Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

[Oscar]

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your argument are verbose and confusing....

I can throw all of your argument out of window in a single stroke but i find it worthless.

I come to your basic premise of him being a show boy....

I understand your problem...this is because of the difference in political setup in India and pakistan. As you have been rules under military dictatorship for so long that you have been conditioned that you think that only few people are the rulers and rest of them are show boys.. In India it doesn't work that way. As you have accused pf him being a show boy...prove it....

As far as bollywood is concerned you people are one of the biggest fan of it.....I guess it again failed the two nation theory

Please go ahead.. we are all waiting.
All you are doing is shooting canards.
If the Maulana was not a showboy.. then the Indian Muslim should reflect it.
either that you are unable to answer with actual related proof on the Indian Muslim.
and not derailments on 71, Balochistan and the usual BS you guys bring up.
Come on... convince me that the Indian Muslim is not suppressed..
When it comes to Bollywood, yeah we love it.. sometimes it gets very accurate.... Have you seen that movie "Anwar"?

[Nitin Goyal]

and if talk of political power...In recently held UP election 65 seats have won by Muslim candidates.

[Pakistanisage]

Thanks for your concerns , any specific intelligent questions ?

You have to admit that the Prophecies made by Maulana Azad about East Pakistan breaking away did come true. Azad believed that Indian Muslims were a force to reckon with as long as they stayed United. Today, Indian Muslims are divided up in three groups and have been weakened as predicted by Azad.

By the way, Maulana Azad was one of us ( Muslims of Sub Continent ), not an Enemy and as such deserves some respect.

[Nitin Goyal]

Please go ahead.. we are all waiting.
All you are doing is shooting canards.
If the Maulana was not a showboy.. then the Indian Muslim should reflect it.

what you want to know -- that indian muslim population is ever increasing in India unlike

They live in peace and harmony with all other religious groups

That we had three muslim president

That we have people like azim premji and lot and lots of muslim politicians and ministers.

[Donatello]

Fairly unrelated example.. since that area was never meant to be part of a larger state in the original vision anyway.
And if there was Hindu-Muslim Unity.. why did you guys not absorb Bangladesh there and then?
And why are you having difficulty now.. you have all the resources if not for those Muslims wishing that they not be enslaved.. Muslims that are labelled as "razakars" even though their parents fought to gain independence from Pakistan.

You are confusing a racial issue with a communal one.

Azad's presidency was somewhat better than Hamid Karzai's.. I must agree.. since he actually did formulate some policies.
But its symbolism was pretty much the same.

Oscar,

Indians tend to bring 1971 whenever they have no replies left or they can't salvage their pea-sized ego.

What the reality is:

That 1971 made Bangladesh an independent state........and the fact that they portray India as having chopped off Pakistan....but in reality if that was the case, they why can't India chop off any more Pakistan?

They couldn't do shyt when Pakistan gave part of it's Kashmir to China right under India's nose.

They are a sorry and shameless nation.


PDF is just going down the drain because of them.

[Pakistanisage]

They may well somersault for the vote but I live in the UK and I have faced discrimination. But I know one country that I belong to that no matter what I face I will not face discrimination on the basis of religion.

Oh and I think there were 40% Muslims in Bosnia and we know what happened there

To compare the merchant muslims of Bosnia to Indian Muslims is an insult to Indian Muslims my friend.

Muslims in undivided India were Martial people who ruled India for over 1000 years. Why did we become so scared of being a huge 40% minority.

I can assure you 40% Muslims would not have faced any discrimination. Forty Percent of Population can bring the govt wheels to a screeching halt.

And that is all Maulana Azad was trying to point out.

[Oscar]

what you want to know -- that indian muslim population is ever increasing in India unlike

They live in peace and harmony with all other religious groups

That we had three muslim president

That we have people like azim premji and lot and lots of muslim politicians and ministers.

Dude ..we've had a Hindu Chief Justice.. so what?
The population is increasing because people like to have sex.. its nothng to do with them being Muslims.
What is the president's actual governing power apart from being head of state..
We've had martial law presidents.. who actually could do something.. not that it was legal..
but in an actual democratic setup that India is.. what is a president if nothing more than a "showpiece" for the people.
My mother's uncle is in politics in UP dude.. he babbles on how he is sidetracked all the time due to both religious and racial reasons....how he doesn't actually have power..
Look at your own Kerala.. Muslims actually developed some sort of an identity there..
why was one section so successful but the rest could not match it.?
Majority perhaps?

[LURKER]

To compare the merchant muslims of Bosnia to Indian Muslims is an insult to Indian Muslims my friend.

Muslims are Martial people who ruled{some parts of} India for over 1000 years. Why did we become so scared of being a huge 40% minority.

there corrected for ya

[Oscar]

there corrected for ya

corrected even further

Muslims are Martial people who ruled{large sections of} India for over 1000 years. Why did we become so scared of being a huge 40% minority.

To compare the merchant muslims of Bosnia to Indian Muslims is an insult to Indian Muslims my friend.

Muslims are Martial people who ruled India for over 1000 years. Why did we become so scared of being a huge 40% minority.

