How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Wet Shirt Contest]

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indeed, thats a novel claim maybe he should join the PAF-FA program and advocate increasing the RCS of the plane to help the AOA as he puts it. lets see how the rest of Indians see his claim

You Are Free To Believe Whatever You Want, I Do Not Wish To Win Debate Here
Kind Regards

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------

BrahMos could take out most border air forces but its not like the Pakistanis are going to toss twigs back the PAF has the Raad 350km stand off cruise missile which has a longer range than the BrahMos not to mention as of right now raad is operational and can be used on the JF's, and Rose fighters that means IAF border air bases are screwed but Indian BMD system will also give defense against cruise missile and i'm sure AFB's will receive the interceptor missiles to intercept missiles like Babur and raad which leaves only the ballistic missiles to worry about but that will be on the call of the military as soon we will have nuclear powered and nuclear armed submarines operating in the Arabian sea awaiting 1st or 2nd strike orders.

Yes, They Can Target IAF Bases Near IR, But Tons Of IAF Bases Situated Deep Inside....Read The Post Above

[Black Widow]

1st PAF Was Never A Defensive Force....Even Today When IAF Enjoys Numerical And Technological Superiority.

Use Of Tactical Stand Off Weapons Will Be The Game Changer Here... As Most Of The PAF Bases Falls Under Brahmos Range. Sukhoi 30Mki Long Range With Refueling Capability 'll Help Here (Understand How). Pakistan Also Got Long Range Missiles (Ballistic) To Hit High Value Assets Deep Inside Indian Territory..... But Using Them Depends On What Political Objective Both Parties Want To Achieve...

In that case PAF has to be quick. The PAF have advantage of surprise attack. If PAF can destroy many Airbases and SAM PAF can become winner. If PAF can neutralize Indian Early warning System, then Su30 will be handicap for some time That time will be enough for PAF to take supermacy...

But If PAF missed it, They will be doomed. Su30 With subcomponents (Early warning and others) will be deadly. truly deadly.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

think of it as this if the air force bases at Bhatinda, Amritsar, Jaisalmer, Pathankot, and Jaipur are all wiped out the entire western states of Punjab and Rajasthan are screwed the PAF would be able to strike at well at Indian cities in the western sector though this is a highly unlikely scenario as Indians SAM's could more than hold the PAF until reinforcements are sent

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You must not forget this thread is about IAF Su30 and PAF. So please not bring Brahmos, ABM and other in discussion. Infact Indian SAMs too are out of consideration...

[joekrish]

If you try and draw a comparison chart between PAF and SU30 MKI the odds lie on the SU30 (one on one ofcource).

[The SC]

If you try and draw a comparison chart between PAF and SU30 MKI the odds lie on the SU30 (one on one ofcource).

SU30 MKI can you handle Chinese S 300 system?

[DARKY]

We Have To Wait And See What Upgrades Su30Mki 'll Get....The Best Thing Is To Equip Them With Tikhomirov NIIP AESA Based On Irbis-E, 5th Gen Avionic's Developed For Pak FA Including A IRST Optical/IR Search And Tracking System, And Higher Thrust Engines. I Do Not Expect Any Major Structural Changes For Lowering It's RCS.

Upgrade is with Zhuk-A from the other company.

[DARKY]

Lets not talk about Super MKI or further upgrades, This thread is about PAF countering Su30MKI.

IAF has 146 Su30MKI Vs PAF 50 FC1 + 60 F16 + 186 Mig21. 158 Mirage and other are ground attack bomber so discard them..
If PAF is aggressor (as mentioned by Paf internet warrior) 186 MiG21 is useless coz they are point defense fighter, they can't do Multi role attack. So in aggresive role PAF has just 110 fighter Vs Indian 146 Su30.

If PAF has defensive role, PAF can use its MiG21 along with its 110 fighter planes. In that case PAF has numerical supremacy. ALong with it PAF has advantage of SAM.

Conclusion: In Offensive role PAF has no match for Su30, In defensive role they have Numerical advantage and Advantage of SAM.

How effective those 186 are against the BVR equipped plane with powerful ESA radars ?
And does IAF only consists of Su30mki or should we throw Mig29+M2K in dustbin.. since we have MKI ?
Care to explain about the numerical advantage... and PAF SAM network too...as you have been claiming.

