Dr Afia Siddiqui "The Grey Ghost Lady of Bagram"

[dabong1]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

No. I would only agree that she existed. Whether she was handed to the US, noone has proven. It's just as likely that she was murdered and someone is using it for their own agenda, than she was arrested off the streets and is being held in Guantanomo..

I think the more likely scenario is the she has been handed over to the US.....there is a proven track record of GoP of handing people over to the US.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Why would the US or anyone else focus in that direction, when they don't even know who Ridley is talking about? It's like you telling me that Satan or Shaytaan exists, since i don't deny it, or give another explanation for a bad event, then it must be that he exists. It's utterly illogical.


The US cannot disprove or offer an alternative explanation because they don't know what on earth Ridley is on about. And I'm inclined to agree with their position...

Well if there are allegation ,why not let the UN/redcross/amnesty have full and open access to these torture camps.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Though the US has come out with proven BS, so have the Mullah FM's, Ridley, and Moazzem Begg, none of whom have actually seen this person. Why would I take their words for it then?...

How is Mullah FM linked to Ridley, and Moazzem Begg.?
The US has lied on numerous occasions, Ridely and Moazzem Begg have not.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Possibly a relation, for example. A lover? A drunk tramp? It could be just about anything? For sure homicides do happen in Pakistan. ?...

Maybe aliens have abducted her,there is a chance of that also....any thing but the most probable reason that she has been handed to the US...there are endless examples of the the US kidnapping and torturing people.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

The Arabs were pretty quiet about the torture in fact. The torture only came to light when some US soldiers reported the incidents to newspapers.

It was well reported in various online media that torture was taking place well before the US got exposed with photo's of torture.
Strange thing is that when the links to these stories are given they are classed as propaganda websites by pro western people.

www.uruknet.info :: informazione dall'Iraq occupato :: news from occupied Iraq :: - it - -6

Here's one example of a website that has good info but becauce it is not endorsed by a media giant it is not taken as serious.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by dabong1

I think the more likely scenario is the she has been handed over to the US.....there is a proven track record of GoP of handing people over to the US.

There's a proven track record of GoP handing over known terrorists to the US, or those with possible connections to terrorist groups. Can you prove that something else is true?

Well if there are allegation ,why not let the UN/redcross/amnesty have full and open access to these torture camps.

Because they don't want to see how prisoners are treated, which as we all know, is pretty poorly and undignified.

However, this does not mean they are trying to hide this wailing grey lady.

How is Mullah FM linked to Ridley, and Moazzem Begg.?
The US has lied on numerous occasions, Ridely and Moazzem Begg have not.

Well, Ridley is just milking her conversion for all the money and fame she can get. Very undeservingly considering how many Afghan guides she managed to get killed whilst on her trek into Afghanistan.

From a Blogspot
In an August 2002 Islam Online interview Ridley is asked by her interviewer, "did you have any knowledge about Islam before your encounter with the Taliban"?

To which she replies, "nothing more factual than would fill the back of a postage stamp. Of course I'd subscribed to all the myths about women being subjugated and how it was an evil and violent religion full of fanatics."

But as Solent points out, this is a canard.

It it surprising to hear from IslamOnline that she knew very little of Islam before her encounter with the Taliban. Don't they look in their own files? According to this earlier IslamOnline article she was married [for five years] to a Palestinian, Daud Zaarur a.k.a. Abul Hakam (also sometimes transcribed as Dawood Zaarora and Abu Al Hakam ), who is "a former military commander of the Palestinian Fatah movement in Lebanon."

i'd count it as a lie.

Moazzem Begg not sure about, but it would have been nice if he didn't write a book about his ordeal to make money. He could have just kept a diary on the internet, but of course, when it comes to making money, anything can get sensationalized.

Maybe aliens have abducted her,there is a chance of that also....any thing but the most probable reason that she has been handed to the US...there are endless examples of the the US kidnapping and torturing people.

There are also endless examples of Al Qaeda kidnapping and beheading operatives that they considered might have been traitors. There are endless examples of homicides in Pakistan and other countries. Singling out the US for kidnapping her, is one of millions of possibilities. It's just being propagandized by an idiot (Ridley) who hasn't got the intelligence to realize she's doing the real, abused prisoners no good whatsoever.

