PAF C-130 at our air port for hajj flight

[moha199]

Thanks for the pictures brothers

[TexasJohn]

Originally Posted by sonicboom

And who is paying for this trip? Is not this an extreme example of miss using the tax payer's money by using an Air Force plane for private trips?

My thoughts exactly. Sir. Is it REALLY OK for you guys to allow this? and even take pictures of this? Your tax dollars at work , huh?

So what happens in Pakistan if you call your congressman and complain?

[saad445566]

Originally Posted by TexasJohn

My thoughts exactly. Sir. Is it REALLY OK for you guys to allow this? and even take pictures of this? Your tax dollars at work , huh?

So what happens in Pakistan if you call your congressman and complain?

hahaha

Your congressman chooses are congressman...
Joke...

See a country in which there is no rule of law, 1000’s of political/religious parties, corruption, and supremacy of generals/politicians...
What can you expect from that society?
BUT
Having said that

Pakistan will rise soon.....trust me

We will hang all those politicians and corrupt people very soon....
You will visit Pakistan very soon as an immigrant...like we do to your country

[TOPGUN]

Originally Posted by TexasJohn

My thoughts exactly. Sir. Is it REALLY OK for you guys to allow this? and even take pictures of this? Your tax dollars at work , huh?

So what happens in Pakistan if you call your congressman and complain?

First things first understand the United States & Pakistan are to different worlds apart ! furthermore, this is not a pleasure trip it is a religious visit as one of our religious days of the year is here its call HAJ follwed by Eid which is a day away ... its better the PAF offical's using there own aircraft rather then flying in luxury in some pvt jet etc like others i do hope you can understand this thx... again its no one's business wat we do with our aircrafts ...

[TOPGUN]

Originally Posted by TexasJohn

My thoughts exactly. Sir. Is it REALLY OK for you guys to allow this? and even take pictures of this? Your tax dollars at work , huh?

So what happens in Pakistan if you call your congressman and complain?

Calling my congressman or yours won't do jack and you know this if you are a american which i take you are ! plz don't start talking about tax dollars we will be here all day and night as i will list till you fall asleep and wake up again and i will do it again for days... iam a pakistaniamerican too and trust me i know where my tax dollars are being spent so lets not go to that level first look our selves here in the states before tallking about others

[saad445566]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

Calling my congressman or yours won't do jack and you know this if you are a american which i take you are ! plz don't start talking about tax dollars we will be here all day and night as i will list till you fall asleep and wake up again and i will do it again for days... iam a pakistaniamerican too and trust me i know where my tax dollars are being spent so lets not go to that level first look our selves here in the states before tallking about others

Sir why are you taking this so serious?
He just asked a question.....think so.....

[skybolt]

Insha'allah.....

[TexasJohn]

Originally Posted by saad445566

Sir why are you taking this so serious?
He just asked a question.....think so.....

Quite correct. We ask a lot of questions here of our lawmakers and even our military personnel. But we all have to - none of us is perfect, and yes, while we do waste millions of tax dollars ourselves, there is always the room to question it, and there are oversight committees. That is why Nancy pelosi DID NOT get her plush airplane ( from USAF) even though she believed she absolutely had to have one - in the name of National Security, of course.

Yes, the PAF did use their own funds, and their own plane, but does that not belong to the taxpayers also?

I don't mean to be offensive, but corruption is the same no matter what the National flag.

[TOPGUN]

Originally Posted by saad445566

Sir why are you taking this so serious?
He just asked a question.....think so.....

Iam not serious at all bro i was just making a point which i can actually stand by . Because of the fact i live in the US i work hard and pay my taxes yet my tax dollars go to things that i don't approve of since are a waste of money and should be spent on other things in this county to help people rather then blowing it away. I have nothing against texasjohn i was just making a piont and as you can see i got no reply from him cuz iam right..

[TexasJohn]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

Iam not serious at all bro i was just making a point which i can actually stand by . Because of the fact i live in the US i work hard and pay my taxes yet my tax dollars go to things that i don't approve of since are a waste of money and should be spent on other things in this county to help people rather then blowing it away. I have nothing against texasjohn i was just making a piont and as you can see i got no reply from him cuz iam right..

Bud, I thought I answered your post while not directly addressing you. Sorry about the mixup.

Yes, I do agree we screw up a lot, but at least someone, somewhere, a common citizen is able to raise a stink about it, and be heard - enough to maike a difference. That's why I pointed out Nancy Pelosi. She did not get her " AirForce One" now did she?

