Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

[UnitedPak]

Salaam people.

This is my first post on this forum, and I must say, I am really starting to like this place. I would like to ask Pakistanis a simple question. Why is our Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

Pakistans history starts with the Indus Valley civilisation, which is more than 5000 years old and was on par with civilisations like Egypt and Mesopotamia, it was based almost entirely in modern Pakistan, and all the major cities are in Pakistan.

Our fellow Pakistanis have totally ignored this part of our history, and given the Indians full access to steal it, and label it Indian.
I dont know what amuses me more, an Indian claiming IVC is Indian even though its not even in India, or a Pakistani ignoring this great chapter of our history because its not "Islamic".

It doesnt stop here however. There are lots of other civilisations which were based in Pakistan, and run by Pakistanis, i.e Ghandara, Kushun empire, and even Muslim empires like Mughal empires started in Pakistan, and spread into India.

So why why and why do we allow India to take credit of everything?
They talk about "Pakistan being created", like Pakistan is a baby, and Pakistanis didnt exist before 1947. This is the whole reason why Indian nationalists believe they own Pakistan.
They take it one step further and our leaders like Quid-e-Azam are officially known as "Indians", (look it up on wikipedia).

So please let me know your opinions regarding this. Pakistan has an unbelievably big history book, but we "proudly" go on about 60 years of Independence?


p.s Pakistan wasnt created in 1947, it was our Independence. Please dont promote Indian views.

Thank you for reading, I am looking forward to read your views.

W/Salaam.

[roadrunner]

It is good to see you here UP. What you are saying here is really such an important part of Pakistani identity that sets Pakistan apart from any other country in the world. One word, education, in fact two, lazyness on the part of Pakistanis, a third, antipathy causes all this. Keep posting what you do, sooner or later it'll catch up with the majority of Pakistanis who can claim aspects of historical achievements of their ancestors, instead of letting the world believe it was Bharati ancestors that had a civilization as advanced as the Indus Valley, when they do not. So much of the history of the subcontinent has been falsified, somehow you need to disclose the facts in a simple enough manner that these people can absorb them. Else they just ignore it because it becomes too mentally taxing. I'd suggest posting things one at a time in real simple English to get your points across. (if you can type well in Urdu, then that's another way).

[niaz]

A lot of Pakistanis appreciate and are proud of their ancient heritage. It is only the mulla party and extremists who believe that our history started with Mohammad Bin Qassim. This is an extremely narrow minded attitude. This land what is now called Pakistan existed since the dawn of history. Indus valley civilization existed 3000 years ago. Gandhara flourished at the time of Kushans ( Kanishka) 2,000 years ago.

However, if MMA and its supporters insist that they dropped in with the Arab invasion in 712 AD and their history starts from that period, they are welcome to their view point but this wont change the facts.

[blitz]

Whoa this is hilarious !! Pakistanis is so desperate for 'respect' and 'legitimacy' that now you guys even want to steal Indian history ? haha. Piece of land does not a civilization make. A civilization is a set of traditions, set of ethics, rituals, religions, way of life, etc.

In India the religion, traditions of ancient 'Indian' civilizations are still practiced, hence the civilizations are Indian. Pakistan was but a small part of the larger 'India'.

Pakistan gave up its claim to this civilizational inheritance the day it chose to be an 'Islamic Republic'. Pakistan has as much claim to IVC as the modern Egyptians have to the ancient Egyptian civilization i.e. nil, nada, zilch. Pakistan is an offshoot of Arabic civilization now. The sooner you accept it, the less heartburn shall you suffer.

Otherwise you are welcome to wage your 'jihad' against world history. I don't think the prospects of success are too bright though.

[UnitedPak]

Nice to see people that know of Pakistans history.

Indians promote a very simple version of history to feel more secure about themselves. Their story shows that only 3 countries existed in "ancient times", and that was Persia, India and China. This is a very bs view since China and India were never United like today. The region of Pakistan has been independent from India for 95% of the time. And India itself was never one country, apart from Ashokas rule which lasted an "amazing" 30 years.

