BVR capabilities of PAF

[HAIDER]

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In different forum i cam across comment of respectable defence Indian expert, he said Pakistani pilots are not trained for BVR nor they have real BVR capabilities . Do PAF adopt any particular course for BVR?
Your comments on this claim .
thanks.

[IceCold]

In different forum i cam across comment of respectable defence Indian expert, he said Pakistani pilots are not trained for BVR nor they have real BVR capabilities . Do PAF adopt any particular course for BVR?
Your comments on this claim .
thanks.

We were not BVR trained but this is no magic science we that we cannot get accustom too. Why do you think 500 AMRAAM are being acquired and i haven't counted the SD-10. Fact is that we lack this capability but it wont be long before PAF will fully develop its BVR capability.

[Myth_buster_1]

In different forum i cam across comment of respectable defence Indian expert, he said Pakistani pilots are not trained for BVR nor they have real BVR capabilities . Do PAF adopt any particular course for BVR?
Your comments on this claim .
thanks.

let them say what ever they wanna say.. thats just how they are brought up in their delusional society.. its pretty much common sense that the training program for AMRAAM has already been started with PAF pilots are being trained in US and and China for SD-10... the thing is... PAF tends to keep things classified while IAF likes to keep its fans mentally occupied in delusional land...

[HAIDER]

What is reality behind H2 and H4 ?.

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force has inducted H-4 Beyond Visual Range missile which could strike a target from a distance of 120 km without visually citing it, evading enemy radars.

"It is a step towards adding the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles to our arsenal for defensive purposes and to address the strategic imbalance in the region," Pakistan daily Dawn quoted PAF officials as saying.

The officials claimed that the missile was developed by the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM), which works in close collaboration with Pakistan Missile Organisation and the Air Weapons Complex.

"Three successful tests of H-4, with the latest conducted this year, produced satisfactory results leading to addition of arsenal in the fighter jets," they said, adding the missiles were modified version of the South African T-Darter BVR missiles. The PAF claims to have H-2 BVR missiles which could hit targets up to 60 km.

Reports of Pakistan seeking the BVR technology appeared in the South African media. In the face of protests from India, the South African government blamed "rogue" elements to collaborate with Pakistan to develop BVRs.

PAF officials said the H-4 missiles which was an infra-red device and comparable to that of the AA11, AA12 and Python 4 missiles of the IAF would be fitted on to the PAF's Mirage aircraft until the induction of new plane JF-17 Thunder, jointly developed by Pakistan and China, in 2006.

They said European and the US suppliers were currently not willing to share the technology with Pakistan but PAF was managing with whatever technology at its disposal.
Pak Air Force inducts BVR missiles-Pakistan-World-The Times of India

[echo 1]

We were not BVR trained but this is no magic science we that we cannot get accustom too. Why do you think 500 AMRAAM are being acquired and i haven't counted the SD-10. Fact is that we lack this capability but it wont be long before PAF will fully develop its BVR capability.

As far as I know we are accuring around 300 for now but ones the SD-10 is further developed then we could possibly purchase more and even start producing then ourselves.

[Myth_buster_1]

What is reality behind H2 and H4 ?.

reporting error.. H-2 and H-4 are long range glide bombs..
South africa currently operates R-Darter as its only BVR missile which they are about to retire, so their is no such thing as H-2 and H-4 BVR missile.. most probibly we will get A-Darter 5th gen ASRAAM from South africa..

[HAIDER]

Any truth ??

PAF Mirage III & V have already been experimented a lot by PAC, Dassault Aviation & SAGEM, including integrating BVR strike capability. Some of the experiments succeeded but turned out to be unfeasible in terms of cost & modification. Plus the airframe was/is waring out. It was better to go for new fighters & since PAC was working on JF-17 along with CAC the plans were scrapped.

So PAF only settled for the ROSSE-I & ROSE-II upgrades for Mirage-IIIs & ROSE-III for Mirage-V. ROSE-IV was to integrate MICA on Mirage-III but was canceled.

[Keysersoze]

In different forum i cam across comment of respectable defence Indian expert, he said Pakistani pilots are not trained for BVR nor they have real BVR capabilities . Do PAF adopt any particular course for BVR?
Your comments on this claim .
thanks.

Have you considered the following points?

1) Pakistani pilots fly with a lot of other airforces in the mid east. Most of whom have used the AMRAAM for a while now. Do they mysteriously forget when they return?

2)Some things do not become public knowledge for a while for security reasons For example the SD-10 may have been tested and used in conjuction with the Grifo on the f-7's

[araz]

I think it is a good thread and needs to be discussed seriously. PAF has no KNOWN capability of firing /training with BVRs. I have heard of various tests by PAF evaluating BVRs and a post above by Haider regarding trials of integration of Mica with Mirages may have been one of them.
PAF has also changed the radar of its PGs with longer ranged Grifo and there were news of limited capabilities to fire BVRs of the Darter/chinese missiles.
Another tidbit referenced to HKhan of PDF is that in the BVR competition for PAF was a Pakistani missile, however nothing more was divulged and we heard the news of PAF buying AMRAMS.
So it can be assumed(nothing more) that PAF has had various plans to acquire BVRs but the capabiltiy if at all is limited and with the advent of SD10 and AMRAM PAF will become a regular user of BVRs .
There have been plenty of indications that PAF has concrete training in defence against a BVR missile,which is what is important more so than the capability of firing one.
As we get more missiles PAF will device its own strategy dependant on the capabilities of the missiles
WaSalam
Araz

[Munir]

I agree that PAF pilots know more the button but there is a lot difference between getting occasional some info or having it in your basic syllabus. With now having the plane and bvr they can exploit it much better. There even developing parts so...

I doubt the SD10 is in any form part of the f7. You cannot have a few seconds track and lauch capability. BVR needs to expoit lofty profile to reach target. If you cannot see a lot further then max BVR range then you have not much advantage at all. Only a helpless plane will be shot down.

[HAIDER]

I noticed in many news articles, Pakistan will dispose Mirage in steps. If Mirage are upgraded to BVR then why decision has been taken to dispose. They should stay atleast 10 years. Because its known fact Pakistan is biggest Mirage carrier after France and has best know how about this piece of weapon.

[IceCold]

I noticed in many news articles, Pakistan will dispose Mirage in steps. If Mirage are upgraded to BVR then why decision has been taken to dispose. They should stay atleast 10 years. Because its known fact Pakistan is biggest Mirage carrier after France and has best know how about this piece of weapon.

The air frame of the mirages are declining fast and though new engines were bought from Libya, still the crash rate of the mirages could not be brought down. They have ended their life span and though they can fire a BVR, but still will be replaced by a much better platform the JF-17.

[Munir]

As far as I know the Mirages were cheap to expand (everyone is dumping them and Pak has enough experience in making own spare parts) but it is not true that it has any BVR a2a capability. It can attack ground targets (Babur, H2, H4) on longer distance but is surely misses radar or hardware to strike air targets. It is indeed in the planning to replace almost all mirages before 2015. Even the Rose Mirages are no longer extremely valuable cause we can strike a lot better with inhouse technology or J10/JF17...

Put it simple... maintaining a plane that is no longer in production is expensive... If you buy a new rolls royce then you might pay big time but alteast you will have support. Getting one of the first rolls royce means you have to search and hope to drive sometime...

[HAIDER]

Is AIM7F in PAF use ? and does it BVR ,range 40 km.?

[Nomi929]

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Is AIM7F in PAF use ? and does it BVR ,range 40 km.?

Range of AIM-7F is 50 KM.

It is being phased out in favor of the more advanced AIM-120 AMRAAM.

Its not in PAF use.