Russia Is Willing 2 Sell Fighter Planes

[MastanKhan]

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Hi,

As much as I know of the russians, pakistan should always keep the talks of defence procurement / offensive weapons away from the table. The russians have new found wealth now and they don't look at us with any greast affection. The only thing that we can ask for is help in upgrading the steel mill at karachi---we can also ask for setting up joint ventures or other industry that the russian businesses can run and operate on their own. Asking for the helicopter gunships would be ok as well---other than that leave it at wait and see kind of attitude. Let them approach us at their discretion and a time of their chosing.

[Cheetah786]

Hi,

Pakistani money has no value when it comes to purchasing defence equipment except from china or france. It is a very bad idea, a very bad strategy to throw money at someone's face and ask them to give you weapons. It is indecent, tasteless and rude. It is un-cultured and russians of all people could care less about our money. There has to be dignity in all relations---it is better to make friends, have an understanding and ask for help---one has to remember that having relations with u s and russia

Iam totally speach less this answer just blows me away.

[MastanKhan]

Cheetah,

You ought to be---rudeness is such a disgusting manner of doing business with people from whom you want buy the defence related equipment that will save the behind of the citizens, the nation and the country one day. What " stupid school of idiotic national defence and profane throw at your face strategic defence show cash up front procurement studies school" did you go to?

CNN showed a tape of a pakistani buyer---he had been to the above mentioned school---an army major at that also---he was here to buy stinger type missiles in the 90's thru black market. It was a sting operation and whole of the conversation was on camera----the conversation that he had with the seller was full of profanity and vulgar throw at your face money type conversation. He didnot get too far.

Now try doing that to the present day russians.

[z9-ec]

Cheetah,

You ought to be---rudeness is such a disgusting manner of doing business with people from whom you want buy the defence related equipment that will save the behind of the citizens, the nation and the country one day. What " stupid school of idiotic national defence and profane throw at your face strategic defence show cash up front procurement studies school" did you go to?

CNN showed a tape of a pakistani buyer---he had been to the above mentioned school---an army major at that also---he was here to buy stinger type missiles in the 90's thru black market. It was a sting operation and whole of the conversation was on camera----the conversation that he had with the seller was full of profanity and vulgar throw at your face money type conversation. He didnot get too far.

Now try doing that to the present day russians.

I'm amazed to see someone respond like that. It's not like we are throwing our money on their face and asking for cooperation.

As I have said before, China and Russia are strong allies which will eventually motivate Russian think tanks to reconsider Pakistan's relationship with Russia.

By the way, it was because of China the Russian president approved the re-export to 6 countries and the visit of former Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov to Pakistan for strenghtening ties between the two countries. Nevertheless, it is an optimistic approach to a future relationship with Russia in the long run considering the past.

Regarding the CNN, I have never come across such a broadcast on CNN and have you forgotten the Charles Wilson era?? why would we go buy it from the black market?

Finally, I expect some respect from forum members while talking about our national defence affairs and schools. They are considered to be one of the best in this world.

[su-47]

This thread is two years old, no deal is imminent.

But I think this coming together of Pakistan and Russia is pretty inevitable. With India moving towards the US, Pakistan will be moving in the opposite direction. Everyone's simply waiting to see who India goes with for the 126 fighter aircraft deal. If India goes with the US, which I think they will, Pakistan will ask for, and recieve advanced Russian equipment.

Great chance for us to capitalize on account of the India-US relations. We should go for the SU-30 if the J-10 deal isn't finalized by the time India opts for F-16s/F-18s.

India is considering moving away from the policy of 'buying from russia only', but that doesnt mean we r moving away from Russia. In terms of money spent, we r buying more from Russia than ever before. lets just look at a few orders Indo-Russian deals:

1) PAKFA - India is expected to pump in billions of dollars AND purchase PAKFA once it is ready

2) SU-30 MKI - India ordered 40 more recently and its probable that we'll order more, especially if MRCA or LCA is delayed.

3) T-90 MBTs - Ordered 650 and producing another 1000 of them under license. this number could rise.

4) Akula 2 - we r paying the russians to build them. we'll be leasing 3 and probably will buy them if they meet requirements.

5) Frigates - india is buying new frigates from Russia (i forgot the model)

6) Gorshkov - paying them over a billion dollars to refit the ship and buying the Mig-29ks

All these are deals which are signed, and total over $10 bn. If we give them MRCA deal, thats another $10bn.

Even if we dont give them any other deals, the aforementioned deals show that we r doing more business with Russia than ever before. But, as we have access to more suppliers now, we r diversifying our arms purchases, partly due to some delays by russia. Doesnt mean we r neglecting the Russians. they r still our no 1 suppliers.

But if the Russians decide to sell advanced aircraft to pakistan, then India will move away from Russia. and that will be a seriou blow to russian arms exporters.

[MOSABJA]

I think besides the sales of arms we should look for having good relations with Russia in order to reduce our dependence on USA which is daily threatening our NUKES.

Russia too would not hesitate in having good relations with pakistan since they know Pakistans importance Viz a Vis Afghanistan and Centasia and also because india is turning towards US.

[MOSABJA]

I think besides the sales of arms we should look for having good relations with Russia in order to reduce our dependence on USA which is daily threatening our NUKES.

Russia too would not hesitate in having good relations with pakistan since they know Pakistans importance Viz a Vis Afghanistan and Centasia and also because india is turning towards US.

[Cheetah786]

MastanKhan;130857]Cheetah,

You ought to be---rudeness is such a disgusting manner of doing business with people from whom you want buy the defence related equipment that will save the behind of the citizens, the nation and the country one day. What " stupid school of idiotic national defence and profane throw at your face strategic defence show cash up front procurement studies school" did you go to?
Now try doing that to the present day russians

If i were to respond back the way you did there will be no difference between u and I clearly shows your education level.
One has to go to school to understand 1 read my post again and understand it.