[Fieldmarshal]

Their are at-least five other "known operational" bases not on this map.

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Upgrade is with Zhuk-A from the other company.

The Zhuk AE Is From Phazotron And Is On Offer For Fulcrum-D / Fulcrum-F Upgrades And According To Some Reports Also For Su 30 Upgrades.

[joekrish]

SU30 MKI can you handle Chinese S 300 system?

Do the PAF own the S300?

[DARKY]

In that case PAF has to be quick. The PAF have advantage of surprise attack. If PAF can destroy many Airbases and SAM PAF can become winner. If PAF can neutralize Indian Early warning System, then Su30 will be handicap for some time That time will be enough for PAF to take supermacy...

But If PAF missed it, They will be doomed. Su30 With subcomponents (Early warning and others) will be deadly. truly deadly.

Have you see the IAF stations on map ?
And the LRTRs Installed there ?
Sorry but they tried the same thing in 71 and Its 2012 now.

[Irfan Baloch]

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You must not forget this thread is about IAF Su30 and PAF. So please not bring Brahmos, ABM and other in discussion. Infact Indian SAMs too are out of consideration...

thanks for saying this.
maybe your point will get across.

Brahmos as far as I know is not anti aircraft missile so discussing it Vs. F-16 or JF-17 is pointless.

talking cruise or ballistic missiles will take the threshold to another level and thats out of the scope of the discussion. the hypothetical synario is of a CAP of either side coming across a hostile or an Indian RIF in Pakistan.

Pakistan's ground based air defence system has been kept out of the discussion for the purpose of simplicity and conciseness. they are not being ignored though.

[DARKY]

The Zhuk AE Is From Phazotron And Is On Offer For Fulcrum-D / Fulcrum-F Upgrades And According To Some Reports Also For Su 30 Upgrades.

Its the likely candidate and the defense Minister also spoke about it once.

[DARKY]

thanks for saying this.
maybe your point will get across.

Brahmos as far as I know is not anti aircraft missile so discussing it Vs. F-16 or JF-17 is pointless.

talking cruise or ballistic missiles will take the threshold to another level and thats out of the scope of the discussion. the hypothetical synario is of a CAP of either side coming across a hostile or an Indian RIF in Pakistan.

Pakistan's ground based air defence system has been kept out of the discussion for the purpose of simplicity and conciseness. they are not being ignored though.

But they are supposed to be launched on PAF air bases where they keep JF-17/F-16 and rest.. aren't they.
Many people even the original poster bring PAF SAM capability into equation.. an that's quiet obvious since they are add another dimension to aerial combat and keeping them aside is a suicide for any air assault ... But seems like those rules don't apply for IAF and IA SAMs for you and the original poster does it ?

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

Do the PAF own the S300?

Yes but its classified they can't leak secrets on Internet you know... RAW/IB/CBI etc and CID is also watching.

[indushek]

But they are supposed to be launched on PAF air bases where they keep JF-17/F-16 and rest.. aren't they.
Many people even the original poster bring PAF SAM capability into equation.. an that's quiet obvious since they are add another dimension to aerial combat and keeping them aside is a suicide for any air assault ... But seems like those rules don't apply for IAF and IA SAMs for you and the original poster does it ?

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------



Yes but its classified they can't leak secrets on Internet you know... RAW/IB/CBI etc and CID is also watching.

What PAF has S300 ???

[notorious_eagle]

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think of it as this if the air force bases at Bhatinda, Amritsar, Jaisalmer, Pathankot, and Jaipur are all wiped out the entire western states of Punjab and Rajasthan are screwed the PAF would be able to strike at well at Indian cities in the western sector though this is a highly unlikely scenario as Indians SAM's could more than hold the PAF until reinforcements are sent

You cannot knock out an airbase off its operational capability with a couple of strikes with cruise missiles or air planes. As soon as there is a strike, technicians start work on repairing the facilities to get them back online ASAP. You need constant bombardment which neither side has the capability to pursue. Major air bases in both the nations have hardened shelters which shields the aircraft from any bombardment. NATO conducted aerial raids and cruise missile strikes for almost 30 days against Iraq during Desert Storm, but Iraqi command and control was still intact. It's no child's play to take out a major air base; you need a lot of planning, fire power and most importantly luck on your side.