Switzerland is just under 360 km/ 215 miles wide at its widest point, and its firm neutrality keeps its air force from deploying elsewhere.
When these factors are added up, the twin-engine Eurofighter will have a difficult task avoiding the perception of over-budget overkill. The plane’s strongest option would probably be a used aircraft sale from an existing partner nation. That may be a viable option, as Tranche 3 purchases look set to strain member country budgets, but cancellation will attract sharp financial penalties. Selling earlier models is one way to ease that strain.
Dassault’s Rafale offers a comparable set of capabilities to the Eurofighter, at a lower price point. It is generally considered to be an inferior air superiority fighter, but it has good ground attack capabilities that make it a better multi-role aircraft than early Eurofighter models. Its spotty integration with several American weapons used by the Schweizer Luftwaffe could become an issue, and so could its delayed integration with the Damocles surveillance and targeting pod. On the flip side, consistent losses in export competitions (a possible sale to Libya remains its only success) will keep up the pressure on France to offer a very attractive deal. Can Dassault keep its price to about EUR 65 million per plane, including initial training and spares (i.e. 22 aircraft within the budget), and offer weapon integration relief?
The Saab/ BAE team of Gripen International offers the lowest price point of any of these aircraft, with lease-to-buy options underway in Hungary & The Czech Republic and a strong record of industrial offset deals. The Gripen is a solid multi-role performer that is pretty close to the current epitome of what a lightweight fighter should be; its corresponding range handicap, which has often been a limiting factor in fighter competitions against this cohort, is a complete non-issue in this competition.
An offer of 30-34 JAS-39 C/D aircraft that could mirror Switzerland’s 3 squadrons totaling 33 Hornets may be within the realm of financial possibility. JAS-39C/D Gripens would also use an RB12 engine that is closely derived from the F404s powering Switzerland’s Hornets, and are delivered ready to use with the LITENING reconnaissance and targeting pods that Switzerland is buying as upgrades for its Hornet fleet. Given the DDPS’ implicit need for numbers, the industrial offsets, and the potential political bonus of a sale from another neutral country, the Gripen appears to be very well positioned in this fight. The firm’s Jan 17/08 release was already stressing some of these factors.
Gripen weapon options
Boeing’s F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet offered the advantage of some commonalities with Switzerland’s existing F/A-18C/D Hornet fleet, but in truth, commonality between the aircraft is well under 50%. It’s also an expensive aircraft, with likely flyaway costs of $80-90 million. Australia burned through USD$ 1.3 billion for just 24 basic F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft, with radars and other equipment still to be purchased that will likely raise the price to over $2 billion. It is difficult to imagine a scenario in which the Swiss budget yields much more than 15-18 aircraft, though declines in the US dollar have helped.
As is often the case in Europe, opposition to sales from American firms was expected to be a factor for the Super Hornet. Concerns were also expressed about the ability to fit these aircraft into the Swiss aircraft shelters, many of which are carved into mountainsides; prior to the announcement, there had been rumors that the Super Hornet would be excluded from the competition on those grounds. The Super Hornet was a legitimate competitor, but one flying into strong headwinds.
In the end, the questions became moot. Boeing looked at the RFP requirements, and decided not to bid.
Hornet vs. Super Hornet
RAF Typhoon & ASRAAM
It looks like F16 with two engines and slightly different wing shape nothing special
no its not.....its old F-5
i believe at the end of it all in this BVR age avionics & radar as well as air to air weapons & EW suite play the main role the days of the "platform" fighter are over! dog fights will happen but to a lesser degree now...
so a MIG21 can give a fight to a mig-27 or an F-16 with a right avionics package! its just my opinion
no doubt that a better platform acts as a force multiplier & gives added advantages but avionics is the key!
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