It was well reported in various online media that torture was taking place well before the US got exposed with photo's of torture.
Strange thing is that when the links to these stories are given they are classed as propaganda websites by pro western people.

www.uruknet.info :: informazione dall'Iraq occupato :: news from occupied Iraq :: - it - -6

Here's one example of a website that has good info but becauce it is not endorsed by a media giant it is not taken as serious.

oh right..uruk.net..very neutral

[ejaz007]

RR,
Why are you bent on proving that either Dr. Aafia does not exist or Ms. Ridley is lying. When their has been a lot of proof to suggest that she does exist. As for her current location well only time shall tell that. I still believe she is somewhere in US custody.
Mr. Musharaf himself has stated on more than one occassiont that GOP handed over more than 600 people to US. Perhaps Dr. Aafia is one of them.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by ejaz007

RR,
Why are you bent on proving that either Dr. Aafia does not exist or Ms. Ridley is lying. When their has been a lot of proof to suggest that she does exist.

I think i've mentioned at least twice that this "wailing grey lady" has existed in the past. Why do you keep thinking that I said they she doe not exist.

What I doubt is that she's even in US custody, since 1) noone has presented any evidence, not even her family know 2) Yvonne Ridley said it, which probably means it's untrue.

Quote to me where I wrote that she does not exist?

As for her current location well only time shall tell that. I still believe she is somewhere in US custody.Mr. Musharaf himself has stated on more than one occassiont that GOP handed over more than 600 people to US. Perhaps Dr. Aafia is one of them.

PERHAPS. Perhaps, the world is flat too, though it is unlikely. PERHAPS the wailer is Dr Siddiqui, though it's unlikely.

Let's not obfuscate issues.

[jibzy]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

I think i've mentioned at least twice that this "wailing grey lady" has existed in the past. Why do you keep thinking that I said they she doe not exist.

What I doubt is that she's even in US custody, since 1) noone has presented any evidence, not even her family know 2) Yvonne Ridley said it, which probably means it's untrue.

Quote to me where I wrote that she does not exist?



PERHAPS. Perhaps, the world is flat too, though it is unlikely. PERHAPS the wailer is Dr Siddiqui, though it's unlikely.

Let's not obfuscate issues.

Your continued obsession with preserving the fictional world of facts has prompted me to respond. The reason this news is attracting more attention is quite obvious. A Pakistani WOMAN, educated at MIT just vanished one day. Now years down the road if some information though not very credible has surfaced about her whereabouts we need not to disregard it totally. What merits is there are hundred more cases like this around us and we end up doing nothing about it.

[muse]

Jibzy


Would it be ok with you if I used "Your continued obsession with preserving the fictional world of facts.." - it's a gem, a keeper

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by jibzy

Your continued obsession with preserving the fictional world of facts has prompted me to respond.

Do introduce yourself then. Good of you to come out, to tell us what is fiction and what is not.

The reason this news is attracting more attention is quite obvious. A Pakistani WOMAN, educated at MIT just vanished one day.

1) I don't see how it being a woman should make her more important than some of the men in there, nor how being educated at MIT makes her more important. Could be cultural I suppose.

2) She vanished, now Ridley & co are stating as fact she's being held in Bagram. Let's say my pet chihuahua disappeared one day, would it be being held in Bagram too?

Now years down the road if some information though not very credible has surfaced about her whereabouts we need not to disregard it totally.

What information has surfaced to suggest that she was "kidnapped by the Americans", except an accusation?

FYI, I'm not totally disregarding it, I'm saying there's 1 in a million chance it might be true, along with that she might have just been murdered and so on. What about all the innocent men being held there, under much worse conditions?

What merits is there are hundred more cases like this around us and we end up doing nothing about it.

There are hundreds more cases, and by diverting attention to a single fictitious woman, you (and ridley) are not helping any cause.

[jibzy]

Originally Posted by muse

Jibzy


Would it be ok with you if I used "Your continued obsession with preserving the fictional world of facts.." - it's a gem, a keeper

granted!

[jibzy]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Do introduce yourself then. Good of you to come out, to tell us what is fiction and what is not.

I ought not to mince words however who is us by the way, representing a school of thought, mind set or figure of speech?

1) I don't see how it being a woman should make her more important than some of the men in there, nor how being educated at MIT makes her more important. Could be cultural I suppose.

Yep partly cultural and more so because how many detainees can be MIT grads again! and how come they end up there? another open debate

2) She vanished, now Ridley & co are stating as fact she's being held in Bagram. Let's say my pet chihuahua disappeared one day, would it be being held in Bagram too?

Well Ridley is implying that may be the woman is Dr Afia, and by the way if chihuahua(s) disappear you can find another from Mexico. So we should stay on HUMANe level .. right!

What information has surfaced to suggest that she was "kidnapped by the Americans", except an accusation?

She may not have been kidnapped by Americans (the **** int brigade at his highness service can do lot more) however she is assumed / detained at bagram so thats why the American connection

FYI, I'm not totally disregarding it, I'm saying there's 1 in a million chance it might be true, along with that she might have just been murdered and so on. What about all the innocent men being held there, under much worse conditions?