The region of Pakistan, (lets call it Indus Valley), was part of Persia, while India was not, it was also the only part invaded in the so called "Alexanders Invasion of India".
Only Pakistans Punjab was invaded, so Porus Kingdom is Pakistani, and not Indian.
And during the Afghan empire, Pakistan and India had a border between them, which was amazingly similar to the modern border we have today.

As for Pakistans history starting with the Arab general, that would be a start, but Indian dominated text books usually ignore the 2 nation theory. They seem to think "India" is another word for South Asia.
They are too busy promoting that Pakistanis and Indians are the "same people", which once again doesnt make sense. Punjab is the only shared state we have with them, and Punjabi Muslims and Sikhs have not mixed for centuries, so are different from each other as it is.

Hopefully we can do something about it. I am tired of all this propaganda out there. Western Media might be keen on promoting this so called Booming India, but distorting history should not be allowed.

[UnitedPak]

Originally Posted by blitz

Whoa this is hilarious !! Pakistanis is so desperate for 'respect' and 'legitimacy' that now you guys even want to steal Indian history ? haha. Piece of land does not a civilization make. A civilization is a set of traditions, set of ethics, rituals, religions, way of life, etc.

In India the religion, traditions of ancient 'Indian' civilizations are still practiced, hence the civilizations are Indian. Pakistan was but a small part of the larger 'India'.

Pakistan gave up its claim to this civilizational inheritance the day it chose to be an 'Islamic Republic'. Pakistan has as much claim to IVC as the modern Egyptians have to the ancient Egyptian civilization i.e. nil, nada, zilch. Pakistan is an offshoot of Arabic civilization now. The sooner you accept it, the less heartburn shall you suffer.

Otherwise you are welcome to wage your 'jihad' against world history. I don't think the prospects of success are too bright though.

A very typical narrow minded Indian reply.

What you cant seem to understand is that simply because Pakistanis converted to Islam doesnt make their ancestors Indian.
You seem to think Pakistani genes changed when they converted to Islam?

Islam is a way of thinking and living, doesnt change who Pakistanis used to be.

You have a very limited view if you ask me. But what to expect from a bunch of phoney people with nothing better to do.

[blitz]

There is a reason why Pakistan i said to lie within the "Indian Sub-continent". Need i say more ?

[blitz]

Originally Posted by UnitedPak

A very typical narrow minded Indian reply.

What you cant seem to understand is that simply because Pakistanis converted to Islam doesnt make their ancestors Indian.
You seem to think Pakistani genes changed when they converted to Islam?

Islam is a way of thinking and living, doesnt change who Pakistanis used to be.

You have a very limited view if you ask me. But what to expect from a bunch of phoney people with nothing better to do.

Of course i am narrow minded and moronic with nothing better to do. You on the other hand seem very wide minded, brilliant and with much better things to do. So i suggest you continue with your 'jihad' against history to satisfy your ego. Really doesn't change things one bit either way.

[blitz]

"Islam is a way of thinking and living."

Civilization is also a way of thinking and living. Hence the term, 'Islamic civilization'.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by blitz

you guys even want to steal Indian history ? haha.

What "Indian" (in this case Bharati) history would Pakistanis be stealing by claiming the Indus Valley Civilization/ Gandhara as their own?

Piece of land does not a civilization make. A civilization is a set of traditions, set of ethics, rituals, religions, way of life, etc.

Nonsense. A civilization is specific to a certain time. Indus Valley was advanced for its time. Current Bharat can copy them (Hinduism is not the same as the religion of the Indus Valley civilization), but Bharat or Bharatis played no part in the inventions, or the development or the thinking/creativity of the Indus Valley Civilization or Gandhara.

In India the religion, traditions of ancient 'Indian' civilizations are still practiced, hence the civilizations are Indian. Pakistan was but a small part of the larger 'India'.

