Top Indian Myths about Pakistan!

[sensenreason]

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM

Myth 1.
Pakistan lost all 3 wars with India.

Pakistan and India have fought 3 wars - 1948, 1965 and 1971.

Barring 1971 (which occurred while a civil war, assisted by India, was raging in East Pakistan), no war has resulted in a decisive 'victory' for either side.

Myth 2.
Pakistan fights through proxies

Well, this is true. Pakistan has supported Kashmiri Freedom fighters in Indian Occupied Kashmir, and did support the Mujahideen (with US and Saudi support) and later the Taliban.

However, this allegation by Indians completely overlooks India's own long association with proxy groups.

1. Supported proxies that destabilized East Pakistan for many years leading into 1971
2. Supported the LTTE (Tamil Tigers) - a terrorist organization in Sri Lanka
3. Supported the Northern Alliance - a group of warlords and criminals in Afghanistan
4. Supported Baluch insurgents in Pakistan

Myth 3.
India has never committed aggression against Pakistan, or any other country.
This is clearly not the case as seen below

1. Support for insurgents in East Pakistan leding into 1971 and the ensuing war
2. Support for the LTTE (a terrorist organization in Sri Lanka) against the Sri Lankan State
3. The invasion of Siachen in 1984 in clear violation of the Simla Accord
4. Support for the Baluch insurgency

Myth 4.
Pakistan spends 70% (or more, depending upon the Indian) of its budget on Defense.

Pakistan's defence budget for 2009 was about 4.4 billion USD. With a GDP of about 160 billion USD and a budget of 33 billion USD, that works out to be about 2.75% of GDP and 13.3% of the total budget.
PAKISTAN'S TOTAL OUTLAY IN 2007-08 BUDGET TO BE ABOUT US$33 BLN. | Goliath Business News

This compares with an Indian defence budget of about 26 billion that is 14.4% of the total budget and about 2.3% - so what's the big deal with Pakistan's defence budget?

Myth 5.
Pakistani politics is dominated by Kashmir

This argument goes along the lines of 'the Army/leadership makes sure that the only thing Pakistanis are aware of is Kashmir, and in this way distracts them from socio-economic issues and avoids investing in development'.

No doubt most Pakistanis are aware of Kashmir, but the fact that we have cutthroat national politics, with political parties that have significant ideological differences, it is absurd to suggest that the only issue mentioned during stump speeches is 'Kashmir'.

Most of the PR and advertisements run by Pakistani political parties in fact focus on providing development and bringing about prosperity, not Kashmir. Most politicians talk about providing, jobs, investment etc. and most Pakistanis vote on that basis - even when voting on biraadri lines since they believe 'their guy' will provide them with economic opportunity/favors.

The political process in Pakistan remains largely driven by issues that are important to most people elsewhere in the world - jobs, inflation, development etc.

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Feel free to offer suggestions on changes, additions, improvements and I'll incorporate them if I think they are appropriate.

Im sure both sides have mytical beliefs about each other...

Myth 1 - I agree only in 71 Pakistan lost territory and therefore accepts 'defeat'. So the fact that Pakistan survived 'intact' in 48 and 65,is to its credit and India's discredit and therefore has the legroom to 'fashion/spin' the lack of decisive loss as a 'victory of sorts'

However, the Indian myth as you allege is not that we won territory in 65 and therefore won...just that if the war had continued Pakistan would have lost territory....48 is not really discussed /debated ecept to the extent of what you call Azad Kashmir and India '***....this is part of the dispute by Pakistan of Kashmir anyways...so no 'attention' is paid to the fact that there was a conflict in 48.

However, there is no MYTH about India having WON any territory of Pakistan or its surrender...

The Pakistani arguement on 65/48 is nuanced by it being the smaller country and in a way clutches to the straws about a advantage here and a battle won there...

The problem is not the belief but the context. Pakistan is proud of holding its own (the Pakistani belief) against the 'stronger', better 'equipped' defence forces but with WORSE (pakistani belief) manpower (this itself is a myth..debated at length elsewhere); while Indians view these wars a little more distantly as an obstacle that we have in our neighbourhood being peaceful and the whole ..partition business...

Whats indicative of who has the the more potent myths is the Pakistani belief that everything was hunky dory in the East Pakistan and India just played a 'dirty' game and the defeat is then spun as having mutiple dimensions of logistics, geopolitics, support to insurgency etc...whats ignored is that the 'possibility' for a Pakistani to 'BELIEVE' that they could have lost the 71 war...even if those pitfalls didnt exist

Will comment on other Myths later...

[Blowdata4u]

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[Hari]

Friends,

I recently asked my friends[Only Indians] whether Riots after Partition was the reason why India and Pakistan are not good neighbours. Most of them replied that If we didnt support Mukti - Bahini then our relationship could not have gone worse, What do you feel

[Jana]

Originally Posted by Hari

Friends,

I recently asked my friends[Only Indians] whether Riots after Partition was the reason why India and Pakistan are not good neighbours. Most of them replied that If we didnt support Mukti - Bahini then our relationship could not have gone worse, What do you feel

A simple question why Your relations with Bangladesh are not good then? (the hatred towards Bangladeshis by Indians, terimg them un-wanted in India)

[arihant]

Originally Posted by Jana

A simple question why Your relations with Bangladesh are not good then? (the hatred towards Bangladeshis by Indians, terimg them un-wanted in India)

Hatred ? It's propogando. You never know when munshi or idune arrive here. They will even post bad about India when discussion is going about US-Canada Friendship. So, nothing new in that. I personally met with some bangladeshi (graphics designer). They don't hate India but they do get news about BD Civilians being killed by BSF. I just told that why they are being killed.