Agreed! Lets take up the plight of other detainees too who is ignoring it

There are hundreds more cases, and by diverting attention to a single fictitious woman, you (and ridley) are not helping any cause.

Again my friend the fiction is obvious! or should it be woman fiction (wiction)?
Back to my previous comment lets talk about hundred unnamed souls

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by jibzy

Yep partly cultural and more so because how many detainees can be MIT grads again! and how come they end up there? another open debate

Why would they end up there?

Well Ridley is implying that may be the woman is Dr Afia, and by the way if chihuahua(s) disappear you can find another from Mexico. So we should stay on HUMANe level .. right!

Oh right. Ridley implies something based on some grey ghoul wailing out to her in the middle of the night, and you believe it. Funnily enough, I work for a lottery company, and you have just won $2 million dollars. PM me the details, and you'll be a very rich man!

She may not have been kidnapped by Americans (the **** int brigade at his highness service can do lot more) however she is assumed / detained at bagram so thats why the American connection

Assumed because Ridley says so. Oh yes, that's really all the proof we need. Believing compulsive liars and opportunists that get thousands of buckaroos off the back of killing some of their guides and converting while in the process making lavish amounts of money.

Again my friend the fiction is obvious! or should it be woman fiction (wiction)?
Back to my previous comment lets talk about hundred unnamed souls

It's a wonder you can't see it. Or that i'm explaining the obvious to you.

[dabong1]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

There's a proven track record of GoP handing over known terrorists to the US, or those with possible connections to terrorist groups. Can you prove that something else is true? :

I think you find the the vasy majority of people handed over by pakistan where innocent.....i think its 90% of people arrested over the WoT are been found to be innocent.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Because they don't want to see how prisoners are treated, which as we all know, is pretty poorly and undignified.

However, this does not mean they are trying to hide this wailing grey lady. :

At least you believe that the US commits human rights abuse..that good enough.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Well, Ridley is just milking her conversion for all the money and fame she can get. Very undeservingly considering how many Afghan guides she managed to get killed whilst on her trek into Afghanistan.

From a Blogspot
In an August 2002 Islam Online interview Ridley is asked by her interviewer, "did you have any knowledge about Islam before your encounter with the Taliban"?

To which she replies, "nothing more factual than would fill the back of a postage stamp. Of course I'd subscribed to all the myths about women being subjugated and how it was an evil and violent religion full of fanatics."

But as Solent points out, this is a canard.

It it surprising to hear from IslamOnline that she knew very little of Islam before her encounter with the Taliban. Don't they look in their own files? According to this earlier IslamOnline article she was married [for five years] to a Palestinian, Daud Zaarur a.k.a. Abul Hakam (also sometimes transcribed as Dawood Zaarora and Abu Al Hakam ), who is "a former military commander of the Palestinian Fatah movement in Lebanon."

i'd count it as a lie. :

So just becauce she was married to a muslim she must know everything about islam.......? Fatah by the way is a secular group.

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Moazzem Begg not sure about, but it would have been nice if he didn't write a book about his ordeal to make money. He could have just kept a diary on the internet, but of course, when it comes to making money, anything can get sensationalized. :

Musharaff could have done the same with his book......

Originally Posted by roadrunner

There are also endless examples of Al Qaeda kidnapping and beheading operatives that they considered might have been traitors. There are endless examples of homicides in Pakistan and other countries. Singling out the US for kidnapping her, is one of millions of possibilities. It's just being propagandized by an idiot (Ridley) who hasn't got the intelligence to realize she's doing the real, abused prisoners no good whatsoever.:

Ridley has been to afghanistan and met the taliban...have you?

Originally Posted by roadrunner

oh right..uruk.net..very neutral

Yes and CNN/FOX are totally neutral

You wanted a site that was reporting torture before the US media reported,i gave you the site and now you dont want to believe it...

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by dabong1

I think you find the the vasy majority of people handed over by pakistan where innocent.....i think its 90% of people arrested over the WoT are been found to be innocent.

There are some innocent people for sure. 90% is just a figure pulled out from the clouds.

At least you believe that the US commits human rights abuse..that good enough.

The whole world has seen it. No big discovery there.

So just becauce she was married to a muslim she must know everything about islam.......? Fatah by the way is a secular group.

If she married a Muslim man, and was not subjugated as a woman, she should have known that not all Muslim women are treated in the way she thought. It's obvious logic.

Musharaff could have done the same with his book......

You don't see me quoting his book as fact.

Ridley has been to afghanistan and met the taliban...have you?

