Disproving some genocide claims

[roadrunner]

Claims of Hindu genocide in East Pakistan

Some Indian websites (e.g. http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_histor...du_bangla.html or http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.co.../genocide.html and Bhorat)) think they “prove” that a Hindu genocide of 2.5 million Hindus occurred during 1971 in Bangladesh.

They all over simplify their calculations by not taking into account fertility and migrational differences between the Hindus and rest of the population at the time (other differences would probably affect the figures as well, such as floods and famines etc, but will be ignored for the time being).

The total population of Bangladesh in 1974 = 71.4 million
The total population of East Pakistan in 1961 = 51 million

Factor by which the population increased between 1961-1974 = 1.4

This factor is used to calculate the expected Hindu population of Bangladesh in 1974 from most websites claiming a Hindu genocide occurred
But this factor assumes similar fertilities of the Hindu and Muslim (majority) populations. This is not true as the following articles clearly show.

The Association for Land Reform and Development (ALRD), an NGO based in Dhaka states that "the implementation of Enemy Property Act \ Vested Property Act has accelerated the process of mass out-migration of Hindu population from mid 1960s onward. The estimated size of such out-migration (missing Hindu population) during 1964-1991 was 5.3 million, or 538 persons each day since 1964, with as high as 703 persons per day during 1964-1971.……………………………..... during the same period, the fertility rate among the Hindu population was 13 per cent less than the fertility rates among the Muslim population (estimate based on recent contraceptive use rates). Due to the lack of any reliable fertility estimates, the rate for the Muslims was estimated using an indirect method (Mauldin measure), based on contraceptive prevalence rates……………

The Hindu Minority in Bangladesh: Legally Identified Enemies

Another article from the Journal of Biosocial Science confirms that the fertility rates of Hindus and Muslims in 1970s Bangladesh was not the same

Using a unique set of birth registration data from the Demographic Surveillance System of the International Center for Diarrheal Disease Research, Bangladesh, for the period 1974-77, ……The age-specific fertility rates by religion show that Muslims had higher fertility at all ages in 1974 and 1977 and at older ages in 1975 and 1976. Overall, however, fertility of Hindus is consistently lower than that of Muslims, but the relative differences are under 10%.………

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...858&query_hl=2

So Hindu fertility rates were most likely between about 10 and 13% less than Muslim fertility rates between 1961-1974 (by extrapolating the information to the previous decade).

So take the higher of the Hindu fertility rates quoted (10%, Journal of Biosocial Science), and adjust the factor of 1.4 to accommodate for the lower Hindu fertility rate.

0.9 X 1.4 = 1.26

Hindu population in 1961 in East Pakistan (modern day Bangladesh) = 9.4 million
Expected Hindu population in 1974 =
1.26 X 9.4 million = 11.8 million
Actual Hindu population in Bangladesh in 1974 = 9.6 million

Unaccounted for Hindus = 11.8 million - 9.6 million = 2.2 million.

This figure does not include migration of Hindus out of Bangladesh during this period (very few Hindus immigrated into bangladesh during the same time and can be considered negligible)

Accounting for migration
The first article quoted above states that “The estimated size of such out-migration (missing Hindu population) during 1964-1991 was 5.3 million, or 538 persons each day since 1964, with as high as 703 persons per day during 1964-1971”

Between the 8 years of 1964-1971, around 703 Hindu emigrations per day from Bangladesh took place
Total Hindu emigrations between 1964-1971 = 703 X 365 X 8 = 2.1 million. This leaves only 0.1 million Hindus unaccounted for (2.2 million - 2.1 million)

Between 1972-1974, there were perhaps 480,000 more Hindu emigrations ([5.3 million - 2.1 million] / 20 = 0.16 million emigrants per year. (Figure of 20 is years from 1972-1991). This figure is based on the article above, stating that "The estimated size of such out-migration (missing Hindu population) during 1964-1991 was 5.3 million, or 538 persons each day since 1964".

This would completely account for any remaining Hindus expected to be in the population by 1974.

I do realize that some Hindus on this board will be disappointed there is no proof of a Hindu genocide in that war, but let me assure you, killing is bad!

[mujahideen]

I BELIEVE THAT THEIR WAS GENOCIDE COMMITED IN BANGLADESH, BUT SOMETIMES IT IS OVER EXAGERATTED. NOW I REALLY DONT KNOW HOW MANY HINDU BENGALIS WERE KILLED, BUT ACCORDING TO SOME ESTIMATES THIER WERE 3 MILLION BENGALIS KILLED IN TOTAL. NOW ACCORDING TO BENGALI NEWSPAPERS THEY SAY MORE WERE KILLED AND IF YOU ASK A PAKISTANI NEWSPAPER THEY WILL SAY LESS PEOPLE WERE KILLED. EVERY PERSON HAS THEIR OWN BIAS, SO WE HAVE TO BE CARFUL WHOM WE ASK.