So that made my mind set that Real BD don't hate us.

[RiazHaq]

Indians get a highly distorted picture of Pakistan through their mass media, according to two observers who have had a chance to compare India and Pakistan:


"Islamabad is surely the most well-organized,picturesque and endearing city in all of South Asia. Few Indians would, however, know this, or, if they did, would admit it. After all, the Indian media never highlights anything positive about Pakistan, because for it only 'bad' news about the country appears to be considered 'newsworthy'. That realization hit me as a rude shock the moment I stepped out of the plane and entered Islamabad's plush International Airport, easily far more efficient, modern and better maintained than any of its counterparts in India.

Yoginder Sikand
10 June, 2008
Countercurrents.org

"On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India.

William Dalrymple
14 August, 2007
The Guardian

Haq's Musings: Foreign Visitors to Pakistan Pleasantly Surprized

[MilesTogo]

This is great. We need to catch up.

Originally Posted by RiazHaq

Indians get a highly distorted picture of Pakistan through their mass media, according to two observers who have had a chance to compare India and Pakistan:


"Islamabad is surely the most well-organized,picturesque and endearing city in all of South Asia. Few Indians would, however, know this, or, if they did, would admit it. After all, the Indian media never highlights anything positive about Pakistan, because for it only 'bad' news about the country appears to be considered 'newsworthy'. That realization hit me as a rude shock the moment I stepped out of the plane and entered Islamabad's plush International Airport, easily far more efficient, modern and better maintained than any of its counterparts in India.

Yoginder Sikand
10 June, 2008
Countercurrents.org

"On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India.

William Dalrymple
14 August, 2007
The Guardian

Haq's Musings: Foreign Visitors to Pakistan Pleasantly Surprized

[SMC]

It's no secret that Pakistan's city are cleaner and have less beggers and have better infrastructure. Islamabad takes the cake but Lahore and Karachi are certainly ahead as well. Indians believe otherwise due to the massive media conditioning but I couldn't care less about that because ground realities are different.

[arihant]

Originally Posted by Ahsan_R

It's no secret that Pakistan's city are cleaner and have less beggers and have better infrastructure. Islamabad takes the cake but Lahore and Karachi are certainly ahead as well. Indians believe otherwise due to the massive media conditioning but I couldn't care less about that because ground realities are different.

I am aware that Pakistan city's are cleaner and more importantly I saw it on Media. Could not remember which one.

[SMC]

Now that's a surprise. Oh well, I can't complain.

[Novice09]

Originally Posted by Jana

A simple question why Your relations with Bangladesh are not good then?

Win-win Indo-Bangladesh bilateral relationship

Points from this article:

- myopic external policies of both the countries.

- In our country, two mainstream political parties are politicizing the relationship with India, since long. In this situation, a party, just for raising a controversy, must dislike what the other party likes. In doing so, they are getting callous about the interest of the nation. The foreign policy should be pursued, taking the interest of the nation into a dispassionate consideration. Politics should be for only the sake of the country. As a common man, I would like to see a pro-active relationship with India.

- We gratefully acknowledge the support that we received from India during our War of Liberation. But both the countries should understand that relationship with each other should not be based only on the scenario of the War of Liberation.

- In relationship with Bangladesh, India has not been able to prove its sincerely as a friendly neighbour, largely because of its suspicious and paradoxical attitude. Except for the historical contribution to our War of Liberation, nothing friendly has really developed in the relationship between the two countries.

-The people of Bangladesh want to see peaceful cooperation and friendly relations with India develop in a win-win situation for both sides.

Originally Posted by Jana

(the hatred towards Bangladeshis by Indians, terimg them un-wanted in India)

We don't hate Bangladeshis but we don't like those Bangladeshis who are illegally living in India. Most of them are involved in crimes and terrorist activities. They are a burden on Indian economy.

You might not agree with my points but that is why they are unwanted in India.

Most Bangladeshi infiltrators involved in flesh trade, petty crime - Express India

Fake currency racket busted, 4 with Bangla link arrested - Delhi - City - The Times of India

[Novice09]

Originally Posted by Ahsan_R

Now that's a surprise. Oh well, I can't complain.

Your major cities are cleaner than Indian metro cities. It's a fact and we can't deny it without proofs.

[indianrabbit]

While I believe we have myths. I got to know lot from this forum. I also want to point out that Pakistani's also have lot of myths about India. It is important that we make effort to clear our myths, like I am doing. I can see how our myths impact our discussion in lot of threads. I think media and history is not projecting facts on both sides.

[desiman]

Indian reply posted

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strateg...tml#post561360

Please have a look to see the other side of the coin.

[jaunty]

Originally Posted by RiazHaq

Indians get a highly distorted picture of Pakistan through their mass media, according to two observers who have had a chance to compare India and Pakistan:


"Islamabad is surely the most well-organized,picturesque and endearing city in all of South Asia. Few Indians would, however, know this, or, if they did, would admit it. After all, the Indian media never highlights anything positive about Pakistan, because for it only 'bad' news about the country appears to be considered 'newsworthy'. That realization hit me as a rude shock the moment I stepped out of the plane and entered Islamabad's plush International Airport, easily far more efficient, modern and better maintained than any of its counterparts in India.

Yoginder Sikand
10 June, 2008
Countercurrents.org

"On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India.

William Dalrymple
14 August, 2007
The Guardian

Haq's Musings: Foreign Visitors to Pakistan Pleasantly Surprized

Sir, I think you have already advertised that particular section of your blog at some other place. (Sorry I couldn't resist).

Yes, I personally have learned about many new sides of Pakistani society by opening up my mind in the last few months which we generally don't get here through popular media.