All I am asking is, is there any oversight of what the Armed Forces do in Pakistan, or do they treat assets ( like C-130s) as their personal property? If not isn't it high time?

It's is after all the taxpayer's funds that are used to buy and maintain these things.

[PAFAce]

Originally Posted by TexasJohn

Yes, the PAF did use their own funds, and their own plane, but does that not belong to the taxpayers also?

I don't mean to be offensive, but corruption is the same no matter what the National flag.

The PAF and the Pak Army operate their own businesses on the side. PAF, for example, operates a domestic airline known as Shaheen (Eagle) Airlines (staff is mostly retired PAF), among other things (Shaheen Logistics, Shaheen Construction & Development etc). Profits from these are used to take care of retired personnel, programs, facilities, and likely the Hajj pilgrimage as well. It is no secret that the Services in Pakistan take care of their men, even after retirement, and the defence budget alone can't afford all that. It is one of the prime perks of serving in the Armed Forces in a country where life-long civil service in any other field generally leaves you in the lower-lower-middle class after retirement (unless you deal under the table, of course, which many do).

Of course, the debate now would turn to, if the PAF operates a domestic airline, won't that take away from the commercial sector? What about all those aspiring businessmen who now have to compete with a corporate version of the PAF? It is the classic Socialist catch, and I guess it is an entirely different debate. It is quite difficult for a "capitalistic" mind to grasp the concept. It's not ideal, but you can't build a strong Air Force in a country like Pakistan without this stuff.

[TexasJohn]

Originally Posted by PAFAce

The PAF and the Pak Army operate their own businesses on the side. PAF, for example, operates a domestic airline known as Shaheen (Eagle) Airlines (staff is mostly retired PAF), among other things (Shaheen Logistics, Shaheen Construction & Development etc). Profits from these are used to take care of retired personnel, programs, facilities, and likely the Hajj pilgrimage as well. It is no secret that the Services in Pakistan take care of their men, even after retirement, and the defence budget alone can't afford all that. It is one of the prime perks of serving in the Armed Forces in a country where life-long civil service in any other field generally leaves you in the lower-lower-middle class after retirement (unless you deal under the table, of course, which many do).

Of course, the debate now would turn to, if the PAF operates a domestic airline, won't that take away from the commercial sector? What about all those aspiring businessmen who now have to compete with a corporate version of the PAF? It is the classic Socialist catch, and I guess it is an entirely different debate. It is quite difficult for a "capitalistic" mind to grasp the concept. It's not ideal, but you can't build a strong Air Force in a country like Pakistan without this stuff.

Very interesting. It's pretty well institutionalised then. Appears to be a parallel govt. / economy. Am I correct?

[toxic_pus]

Originally Posted by TexasJohn

Very interesting. It's pretty well institutionalised then. Appears to be a parallel govt. / economy. Am I correct?

Read '

Military Inc - Inside Pakistan's Military Economy

Military Inc - Inside Pakistan's Military Economy

[PAFAce]

Originally Posted by TexasJohn

Very interesting. It's pretty well institutionalised then. Appears to be a parallel govt. / economy. Am I correct?

No, not that extreme. It's business, source of revenue, that is all. Things like Fauji (Army) Cement or Fauji Paint don't make parallel economies or governments. It's like the poppy sales before remembrance day, except it isn't, it's a lot more.

Like I said, the economic impacts of this can be debated. The Armed Forces do what they can to make sure their men are taken care of. Guess what? In times of war, we're glad they do. They don't have a $250 Billion defense budget to play around with.

Originally Posted by toxic_pus

Read 'Military Inc - Inside Pakistan's Military Economy' by Ms Ayesha Siddiqa.

It is pretty much what PAFAce says.

No, that was not what I was saying. You just couldn't let the chance go, could you? had to plug a poorly researched, extremely biased book. Anything that makes you happy man. This book tries to describe the Armed Forces of Pakistan as some kind of sick, profit-seeking entity that constantly wages war for money. How ridiculous that idea is isn't even worth getting into. When this is said about the Americans, everyone gets their panties all knotted up, but you can say anything about Pakistan and get away with it. The desire to view the Pakistan Army as some Nazi-esque evil organization is a pandemic in India, and is being well exported to the West as we speak. But, whatever makes you happy man, we are all evil, heck, we are satan himself.

[NEHA]

Awesome....