[Neo]

Dude, whats with the Caps in all your posts?

[mujahideen]

Originally Posted by Neo

Dude, whats with the Caps in all your posts?

MAN I ALWAY WRITE WITH CAPS. DONT WORRY ITS NOT SMYBOLIC FOR ANYTHING. ANYWAY FOCUS ON THE MAIN SUBJECT NOT MY WRITING.

[Neo]

Well we don't allow it here, please turn it off if you want to continue posting.
Thanks!

[mujahideen]

Originally Posted by Neo

Well we don't allow it here, please turn it off if you want to continue posting.
Thanks!

My bad i didn't know that.

[Neo]

Thank you and welcome to the forum!

Post a little intro in members intro section so we can give you a proper welcome.

Neo

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by mujahideen

I BELIEVE THAT THEIR WAS GENOCIDE COMMITED IN BANGLADESH, BUT SOMETIMES IT IS OVER EXAGERATTED. NOW I REALLY DONT KNOW HOW MANY HINDU BENGALIS WERE KILLED, BUT ACCORDING TO SOME ESTIMATES THIER WERE 3 MILLION BENGALIS KILLED IN TOTAL. NOW ACCORDING TO BENGALI NEWSPAPERS THEY SAY MORE WERE KILLED AND IF YOU ASK A PAKISTANI NEWSPAPER THEY WILL SAY LESS PEOPLE WERE KILLED. EVERY PERSON HAS THEIR OWN BIAS, SO WE HAVE TO BE CARFUL WHOM WE ASK.

It's been discussed in another thread. The 3 million is a mathematical impossibility. And even the Bangaldeshi Ambassador and people from Dhaka University dont agree with it. Discuss that in another thread though. This is for Hindu Bengalis. There was no genocide..Just manipulation of the data by some Hindutva sites.

[mujahideen]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

There was no genocide..Just manipulation of the data by some Hindutva sites.

Well about the genocide part, a discussion from both sides can be made. but it is true that some Hindu sites have exagerrated the whole thing, thier only purpose is to defame Pakistan, nd we as Pakistanis mustn't allow that to happen.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by mujahideen

Well about the genocide part, a discussion from both sides can be made.

Accusations need to be proven. And currently noone has provided any proof of a genocide. There is a thread on this. You can see the arguments there. Not one single bit of proof exists that points to a genocide taking place.

but it is true that some Hindu sites have exagerrated the whole thing, thier only purpose is to defame Pakistan, nd we as Pakistanis mustn't allow that to happen.

Give all your evidence for a genocide in the Bangladesh war thread. It's somewhere around. Noone presented any evidence, aside from lots of newspaper clippings, which hardly amount to any proof.

[AgNoStIc MuSliM]

The thread you are referring to starts from here I believe:
Creation of Bangladesh

[salman nedian]

To understand this first of all we need to go back to 1950’s when “language Movement” started the Hindu professors of Dhaka university act as a catalyst in that movement also remember the concept of separate economies for both parts of Country(one of Sheikh Mujib’s six points)was also given by the Hindu professors of Dhaka University. Actually the efforts to split the Eastern part were started by India way back in 1950’s and at that time we were building our new country so our media was not powerful at that time and both the parts of country were separated from each other by 1000 miles the Hindus of East Pakistan participated actively in India’s game and due to lack of communication we were trapped. a little genocide may be the result of realization that Hindus were actively participating in the Indian efforts of disintegrating Pakistan other wise I don’t believe that there were mass killings of Hindus in East Pakistan.

[azmax007]

I'm a Bangladeshi and I'm also a history major and I think the 3 million people genocide mark is a ridiculous lie. It's true that the Pakistani army committed atrocities of murder and rape but the number is soooo inaccurate.

The Pakistani army at that time did not have that much advanced weapons or numbers to commit genocide at that level. Adolph Hitler couldn't even kill 3 million Jews in 9 months in the 1940s.

I think it's ridiculous to accept this false historical fact. I just don't believe the Pakistani soldiers actually killed that many Bengalis.

[UnitedPak]

RoadRunner summed it up pretty nicely: http://www.defence.pk/forums/militar...de-claims.html

The 3 million figure is an insane estimation by Hindus. It doesnt even sound realistic whatsoever.

[hoodhood1]

Yes! It was all Indian Propaganda to gain sympathy for Bangladesh in the world and dominate them. But now the people of Bangladesh are finding for themselves the True Facts and have started to hate the Indians for the hovac they created pretending to be Pakistani Army.