Disproving some genocide claims

[gromell]

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This isn't a multimedia section - where is your evidence establishing genocide and the numbers claimed killed?

it was here. the evidence were there in the clips. i dont know why you deleted them. does anyone in this forum have the right to delete relevant and important posts like that in this forum?!

[gromell]

ok here is a first hand account of a neutral journalist who informs us, by meeting eye witness and victims, minimum 100,000 were killed in a single medium sized district in Bangladesh. there are 64 districts in Bangladesh. In some of them there were more killed. But lets say you take the median value of 100,000 and multiply it with 64, we get more than twice the number of the deads than what is claimed(3,000,000)

[gromell]

1984 World Almanac: up to 1,000,000 civilians were killed.
Hartman: 1,000,000 Bengalis
B&J: 1,000,000 Bengalis
Kuper cites a study by Chaudhuri which counted 1,247,000 dead, and mentions the possibility that it may be as many as 3,000,000.
MEDIAN: 1,000,000-1,250,000
Porter: 1M-2M
Rummel: 1,500,000.
Eckhardt: 1,000,000 civ. + 500,000 mil. = 1,500,000 (Bangladesh)
Harff & Gurr: 1,250,000 to 3,000,000
The official estimate in Bangladesh is 3 million dead. [AP 30 Dec. 2000; Agence France Presse 3 Oct. 2000;
Rounaq Johan: 3,000,000 (in Century of Genocide: Eyewitness Accounts and Critical Views, Samuel Totten, ed., (1997))
Compton's Encyclopedia, "Genocide": 3,000,000
Encyclopedia Americana (2003), "Bangladesh": 3,000,000

[eastwatch]

Nobody denies, even without seeing a few photographs so ardently sent in this thread, that there were heavy killings, specially of Hindus, by the Pakistan army as well as the local Razakars. But, when this figure is made 3,000,000, it becomes a lie. Because, in that case the killing rate becomes a staggering 11,000 or more per day. This is an impossible figure.

Hitler killed 4 million Jews in 5 yrs time with the help of millions of Nazis. The Jews were transported by trains to their detention camps in Poland and other parts of europe, where they died of starvation and in gas chambers. Someone please do the arithmatic to find out the rate of killing per day and compare this figure with the east Pakistan figure. Even Vietnam, after a total of 30 years of fighting against France and then USA, claimed a million plus killed, which they have raised to about 2 million after doing scientific survey for many years. Think of all those napalm bombs with fire radius of 200metres, how these have burnt the villages and killed the people living there.

Any war has its price. We paid the price and we are independent of Pakistan. but, still our politicians want to use our sentiment to score an election win and to keep the BD population at bay so that no normal relationship with Pakistan is built. This is a mean politics.

Instead, BD govt should have made an elaborate survey of the deads immediately after the war. Even today, it is possible to do the job. After the war, Mujib govt called on the people to claim compensation for the deaths of their near relatives. When only 92,000 claims came, the govt just closed the file. There were no more words of compensation from the govt. You have to note that in the 92,000 claims, there were many persons whose names were used for more than one time. It was like when a father claimed his son dead, the uncle also came forward to claim for the same person.

I believe history of any big incident like our Liberation War must be duly researched before publishing it. BD govt can easily do the job of counting the war deaths by asking and then cross-checking a living person's statement. Govt must tabulate the names in every village and mahalla out of respect for those Shaheeds. Otherwise, the confusion will keep on going.

By the way, in any war it is assumed 3 injuries for 1 death. If the 3 million theory is correct, then there should be 8 to 9 million crippled. You do not find such things in BD. While you are in a visit to Vietnam, you will still find many crippled and injured people in that country. I believe there were killings in BD, but not at the tune of what the BD people have been made to believe.

A sports stadium can hold 30,000 or more people. To kill 3 million people, you have to kill people hundred times bigger than that. Can someone tell me how it is possible! BD young people should not believe in such lies that make us cowards in the eyes of the world. Everything should be seen in its true perspective.

[The Malik]

Great post Eastwatch!

[Patriot]

Nobody denies, even without seeing a few photographs so ardently sent in this thread, that there were heavy killings, specially of Hindus, by the Pakistan army as well as the local Razakars. But, when this figure is made 3,000,000, it becomes a lie. Because, in that case the killing rate becomes a staggering 11,000 or more per day. This is an impossible figure.

Hitler killed 4 million Jews in 5 yrs time with the help of millions of Nazis. The Jews were transported by trains to their detention camps in Poland and other parts of europe, where they died of starvation and in gas chambers. Someone please do the arithmatic to find out the rate of killing per day and compare this figure with the east Pakistan figure. Even Vietnam, after a total of 30 years of fighting against France and then USA, claimed a million plus killed, which they have raised to about 2 million after doing scientific survey for many years. Think of all those napalm bombs with fire radius of 200metres, how these have burnt the villages and killed the people living there.

Any war has its price. We paid the price and we are independent of Pakistan. but, still our politicians want to use our sentiment to score an election win and to keep the BD population at bay so that no normal relationship with Pakistan is built. This is a mean politics.