Rumsfeld met Saddam. That didn't make it true that Iraq had WMD when he said so.

Yes and CNN/FOX are totally neutral

You wanted a site that was reporting torture before the US media reported,i gave you the site and now you dont want to believe it...

I didn't put a link to CNN or FOX. You're the one putting links to URUK.net, if i recall.

Whether it is true or not that some prisoners reported abuse or not is irrelevant really. If the US soldiers had not reported it, Arab media would not have picked up on it..but this is a small point and off topic.

[muneerkasri]

ahhhhhh

[Interceptor]

Woman scientist alive, in US custody

Monday, August 04, 2008
FBI linked Dr Aafia Siddiqi to al-Qaeda in Hub

By Rahimullah Yusufzai

WASHINGTON: Five years after her disappearance, an MIT-trained Pakistani neuroscientist, accused of belonging to an al-Qaeda cell based in Boston, is alive and in custody in Afghanistan, her family attorney said. “It has been confirmed by the FBI that Aafia Siddiqi is alive,” said Elaine Whitfield Sharp, a lawyer for Siddiqi’s family, who said she spoke to an FBI official on Thursday. “She is injured but alive, and she is in Afghanistan.”


The news sheds some light on one of the most intriguing local mysteries in the war on terrorism. Siddiqi, who lived in Roxbury and studied at Brandeis University as well as the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), disappeared with her three children while visiting her parents in Karachi in March 2003, around the same time the FBI announced that it wanted to
question her.

For five years, the US and Pakistani authorities have denied knowing her whereabouts. But human rights groups and Siddiqi’s relatives have long suspected that she had been captured in Karachi and secretly taken into custody.

If Siddiqi was arrested in Pakistan and turned over to the United States, it would highlight a crucial instance of intelligence cooperation between the two countries during a historic low point in their relations.

Earlier this week, US officials accused ISI of actively cooperating with tribal, pro-Taliban militants engaged in killing US troops in Afghanistan. In the White House meeting, President Bush confronted Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani with the intercepted phone calls between ISI and the militants.

Marvin Weinbaum, a Pakistan specialist at the Middle East Institute, said Pakistan has a history of reacting to pressure from the United States by publicly revealing that it had captured and turned over high-value terrorism suspects. Usually, such cooperation is kept as secret because of anti-American sentiments.

“But when it suits their purpose to advertise that they are cooperative with the US intelligence, all too often, someone of high profile is revealed to have been captured and turned over,” he said.

On Thursday, an FBI official visited Siddiqi’s brother in Houston to deliver the news that she was alive and in custody, Sharp said, but the visit raised as many questions as it answered. The FBI officials would not say who was holding her or reveal the fate of her three young, American-born children.

“If she is in US custody, they want to know where she is,” Sharp said. “Who has got her? And does she need medical care?” The FBI and the Justice Department declined to comment. Late last week, Siddiqi’s photo still appeared on the FBI’s list of people wanted for questioning.

Military documents declassified in recent years suggest that Siddiqi is suspected of having ties to several key terrorism suspects being held at the Guantanamo Bay detention centre. She is believed to have links to Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, alleged mastermind of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and allegedly arranged travel documents for another suspected terrorist. Papers in Guantanamo Bay also indicate that she married Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, an alleged al-Qaeda facilitator, who intended to blow up gas stations or poison water reservoirs in the United States.

The three men were among 14 high-value suspects brought to Guantanamo Bay in 2006 after years of secret detention in CIA prisons in eastern Europe. At the time, Bush said no suspects remained in so-called black sites, but human rights groups contradicted him, saying there were still suspects being held incommunicado at the US facilities such as the Bagram airbase detention centre in Afghanistan.

In a 2006 report, the Amnesty International listed Siddiqi as among a number of disappeared suspects in the war on terrorism. In recent weeks, Pakistani newspapers reported that a lawyer, Javed Iqbal Jaffery, had petitioned a Pakistani court for Siddiqi’s release and vowed to bring her detention to the UN human rights commissioner.

According to the reports, Jaffrey alleged that Siddiqi was jailed in Kabul after being held in Bagram; a British journalist reached a similar conclusion, based on interviews with prisoners released from Bagram.

Sharp said she believes those reports increased pressure on the US and Pakistani authorities to divulge more information. “I do not believe that they just found Aafia,” Sharp said. “I believe that she was there all along.”

Woman scientist alive, in US custody

JAY Musharraf!!!

[Interceptor]

Reading it is torture itself. I hope that Pakistani NGO's do a hard core protest against Musharraf's traitors acts against our people, I couldn't bear reading this article, they tortured her, that is against Geneva convention.