Oh please! If America starts following an Asian culture, Asia does not become "American", rather America will adopt an Asian culture. This is what might have happened in India/Bharat. The Bharatis have adopted an ancient Pakistani culture..this does not make the ancient cultures Indian. What has happened is more sinister. India/Bharat has stolen the name India from the ancient Vedic people of Pakistan, and tried to steal its history in the process. It's only a matter of time before this is rectified, since your arguments lack logic.

Pakistan gave up its claim to this civilizational inheritance the day it chose to be an 'Islamic Republic'.

Not sure I understand this. The people of the civilization were ancestors of modern Pakistanis, the civilizations existed within modern day Pakistan. This makes the historically Pakistani civilizations.

Pakistan has as much claim to IVC as the modern Egyptians have to the ancient Egyptian civilization i.e. nil, nada, zilch. Pakistan is an offshoot of Arabic civilization now. The sooner you accept it, the less heartburn shall you suffer.

Islam isn't a civilization you know. How are the ancient Egyptian civilizations not Egyptian? Who do they not belong to, if not modern day Egyptians? Do not be absurd.

Otherwise you are welcome to wage your 'jihad' against world history. I don't think the prospects of success are too bright though.

Prospects are very bright. Everyday I see new websites popping up about it, and even clarifications from international authors in the field to mention Pakistan specifically.

[UnitedPak]

Originally Posted by blitz

Of course i am narrow minded and moronic with nothing better to do. You on the other hand seem very wide minded, brilliant and with much better things to do. So i suggest you continue with your 'jihad' against history to satisfy your ego. Really doesn't change things one bit either way.

Of all the people, an Indian goes on a rant about Jihad. No Pakistani in this thread so far has brought Islam into the discussion. You are the one in denial, and you just proved you barely understand the history of Pakistan.

"Pakistan gave up its claim to this civilizational inheritance the day it chose to be an 'Islamic Republic'."

So by your argument, if you converted to Islam right now, your parents wont be related to you anymore???

I know the media is biased against Islam, but jeez, calm down on the dosage of Fox news, it really isnt good for you.

[TOPGUN]

Okk enough is enough to all ur indian friends please shoe some repesct or dont come on this site lets have frendly posts and talks if you are inmatture then please dont come on this site its really dumm thaks and GOD bless Pakistan .

Regards,
TOPGUN.

[Asim Aquil]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

Okk enough is enough to all ur indian friends please shoe some repesct or dont come on this site lets have frendly posts and talks if you are inmatture then please dont come on this site its really dumm thaks and GOD bless Pakistan .

Regards,
TOPGUN.

Please do not make sweeping declarations which are best left for the defence.pk staff.

Defence.pk encourages serious debate from all nationalities, ethnicities and creeds.

[UnitedPak]

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Please do not make sweeping declarations which are best left for the defence.pk staff.

Defence.pk encourages serious debate from all nationalities, ethnicities and creeds.

Totally agree with you, but Blitz has only been insulting us by name calling and going on rants about Jihad. He has had nothing intelligent to say so far.

Well, apart from believing that converting to Islam changes your parents.

[blitz]

Originally Posted by UnitedPak

Totally agree with you, but Blitz has only been insulting us by name calling and going on rants about Jihad. He has had nothing intelligent to say so far.

Well, apart from believing that converting to Islam changes your parents.

Wow talk about lying through one's nose.

Originally Posted by UnitedPak

A very typical narrow minded Indian reply.

What you cant seem to understand is that simply because Pakistanis converted to Islam doesnt make their ancestors Indian.
You seem to think Pakistani genes changed when they converted to Islam?

Islam is a way of thinking and living, doesnt change who Pakistanis used to be.

You have a very limited view if you ask me. But what to expect from a bunch of phoney people with nothing better to do.

I suppose thats not insulting eh ? And now show us where have i insulted you or anyone else ? Isn't waging 'Jihad' supposed to be a duty for all muslims, or are you telling me that 'jihad' is a derogatory term ?

You must learn to differentiate between sarcasm and insults.