CNN showed a tape of a pakistani buyer---he had been to the above mentioned school---an army major at that also---he was here to buy stinger type missiles in the 90's thru black market. It was a sting operation and whole of the conversation was on camera----the conversation that he had with the seller was full of profanity and vulgar throw at your face money type conversation. He didnot get too far.

he didn't get to far because it was a sting operation he was done from the day one.they wouldn't have changed there mind about arresting him if his language was cultured or money was in travelers chq.
second he wasn't a buyer he was a smuggler buyers don't make deals in the back alleys smugglers and thugs do but thats beside the point.

Now about the money part if u were to approach a corporation or a country and ask them to give u top of the line stuff but for free how far will u get.


but iam sure if musharaf and Dr singh were to approach the Americans to buy top of the line fighters and Dr singh was to offer money in exchange for the product and mushraf was to offer manners and cultured language we all no musharaf will come back successful while Dr singh will come back empty handed.

Indians talked about putting out a tender 500million years ago to buy 126 fighter there is no corporation in the world or country that isn't willing to sell it to them u wanna no why cause it will bring cold hard cash in billions to them.
Reason Pakistan cant pay for any thing is most business in Pakistan are owned by politicians or there friends all the big landlords in Pakistan are politicians they rather come to the west and beg for things then to pay for it paying for it means they will have to start paying taxes them self.they barrow money from the banks to start a business by the billions which almost all of them never pay it back.Most borrowed money from the world banks or IMF ends up in politicians account and Pakistan ends up with the debt.

if taxes were collected from all and loans paid back as promised we don't need the worlds hand outs.with that kind of money coming in we can buy or produce any thing.

[circuitbaba]

Some body mentioned the range of F-16
and how its gonna hit..Flanker even if it hits
Block 52 will carry AIm-120C5 for PAF
60 nm...convert it to km its 111.8 km
Flankers primary BVR is

R-77RVV-AE has a range of 100km ....(Check ur site Bharat Rakshak)
oR
R-27RE1/TE1 with a range of 70 km....(Check ur site Bharat Rakshak)

APG-68 (V9) radar picks up a 3m square target at 120km ....while Su-30 has a a RCS of 5m square....No.BARS radar abroad...ur Flanker....has range of 120km wit a F-16's RCS

so man i think both will see each other but F-16 will have first shot due to its C5

[SABRE]

Didn't find proper thread so decided to post here instead.

The word out there is that Pakistan is buying Mi-35 Hind attack/transport helicopters from Russia & a team of pilots is already in training. There is already a single Mi-35 unit with PA for evaluation purposes.

Remember this is a rumor so treat as one.

[jupiter2007]

Rumor: Pakistan has FT-2000 and getting S-300 from ukraine or other ex-soviet countries.

[Moscow]

Rumor: Pakistan has FT-2000 and getting S-300 from ukraine or other ex-soviet countries.

russia has already upgraded and tested the s-300 to s-400 platform which india might also upgrade its s300 if i am not mistaken.

[Moriarty]

Didn't find proper thread so decided to post here instead.

The word out there is that Pakistan is buying Mi-35 Hind attack/transport helicopters from Russia & a team of pilots is already in training. There is already a single Mi-35 unit with PA for evaluation purposes.

Remember this is a rumor so treat as one.

Hi friends,
After browsing around in many threads and reading posts by all of you here, I have noticed that Russian military hardware is considered to be substandard to the ones you get from US or other western countries. And India has mostly Russian military equipment, which according to your posts is substandard.
Then why is that you people are clamoring for Russian planes if India decides to go for non-Russian planes for its MMRCS tender? Compared to the F-16s and the Chinese planes like the J-10s, which clearly are copies of Russian planes, the Sukhoi flankers are considered to be inferior. It beats me to see on one hand you all rubbish the Russian tech, while on the other you are willing to invest in joint ventures with Chinese who basically use Russian tech and now you want to buy planes from Russia?

~Moriarty

[Moscow]

Hi friends,
After browsing around in many threads and reading posts by all of you here, I have noticed that Russian military hardware is considered to be substandard to the ones you get from US or other western countries. And India has mostly Russian military equipment, which according to your posts is substandard.
Then why is that you people are clamoring for Russian planes if India decides to go for non-Russian planes for its MMRCS tender? Compared to the F-16s and the Chinese planes like the J-10s, which clearly are copies of Russian planes, the Sukhoi flankers are considered to be inferior. It beats me to see on one hand you all rubbish the Russian tech, while on the other you are willing to invest in joint ventures with Chinese who basically use Russian tech and now you want to buy planes from Russia?

~Moriarty

sir the j10 is more close to the western planes actually as per the information i have.
yes its true many members here just consider the russian tech to be inferior or bad compared to the west its because they do not have these with them,
its a way of saying that whatever i do not have is bad and inferior to whatever i have.

but i personally after speaking to many intelligent and mature members here in this very forum i came to know that they really hold russian tech in high regard its some of the emotional and teen members whose heart rules over their minds that they fail to see the world the way it is.

[ahmeddsid]

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sir the j10 is more close to the western planes actually as per the information i have.
yes its true many members here just consider the russian tech to be inferior or bad compared to the west its because they do not have these with them,
its a way of saying that whatever i do not have is bad and inferior to whatever i have.

but i personally after speaking to many intelligent and mature members here in this very forum i came to know that they really hold russian tech in high regard its some of the emotional and teen members whose heart rules over their minds that they fail to see the world the way it is.

Yes J10 is part inspired from the IAI Lavi.