I can assure you 40% Muslims would not have faced any discrimination. Forty Percent of Population can bring the govt wheels to a screeching halt.

But that 40% was never acceptable.. to those that wished to rule...to those in the congress.. and to some vested interests in the league as well.
that 40% was never acceptable during the 37 elections either.. the Congress government gave ample proof of that with the good maulana playing nero's fiddle even then.

and if talk of political power...In recently held UP election 65 seats have won by Muslim candidates.

Out of how many?
In what positions of party leadership.. and do what effect?
How many of them will reflect in the Lok Sabha?

[Pakistanisage]

But that 40% was never acceptable.. to those that wished to rule...to those in the congress.. and to some vested interests in the league as well.
that 40% was never acceptable during the 37 elections either.. the Congress government gave ample proof of that with the good maulana playing nero's fiddle even then.

And that is just the point, Oscar. Jinnah asked for Muslims to get 40% quota in govt jobs in return for Muslim support for undivided India. Nehru rebuffed this offer. Had Jinnah persisted , sooner or later India would have relinquished, if not in 1947 then maybe in the 50's. You cannot ignore 40% of population in a democracy and go on.

[newdelhinsa]

Dude ..we've had a Hindu Chief Justice.. so what?
The population is increasing because people like to have sex.. its nothng to do with them being Muslims.
What is the president's actual governing power apart from being head of state..
We've had martial law presidents.. who actually could do something.. not that it was legal..
but in an actual democratic setup that India is.. what is a president if nothing more than a "showpiece" for the people.
My mother's uncle is in politics in UP dude.. he babbles on how he is sidetracked all the time due to both religious and racial reasons....how he doesn't actually have power..
Look at your own Kerala.. Muslims actually developed some sort of an identity there..
why was one section so successful but the rest could not match it.?
Majority perhaps?

So you are talking about Hindu Show boys of Pakistan ?

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I never knew Jinnah hated Hindus so much, I have lost my respect for him; I am afraid.

Muslim and bigotry is synonymous, I think.

[Aeronaut]

You have to admit that the Prophecies made by Maulana Azad about East Pakistan breaking away did come true. Azad believed that Indian Muslims were a force to reckon with as long as they stayed United. Today, Indian Muslims are divided up in three groups and have been weakened as predicted by Azad.

By the way, Maulana Azad was one of us ( Muslims of Sub Continent ), not an Enemy and as such deserves some respect.

Maulana azad's concept was flawed , Muslims cannot be united -easily-. Bangladesh broke away because of our ill drafted policies not because Maulana azad's so called prophecies. Even if Muslims were united , we still would have been a minority - so where is the logic ? - would you live in a separate country according to your rules in a majority or a country dominated by hindus as a minority even with all your strength ?

So you are talking about Hindu Show boys of Pakistan ?

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I never knew Jinnah hated Hindus so much, I have lost my respect for him; I am afraid.

Muslim and bigotry is synonymous, I think.

All Muslims are bigoted , all Hindus are the best humans can produce - happy ?

To compare the merchant muslims of Bosnia to Indian Muslims is an insult to Indian Muslims my friend.

Muslims in undivided India were Martial people who ruled India for over 1000 years. Why did we become so scared of being a huge 40% minority.

I can assure you 40% Muslims would not have faced any discrimination. Forty Percent of Population can bring the govt wheels to a screeching halt.

And that is all Maulana Azad was trying to point out.

Many have came up with argument , id prefer majority separate state over minority. Muslims & Hindus are two substances like water and crude - they cannot mix together - cannot coexist together- at least not under a Hindu rule.

15% Muslim population has 3% share in the Military and in the parliament , this is how a large minority CAN be avoided in a democracy.

[aristocrat]

Source plz,title of the book??

[Bang Galore]

corrected even further





But that 40% was never acceptable.. to those that wished to rule...to those in the congress.. and to some vested interests in the league as well.
that 40% was never acceptable during the 37 elections either.. the Congress government gave ample proof of that with the good maulana playing nero's fiddle even then.



Out of how many?
In what positions of party leadership.. and do what effect?
How many of them will reflect in the Lok Sabha?

Man, you got your wish; your own country! Good luck & from the tenor of your posts, good riddance! Now kindly stop pissing on the graves of our heroes. Move on...we get it... you don't believe in all the "hindu-muslim unity" stuff. Fine ! Make your country whatever you want, leave us to our & Azad's "delusions". I'm glad your leaders were great otherwise we would still be having this cancerous growth within us. I have no illusions of an united India that could have survived. While we may not accept the concept of the 2NT, we realise that we could have the India we wanted only & only when you chaps separated. So, it worked out best for all of us -for the ones who believed in Azad & the ones who believed in Jinnah. Whatever connections existed in the past, they don't anymore, some 65 years after the separation. We like our constitution & the nature of our state however flawed & untenable you think it is. Azad is our hero, we could not care less what you chaps thought of him .

[aristocrat]

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To me jinnahs outburst depicts his arrogance.COuldnt he have argued reasonably without making personal attacks.