Instead, BD govt should have made an elaborate survey of the deads immediately after the war. Even today, it is possible to do the job. After the war, Mujib govt called on the people to claim compensation for the deaths of their near relatives. When only 92,000 claims came, the govt just closed the file. There were no more words of compensation from the govt. You have to note that in the 92,000 claims, there were many persons whose name was used for more than one time. It was like when a father claimed his son dead, the uncle also claimed for the same person.

I believe history of an incident must be duly researched before publishing it. BD govt can easily do the job of counting its liberation war deaths by asking and then cross-checking a person's statement. Otherwise, the confusion will keep on going.

By the way, in any war it is assumed 3 injuries for 1 death. If the 3 million theory is correct, then there should be 8 to 9 million crippled. You do not find such things in BD. While you are in a visit to Vietnam, you will find many crippled and injured people in that country. I believe there were killings in BD, but not at the tune of what the BD people have been made to believe.

A sports stadium can hold 30,000 or more people. To kill 3 million people, you have to kill people hundred times bigger than that. Can someone tell me how it is possible! BD young people should not believe in such lies that make us cowards in the eyes of the world. Everything should be seen in its true perspective.

Thank you for the neutral opinion.According to Hamood-ur-Rehman commission 55,000 people were killed which includes West Pakistanis, East Pakistanis and Biharis.

[eastwatch]

I am posting herewith some materials of the Vietnam's war against both France and USA, which I have found by Internet surfing. The war started in around 1945 and ended in 1975. Check the figures of their deaths in those two long wars and compare these figures with the figure claimed by the illiterate politicians and their followers in Bangladesh.

BD people must stop unnecessarily crying like babies. BD people are fond of referring to some foreign newspaper reports. But, newspapers are always there to publish sensational things, but one should understand they are not Historians, and they publish a thing without making an attempt to do any research on it.

I call on the govt of BD to to accumulate all the data of war deaths for the sake of history.
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Learn About the Vietnam War

Between 1945 and 1954, the Vietnamese waged an anti-colonial war against France and received $2.6 billion in financial support from the United States. The French defeat at the Dien Bien Phu was followed by a peace conference in Geneva, in which Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam received their independence and Vietnam was temporarily divided between an anti-Communist South and a Communist North. In 1956, South Vietnam, with American backing, refused to hold the unification elections. By 1958, Communist-led guerrillas known as the Viet Cong had begun to battle the South Vietnamese government.

To support the South’s government, the United States sent in 2,000 military advisors, a number that grew to 16,300 in 1963. The military condition deteriorated, and by 1963 South Vietnam had lost the fertile Mekong Delta to the Vietcong. In 1965, Johnson escalated the war, commencing air strikes on North Vietnam and committing ground forces, which numbered 536,000 in 1968.

The 1968 Tet Offensive by the North Vietnamese turned many Americans against the war. The next president, Richard Nixon, advocated Vietnamization, withdrawing American troops and giving South Vietnam greater responsibility for fighting the war. His attempt to slow the flow of North Vietnamese soldiers and supplies into South Vietnam by sending American forces to destroy Communist supply bases in Cambodia in 1970 in violation of Cambodian neutrality provoked antiwar protests on the nation’s college campuses.

From 1968 to 1973 efforts were made to end the conflict through diplomacy. In January 1973, an agreement reached and U.S. forces were withdrawn from Vietnam and U.S. prisoners of war were released. In April 1975, South Vietnam surrendered to the North and Vietnam was reunited.

CONSEQUENCES:

1. The Vietnam War cost the United States 58,000 lives and 350,000 casualties. It also resulted in between one and two million Vietnamese deaths.

2. Congress enacted the War Powers Act in 1973, requiring the president to receive explicit Congressional approval before committing American forces overseas.

It was the longest war in American history and the most unpopular American war of the twentieth century. It resulted in nearly 60,000 American deaths and an estimated 2 million Vietnamese deaths.

Even today, many Americans still ask whether the American effort in Vietnam was a sin, a blunder, a necessary war, or a noble cause, or an idealistic, if failed, effort to protect the South Vietnamese from totalitarian government.

[eastwatch]

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Yes! It was all Indian Propaganda to gain sympathy for Bangladesh in the world and dominate them. But now the people of Bangladesh are finding for themselves the True Facts and have started to hate the Indians for the hovac they created pretending to be Pakistani Army.

Sorry, your statement is also not true. Because no Indian army entered BD before the war of December. Whatever evil was done, it was done by the Pakistan army and its local supporters we call rezakars. Indian army was not responsible for all those crimes against humanity, at least not in BD.

Pakistan intelligence agency had never captured any IA Jawans in BD. Even during war the Indians were not very relaxed, they were always worried about their lives. It was not easy for them to feel safe entering a Muslim lion DERA, they could not trust even the Bangalis.

Only when Indira Gandhi was quite sure of the Bangalis that they would support the IA, only then she decided for an attack. Before the Pakistan-India war, it is the ill-equipped Mukti Fouj that fought the Pak army with quite a success.